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Old
08-22-2011, 09:04 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
if BOB emerges as a superstar and takes the #1 spot in net, Bryz will go to the KHL for icetime/similar pay.

he holds cards, not all of them.

It was painful to move gagne, but they got it done...Bryz is no different.

4 years of good play and then he will slide?! and you think vokoun is good for the next 3 years??? double standard big time.
Vokoun has already shown that he is aging well, and you'll notice I don't want him to have the cap hit that Bryz has...so no, there is no double standard there, much less a big one. There's a difference between a 35 year old goalie making 4ish million (1.5 in reality, in this case), and one making 5.6 million. Considering how close to the cap the Flyers always are, every dollar counts.

We don't know how Bryz will age, and no matter how well it is, it's doubtful he'll be worth 5.6 mil. But hey, it's the Flyers, so instead of managing the cap properly and responsibly they'll just compensate by doing something else stupid.

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08-22-2011, 09:19 PM
  #152
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Vokoun has already shown that he is aging well, and you'll notice I don't want him to have the cap hit that Bryz has...so no, there is no double standard there, much less a big one. There's a difference between a 35 year old goalie making 4ish million (1.5 in reality, in this case), and one making 5.6 million. Considering how close to the cap the Flyers always are, every dollar counts.

We don't know how Bryz will age, and no matter how well it is, it's doubtful he'll be worth 5.6 mil. But hey, it's the Flyers, so instead of managing the cap properly and responsibly they'll just compensate by doing something else stupid.
but we do know in the next 5 years he will be a steal on that contract...

you cant have a contract that is "good" in its entirety. players get better, peak, and decline...

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08-22-2011, 09:24 PM
  #153
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Even if Vokoun was a better option, Holmgren clearly had orders from Snider to get a deal done with Bryzgalov because even if Vokoun would have worked out, in 3 years, we're looking for another #1 goalie.

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08-22-2011, 09:29 PM
  #154
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Even if Vokoun was a better option, Holmgren clearly had orders from Snider to get a deal done with Bryzgalov because even if Vokoun would have worked out, in 3 years, we're looking for another #1 goalie.
holy ****, a post that makes sense!

yes, this is exactly my point. And the point Im saying about "risk" is that in 3 years i'd bet you dont find a bryz level goalie in UFA.



(well that was one point...the other is that you cannot call homer stupid for picking one of two completely viable options)

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08-22-2011, 09:38 PM
  #155
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but we do know in the next 5 years he will be a steal on that contract...

you cant have a contract that is "good" in its entirety. players get better, peak, and decline...
I wouldn't exactly call him a steal at 5.6 million dollars. For that money, he should be on the same level as Thomas, Luongo, Brodeur or Miller. To justify that cost he needs to win a Vezina, or at least get nominated a couple more times. Here's hoping that he does.

As for the peak, we are probably looking at it. Most of his contract with us will likely be the decline. The question is, how rapid or slow will it be? That will be the factor that determines how this signing is viewed years from now. The downside is, if he pulls a Turco or Huet and suddenly drops off...ugh.

My point is, signing goaltenders until they're 40 at a high cap hit is risky and so far, sure hasn't looked worth it. I'm sure Vancouver is wondering what the end game with Luongo will be, and NYI probably wish DiPietro would go away. Even Brodeur has a couple question marks. There's little reason to believe that Bryz will do any better.

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08-22-2011, 09:53 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I wouldn't exactly call him a steal at 5.6 million dollars. For that money, he should be on the same level as Thomas, Luongo, Brodeur or Miller. To justify that cost he needs to win a Vezina, or at least get nominated a couple more times. Here's hoping that he does.

As for the peak, we are probably looking at it. Most of his contract with us will likely be the decline. The question is, how rapid or slow will it be? That will be the factor that determines how this signing is viewed years from now. The downside is, if he pulls a Turco or Huet and suddenly drops off...ugh.

My point is, signing goaltenders until they're 40 at a high cap hit is risky and so far, sure hasn't looked worth it. I'm sure Vancouver is wondering what the end game with Luongo will be, and NYI probably wish DiPietro would go away. Even Brodeur has a couple question marks. There's little reason to believe that Bryz will do any better.
But you can only plug holes so long...

Bryz is one of the best goalies to be hitting UFA in a while. Let's say you HAVE to sign him (gun to your head)

What length/price would you accept?

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08-22-2011, 09:57 PM
  #157
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But you can only plug holes so long...

Bryz is one of the best goalies to be hitting UFA in a while. Let's say you HAVE to sign him (gun to your head)

What length/price would you accept?
5 years, 5 mil. I'd go about it with some sort of subtlety and grace, instead of essentially handing him a blank check from the start and giving up all negotiating leverage by blabbing my intentions to the media and pursuing him in a heavy-handed manner.

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08-22-2011, 10:36 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Even if Vokoun was a better option, Holmgren clearly had orders from Snider to get a deal done with Bryzgalov because even if Vokoun would have worked out, in 3 years, we're looking for another #1 goalie.
Are we? Or do we already have him signed to an ELC?

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08-22-2011, 10:42 PM
  #159
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Are we? Or do we already have him signed to an ELC?
I'm assuming he gets traded. Right or wrong, Snider obviously either didn't think Bobrovsky is the answer, or didn't feel like waiting to find out.

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08-23-2011, 08:28 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ
Even if Vokoun was a better option, Holmgren clearly had orders from Snider to get a deal done with Bryzgalov because even if Vokoun would have worked out, in 3 years, we're looking for another #1 goalie.
Or, if Bryz gets a DP type injury next year we are looking for another #1 goalie anyway. Or maybe he isn't as good as everyone thinks he is. I don't entirely believe this line of thinking but the questions about Bryz vs. Tippet's system shouldnt just be dismissed. Bryz still has to prove that he is THIS good for real. And we just took a massive gamble on that.

Like I said, whats so bad about having to look for a goalie in 2-3 years? And that's assuming that Bob won't pan out, which is certainly a gloomy outlook. This organization doesn't need to paint themselves into a corner.

It's just more of the kneejerk reactions this organization makes every year. Goaltending was absolutely an issue but we went from spending nothing for years on the position to 50+ million over almost a decade, with a good ole NMC to boot. There is an area in between. Just the same as how we had small/weak wingers was an issue - so we weakened the center position badly in order to compensate. Holmgren is a total overreacter

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08-23-2011, 08:53 AM
  #161
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Or, if Bryz gets a DP type injury next year we are looking for another #1 goalie anyway. Or maybe he isn't as good as everyone thinks he is. I don't entirely believe this line of thinking but the questions about Bryz vs. Tippet's system shouldnt just be dismissed. Bryz still has to prove that he is THIS good for real. And we just took a massive gamble on that.

Like I said, whats so bad about having to look for a goalie in 2-3 years? And that's assuming that Bob won't pan out, which is certainly a gloomy outlook. This organization doesn't need to paint themselves into a corner.

It's just more of the kneejerk reactions this organization makes every year. Goaltending was absolutely an issue but we went from spending nothing for years on the position to 50+ million over almost a decade, with a good ole NMC to boot. There is an area in between. Just the same as how we had small/weak wingers was an issue - so we weakened the center position badly in order to compensate. Holmgren is a total overreacter
I'm not disagreeing with you about what should have been done, I was not opposed to Vokoun on a decent contract. This is a lot of money to sit on in case he does get hurt, but the term was obviously because the team got tired or worrying about it every single year. I don't agree with 9 years either with a no-move, but I think the Flyers have proven by now that when it's time for someone to leave, they're gone.

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08-23-2011, 12:11 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you about what should have been done, I was not opposed to Vokoun on a decent contract. This is a lot of money to sit on in case he does get hurt, but the term was obviously because the team got tired or worrying about it every single year. I don't agree with 9 years either with a no-move, but I think the Flyers have proven by now that when it's time for someone to leave, they're gone.
It's one thing to move a couple young players with long contracts, or Gagne when he's got 1 year left.

If Bryz goes bad, the Flyers are F'd unless they find an idiot trading partner.

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08-23-2011, 12:32 PM
  #163
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Yeah, while it's nice to have a goalie, it's not nice to have essentially no means of escape if something goes wrong.

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08-23-2011, 12:33 PM
  #164
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It's one thing to move a couple young players with long contracts, or Gagne when he's got 1 year left.

If Bryz goes bad, the Flyers are F'd unless they find an idiot trading partner.
Atlanta, nashville and montreal say hello!

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08-23-2011, 01:27 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you about what should have been done, I was not opposed to Vokoun on a decent contract. This is a lot of money to sit on in case he does get hurt, but the term was obviously because the team got tired or worrying about it every single year. I don't agree with 9 years either with a no-move, but I think the Flyers have proven by now that when it's time for someone to leave, they're gone.
QFT

and i dont think its fair to expect an injury...vokoun or BOB could just as easily get injured...

(i get it tho, we dont want dipietro 2.0)

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08-23-2011, 01:41 PM
  #166
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QFT

and i dont think its fair to expect an injury...vokoun or BOB could just as easily get injured...

(i get it tho, we dont want dipietro 2.0)
Yeah, but there's a difference..if we had Vokoun and he got injured..no worries. Short contract. Same for Bob, plus he's very young. If anything goes wrong with Bryz, we are out of luck.

As for making people go away...that hasn't really worked out well. We didnt need to force Richards or Carter out since their clauses hadn't kicked in. When we forced Gagne out, the return was more or less whatever garbage Yzerman had in the dumpster that he felt like parting with. You could expect something similar if we ever have to make Bryz go away.

For the record, I don't EXPECT an injury. I've never said that. I'm just distressed at the fact that if a major one occurs we could easily be screwed.

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08-23-2011, 02:05 PM
  #167
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Yeah, but there's a difference..if we had Vokoun and he got injured..no worries. Short contract. Same for Bob, plus he's very young. If anything goes wrong with Bryz, we are out of luck.

As for making people go away...that hasn't really worked out well. We didnt need to force Richards or Carter out since their clauses hadn't kicked in. When we forced Gagne out, the return was more or less whatever garbage Yzerman had in the dumpster that he felt like parting with. You could expect something similar if we ever have to make Bryz go away.

For the record, I don't EXPECT an injury. I've never said that. I'm just distressed at the fact that if a major one occurs we could easily be screwed.
and i get that, it'd suck if bryz got injured... its just part of the draw back of long contracts (which are what players want to compensate for a lower cap-hit)

we'd totally get garbage for bryz (but we gave up garbage to get him)...
im just saying its not like we will end up with bob playing #1 and bryz draining 5.5mil for 3 years


I promise you this

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08-23-2011, 03:02 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Atlanta, nashville and montreal say hello!
I'm sure Atlanta will be in the market for a goalie in the near future since they don't have one. price and Rinne do need backups.

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08-23-2011, 04:21 PM
  #169
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Atlanta, nashville and montreal say hello!
Atlanta?

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08-23-2011, 04:42 PM
  #170
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Bad GM's getting fleeced. Wasn't necessarily talking about goal tenders

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08-23-2011, 04:46 PM
  #171
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I'm sure Atlanta will be in the market for a goalie in the near future since they don't have one. price and Rinne do need backups.
Lucky for Winnipeg they have Pavelec, otherwise they'd be in the market too!

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