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How does your league weed out ringers?

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Old
08-23-2011, 04:22 PM
  #26
WhipNash27
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Our league has so many players who play down two or three levels. It's awful. Even the guy who runs the league is a B league player who plays on a C2 team (which would be a D team if not for him and a few of his B league buddies). Just about every C level team has a B or A leaguer on it. It's one thing if you play down a level, but two or three just makes no sense. How can any of these guys enjoy beating up on inferior players?

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08-23-2011, 04:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Our league has so many players who play down two or three levels. It's awful. Even the guy who runs the league is a B league player who plays on a C2 team (which would be a D team if not for him and a few of his B league buddies). Just about every C level team has a B or A leaguer on it. It's one thing if you play down a level, but two or three just makes no sense. How can any of these guys enjoy beating up on inferior players?
Don't know but sometimes I ask them in a not too nice fashion.

Most of the time I wager that the inferior players on his team want the ringer to be there.

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08-23-2011, 05:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Don't know but sometimes I ask them in a not too nice fashion.

Most of the time I wager that the inferior players on his team want the ringer to be there.
Oh yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that it creates an unfair advantage for one team. Plus even if you're friends with people on the team, how much fun can it be to play people who aren't even close to the same skill level as you?

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08-23-2011, 05:14 PM
  #29
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My league does nothing to weed out ringers specifically. It just rebalances the teams a few times each season. If one team is dominating, they'll get bumped up and eventually find a place where the games are close and the competition is good. If a team is good because of 1 or 2 guys, they'll get bumped above their level but that guy will still keep the games close and probably still be playing below his level.

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08-23-2011, 05:16 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Oh yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that it creates an unfair advantage for one team. Plus even if you're friends with people on the team, how much fun can it be to play people who aren't even close to the same skill level as you?
I would guess that is a love of looking better than anyone else trumping the love of hockey in a lot of cases but in some they are begged to play on the team.

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08-23-2011, 07:43 PM
  #31
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How do you define a ringer? Anyone who is too good for the division they're playing in? A good player who subs in from time to time?

In the leagues I play in they employ a very basic rule where if you play for more than one team they can't be more than two divisions apart. The rule is no where near perfect as someone who can hang in division 5 can't necessarily dominate division 8. In the playoffs only players with a certain amount of games are eligible to play, and everyone who plays for your team is required to register and put on a helmet sticker with a number to help confirm who they are.

Registering is not a hassle at all so if you bring out a sub here and there who's really good there isn't much stopping you.

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08-23-2011, 08:03 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by McDugan View Post
Well, it's different for goalies. It's not like a younger goalie gets to put his youth to great advantage. (He's not skating all over gaining a step on older skaters, etc.) If there aren't any 40+ y/o goalies, then you're faced with a choice between having no goalie on one or more teams or bringing in someone who doesn't meet the age requirement. Pretty obvious to me which is the better option.
Plus there's the sub factor.

Just because you roster a 40+ y/o goalie doesn't mean he's going to be available every night.

Eventually you'll get a game where he calls the captain an hour or two before game time saying "I've got to work late tonight, can't make it," and then what do you do? Forfeit the game and tell both teams they can't play because the only available goalies playing earlier games at the rink that evening are 35 and under?

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08-23-2011, 08:19 PM
  #33
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My league is probably 80 teams spread across 7 divisions. The only restriction is that you have to play a minimum number of regular season games to play in the playoffs. The talent level varies hugely within each division, so you get teams that win 1-2 games and teams that only lose 1-2 games, with no real incentive to move up or down a division.

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Old
08-23-2011, 09:28 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDugan View Post
Well, it's different for goalies. It's not like a younger goalie gets to put his youth to great advantage. (He's not skating all over gaining a step on older skaters, etc.) If there aren't any 40+ y/o goalies, then you're faced with a choice between having no goalie on one or more teams or bringing in someone who doesn't meet the age requirement. Pretty obvious to me which is the better option.
That's true and I did think of that, but it's very unstructured. I mean I could call anyone I want to play goal at any time. I'll guarantee you there's no over 40 goalie substitute list.

I get it. I just think it would be a bit more fun and guys would take it more seriously if there were a bit more control/structure. They don't keep stats, post game scores, no sub lists, etc. It's basically pickup hockey.

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08-23-2011, 09:41 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDugan View Post
Well, it's different for goalies. It's not like a younger goalie gets to put his youth to great advantage. (He's not skating all over gaining a step on older skaters, etc.) If there aren't any 40+ y/o goalies, then you're faced with a choice between having no goalie on one or more teams or bringing in someone who doesn't meet the age requirement. Pretty obvious to me which is the better option.
I hear what you are saying and somewhat agree. However, suppose the regular goalie is 45 and sucks. Kid filling in is 23 and right out of college. It does matter. It's an over 40 league. My team shouldn't miss the playoffs b/c of a 23 yr. old that's 5x as good as their regular goalie.

It's a tough call. On the one hand you want to let people play. On the other hand it becomes a bit of a joke when I can bring whomever I want to play on any given night. That's open hockey and not a league.

Submit a roster and substitute roster at the beginning of the year. Let the league have a substitute goalie list for each division. If you can't put a proper team on the ice you forfeit simple as that. Still play the game, but you lose. It would be chaos at first, but guys would adapt. If you can't field 5 players and find a proper goalie on any given night then that team probably shouldn't be in the league.

Just my .02.

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08-23-2011, 11:09 PM
  #36
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It's tough to do. When I played league, it looked like a lot of teams would sandbag it for a few weeks while they worked on "balancing" the divisions before turning it on. I'm still not sure if that was what really happened, or if it was just that everyone was a little out of shape from not playing for the summer.

I can appreciate one or two really good guys playing a little lower than their ideal level. Maybe they're a group of work guys playing together or old buddies from college who vary in skill level. I'd rather play with my friends at a low level than move up to a high level and play with guys I don't know or maybe just don't like.

I think it's a problem when you get an entire team of guys who are clearly above their level. The worst thing is that guys like that seem to love running the gamut on your team and then taunting you about it. I guess some people just like to score a lot of goals, win big, and think they're hot stuff over actually competing.

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08-24-2011, 07:19 AM
  #37
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noobman

Yeah I agree. We can certainly let them know about it though.

I had that situation a couple weeks back. A really good player on the other team got into it with a guy on our team who has only been playing for 3 years. The guys going on and on about how my teammate's a bum and he stinks, blah, blah, blah. I've heard enough, so I skate over to their bench and ask him what pro team is he on or has he ever been on. I reminded him that he's in the same over 40 beer league as the rest of us. Ooh, your good vs. a bunch of older guys half of which are out of shape/overweight. I've never seen someone get so angry so quickly

Moral of the story. Unless you played Junior A, D-I college, minors, or pros you have no reason to think you are anything other than a guy having fun out there. To poke fun at an opponents abilities in a league you play in is poking fun at yourself. That's your competition. It's all relative.

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08-24-2011, 10:05 AM
  #38
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I define a ringer as a guy who can take over and change the game at will. If I drop down to beginner league, I'll probably score 5-10 goals a game. That's what a ringer does. I've played with guys who just decide they want to score a goal and do it. They also seem to "accidentally" score goals even if they're trying to keep the scoring down to avoid being flagged.

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08-24-2011, 10:25 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
noobman
Moral of the story. Unless you played Junior A, D-I college, minors, or pros you have no reason to think you are anything other than a guy having fun out there. To poke fun at an opponents abilities in a league you play in is poking fun at yourself. That's your competition. It's all relative.
The funny thing is, in my experience, the truly high-level players totally understand that rec league is just for fun and nothing worth chirping about. They're usually the ones taking it easy and trying to set teammates up, etc. It's the never-have-beens that are the problem.

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08-24-2011, 11:37 AM
  #40
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The funny thing is, in my experience, the truly high-level players totally understand that rec league is just for fun and nothing worth chirping about. They're usually the ones taking it easy and trying to set teammates up, etc. It's the never-have-beens that are the problem.
Very true.

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08-24-2011, 05:47 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I define a ringer as a guy who can take over and change the game at will. If I drop down to beginner league, I'll probably score 5-10 goals a game. That's what a ringer does. I've played with guys who just decide they want to score a goal and do it. They also seem to "accidentally" score goals even if they're trying to keep the scoring down to avoid being flagged.
In that case... this just doesn't happen very often. I've been playing beer league for 5 years now and that's happened maybe 3 times. One time the guy would just take the puck behind his net, skate it all the way over the blueline, slapshot, goal. And he kept on doing it. It was one of the dumbest games I've ever played in.

If a team brings one guy like this out every so often and he doesn't play in a higher division in the same league then there really isn't anything stopping them. If he comes out consistently and props the team up then they'll get moved up as necessary.

Fortunately, most good players tend to not ring for a lower division game and essentially ruin it for everyone.

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Old
08-24-2011, 11:24 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noobman View Post
I think it's a problem when you get an entire team of guys who are clearly above their level. The worst thing is that guys like that seem to love running the gamut on your team and then taunting you about it. I guess some people just like to score a lot of goals, win big, and think they're hot stuff over actually competing.
It's incredibly sad how many people like this there actually are. I've even met a few female players like that. From my experience, the closer the score and skill level of both teams, the more fun it is. I know that's how it is for most people but it's just disheartening how many are the opposite.

It's worse when the score is like 10-2 or something, a guy scores to make it 11-2, and he celebrates like it's the friggin' Stanley Cup Final.

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08-25-2011, 10:48 AM
  #43
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Yeah the guys I've played with who were ringers weren't doing it constantly, just when the team was losing. But they do it often enough and get tagged.

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08-25-2011, 06:31 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
Plus there's the sub factor.

Just because you roster a 40+ y/o goalie doesn't mean he's going to be available every night.

Eventually you'll get a game where he calls the captain an hour or two before game time saying "I've got to work late tonight, can't make it," and then what do you do? Forfeit the game and tell both teams they can't play because the only available goalies playing earlier games at the rink that evening are 35 and under?
Yeah it's kind of the same thing with a beginners league. There's only so many legit beginners to go around, and if you're team ends up short and needs some subs chances are the new guys played hockey before and at this level anyone who has experience could be a 'ringer'.

Anyways, the 3 leagues I've played in they just re-adjust the divisions a couple of times a season, moving teams up or down divisions depending on how they're performing. So bring some ringers onto the team and you're going to risk finding yourself in a higher division that the rest of the team can't keep up with.

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Old
08-25-2011, 07:20 PM
  #45
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My league has three divisions A,B and C. The c league has the most teams and you get mostly sloppy hockey with a few guys who can skate fast and have decent hands. B league is for more advanced obviously. The A league had four teams a few years back now this year six. I believe they did a draft and took a few guys from other a teams and made two new teams.

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Old
08-25-2011, 07:59 PM
  #46
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I'm from Vancouver and leagues do the following:

- Minimum 5-7 games must be played in the regular season.
- Every player MUST register at the front office before EVER playing a game.
- Each player is given a specific helmet sticker. No sticker, and you are sent off the ice to register and pick one up.

works quite well... find the helmet sticker really stops teams from trying to sneak players in as other players.

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08-29-2011, 04:03 PM
  #47
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Short answer is they don't.

Longer answer is that the league doesn't seem to care, as long as they're getting fees. At every coordinators' meeting, there's a song and dance from the league manager(s) saying they will be monitoring play and moving people up, but it's really up to the coordinators to police their own teams.

Nobody in that situation is going to call out a ringer or two on another team for fear of retaliation. So the ringers continue to pile up in every league.

A few years ago, the A/AA level vanished because not enough teams would sign up for it. The players are still there, just playing down a level or two. So then B players get pushed out and so on down to having teams that had been playing in the instructional league, as a team, for 5 or more seasons.

Nobody monitors the games or even looks at the score sheets. Things then get chippy because people are pissed off at Johnny Ringer, many of the refs know he doesn't belong and let other players get in cheap shots, Johnny Ringer gets pissed and chaos ensues.

That said, with what they pay the managers, I can't say I'd be terribly bothered to give a crap either.

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08-29-2011, 04:39 PM
  #48
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Well the league just took our four best players and moved us up a level, so I'll say they're doing a pretty good job of punishing us for our success.

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08-29-2011, 05:51 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtter View Post
The funny thing is, in my experience, the truly high-level players totally understand that rec league is just for fun and nothing worth chirping about. They're usually the ones taking it easy and trying to set teammates up, etc. It's the never-have-beens that are the problem.
Yeah, this is my experience.

I play in the lowest level league, and deservedly so. There are a few top-league players (we only have three levels - it's a small rink in a small town - but the top level is usually current and former college players) who will play down occasionally. Those guys are great, usually. They give you useful tips and great passes, and they don't go on goal line-to-goal line jaunts with the puck.

It's the mid and high level B players playing down that are an issue. Those guys are never as good as they think they are (seriously, toe dragging around me is nothing to be proud of), yell at newbies advice like "pick the corner!" when that person is having trouble not falling over and never pass the puck. Plus they like to yell about playing your position when they're a D trying to screen in front of the opponent's net. Good times.

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01-14-2013, 03:14 PM
  #50
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Our league out here in Sacramento has the same problem. Guys like to play 2 or 3 levels down so they can show off to their girlfriends what a "stud" they are.

And then the league wonders why there are fights?!

There is only 1 way that I see of really dealing with the problem. You have to give players an individual ranking. It's pretty easy to spot the players who are playing down a few leagues. They are the ones skating around everyone like it's a cone drill.

The problem is, leagues are too lazy to store that data, and there are usually enough players who are willing to pay their $$ despite how frustrated they are because there is nowhere else to play hockey.

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