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Cammalleri feeling fit, predicts best season ever

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Old
08-24-2011, 11:17 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
that's not true, always. Many players can rely on other skills and their size - and become grinders / defensive minded 3rd or 4th liners.

Without his shot, midget would be considered too small for a bottom line role.
But he's not a 3rd line player so who cares.

Plus guys like Jordan Tootoo, Scott Nichol and Talbot would disagree with this statement.


Last edited by Andy: 08-24-2011 at 11:57 AM.
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08-24-2011, 11:54 AM
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For half the season he was. He wasn't scoring and had a laughably low shooting percentage. As terrible as Scott was/is, it's not like he could will Gionta's shots into the net. I also didn't say he was useless in all 3 zones, just that offensively if he isn't potting goals then he's not worth much.
One thing we can agree on. I must say though I blame the coaching staff equally for always putting Moen/Darche on that line. Pouliot was playing poorly but he would have been a better fit and within 10 or so games probably would have got his confidence back up.

Now we'll have to see this year if it burns us as a result of not doing that. Obviously there were issues between Benny and the staff.

Gomez is a pure passer, Gionta is a pure shooter, if you put a scrub on their line it's a pretty simple concept really, you cover the 5'6" guy who can score. The other two guys Moen and Gomer can't hit the ocean with a beach ball. So just due to the common sense errors in judgment I can't fault them for it all. Also I remember early on Gomez was playing with confidence but then when nothing was going in you could visibly see it was affecting him. Hopefully this year they get off to a good start having a real line to work with.

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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
that's not true, always. Many players can rely on other skills and their size - and become grinders / defensive minded 3rd or 4th liners.

Without his shot, midget would be considered too small for a bottom line role.
If his shot was half as accurate he'd still be a 20g scorer on a full season and 3rd liner though. Also of course Plekanec is a better playmaker than Cammy so he's likely not 2nd on the team.

That having been said though with his strong work ethic just like a lot of players who lack skill but work hard, he'd be able to make it imo. He just won't be a 1st liner but definitely an okay 3rd liner. Yeah he's small but people ignore the plenty of average or smaller sized 2nd or 3rd line wingers in the NHL. Like I mentioned earlier a lot of teams roll with a 3rd scoring line these days and have been going in that direction since the lockout. I can't see Cammy not making it given his playmaking skills and dedication just based on having a shot that's say half as accurate. If Gionta can do it based mainly on garbage goals than so can Cammy based on work ethic and garbage goals. He would play a different style of game if his accuracy wasn't a strength.

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08-24-2011, 12:10 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post

Plus guys like Jordan Tootoo, Scott Nichol and Talbot would disagree with this statement.
of course they would

Cammy isn't nearly as strong on his legs as these guys. Cammy has mini legs


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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
If his shot was half as accurate he'd still be a 20g scorer on a full season and 3rd liner though. Also of course Plekanec is a better playmaker than Cammy so he's likely not 2nd on the team.

That having been said though with his strong work ethic just like a lot of players who lack skill but work hard, he'd be able to make it imo. He just won't be a 1st liner but definitely an okay 3rd liner. Yeah he's small but people ignore the plenty of average or smaller sized 2nd or 3rd line wingers in the NHL. Like I mentioned earlier a lot of teams roll with a 3rd scoring line these days and have been going in that direction since the lockout. I can't see Cammy not making it given his playmaking skills and dedication just based on having a shot that's say half as accurate. If Gionta can do it based mainly on garbage goals than so can Cammy based on work ethic and garbage goals. He would play a different style of game if his accuracy wasn't a strength.
Gionta is a lot stronger and faster than Cammy.

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08-24-2011, 12:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
of course they would

Cammy isn't nearly as strong on his legs as these guys. Cammy has mini legs
I don't even know what that is supposed to mean.

When players realize they can't make it in one role, they adjust their game and training to make it in another.

Cammalleri has no need to work on the area of his game that would make him a 3rd liner because he isn't.

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08-24-2011, 12:18 PM
  #55
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''x player would be an ahler if he wasn't good at what he does''

this is brand new information!!1!

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08-24-2011, 01:10 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
1st of all - Plekanec is a better play maker than Cammy. Just stop the nonsense that Cammy is the 2nd best playmaker on this team.

And I never said midget can't pass, I'm saying if it was not for his shot (and quick release), midget be riding greyhound
I really don't see how Plekanec is a better play maker. Plekanec gets many of his assists because he is the center, and the main puck carrier on his line. He is instrumental in the transition game in the defensive and neutral zones. Cammalleri does much of his work inside the top of the circles in the offensive zone, has a better sauce pass, can find the open man in tighter situations, and has better vision.

I firmly believe Cammalleri is the second best play making forward on the team.

Take it from Gomez(paraphrasing), "Cammalleri is an under rated passer, the guy has a really nice touch on his passes, unlike Gionta, who just hucks the puck at you."

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08-24-2011, 01:38 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I really don't see how Plekanec is a better play maker. Plekanec gets many of his assists because he is the center, and the main puck carrier on his line. He is instrumental in the transition game in the defensive and neutral zones. Cammalleri does much of his work inside the top of the circles in the offensive zone, has a better sauce pass, can find the open man in tighter situations, and has better vision.

I firmly believe Cammalleri is the second best play making forward on the team.

Take it from Gomez(paraphrasing), "Cammalleri is an under rated passer, the guy has a really nice touch on his passes, unlike Gionta, who just hucks the puck at you."
Oh I'm not saying he isn't a better playmaker than Gio. But I'd definitely say Plekanec is the better playmaker than Cammy is and it isn't about the assists column, frankly Cammy has had 80+ point seasons racking up tons of assists so it really isn't about points just having watched them play. I think Cammy is underrated but if people are saying Cammy is better than Plek at playmaking then I must say Plek is severely underrated too. I think he's great at making plays. Underrated finisher too imo. Could probably excel in both areas if he didn't have to focus as much on being a two-way player.

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08-24-2011, 01:53 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
For half the season he was. He wasn't scoring and had a laughably low shooting percentage. As terrible as Scott was/is, it's not like he could will Gionta's shots into the net. I also didn't say he was useless in all 3 zones, just that offensively if he isn't potting goals then he's not worth much.

Disagree, The second Martin took Gionta off Gomez line and put him with Cammy and Pleks he was on fire. Something like 10 pts in 6 games. Yes, there was a period where he was snake bitten but he was not horrible, He still went to the front of the net and would dig pucks out of the corners. His Shooting percentage is deceiving. A lot of Gionta's shots were being taken from the perimeter. 2 things had to do with it, One, Gomez was god awful last year. Never drove the net and became predictable So Gionta received the majority of the passes outside the hashmarks. Reason 2 was they usually had a plugger on the other wing, which limited Gomez options to only gionta in the offensive zone.

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08-24-2011, 02:56 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I really don't see how Plekanec is a better play maker. Plekanec gets many of his assists because he is the center, and the main puck carrier on his line. He is instrumental in the transition game in the defensive and neutral zones. Cammalleri does much of his work inside the top of the circles in the offensive zone, has a better sauce pass, can find the open man in tighter situations, and has better vision.

I firmly believe Cammalleri is the second best play making forward on the team.

Take it from Gomez(paraphrasing), "Cammalleri is an under rated passer, the guy has a really nice touch on his passes, unlike Gionta, who just hucks the puck at you."
I don't agree with this, Plek and his Czech sausage passes are legendary. I remember many 2 on 1's in the last few years where Tomas saucer passed to a streaking player for an easy tap in. I think Cammy and Pleks are pretty equal playmakers.

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08-24-2011, 02:58 PM
  #60
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Cammalleri is pro. Period.

Love the dude.

"Hey Cammy! Save something for the playoffs!"

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08-24-2011, 05:36 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Me too.

60 goals and 5 assists.
That's pretty much what he gets in NHL11
Pouliot and Cammy are the sickest snipers on the team


I always get the feeling Cammy's a zen kinda guy. He always talks about how his body is responding to some injury or how balanced he feels lol.

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08-24-2011, 06:19 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
that's not true, always. Many players can rely on other skills and their size - and become grinders / defensive minded 3rd or 4th liners.

Without his shot, midget would be considered too small for a bottom line role.
Without his hockey IQ, Gretzky wouldn't have played in the NHL, he was too small to grind.

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08-24-2011, 06:28 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I sure will.

Besides Gomez, he is the best play-making/passing forward on the team. And no one on the team can make sauce passes like him, not even Markov. His shot is only really that good because of his release, and his stick handling ability, something that takes years to develop. Its not like he was just born with a great shot and became an NHLer because of it.
It's all well and good to defend Killa Cam from the one dimensional argument. But Plekanec is hands down the best playmaker on this team. ESPECIALLY if we're talking about saucer passes. Any other argument seems ludicrous.

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08-24-2011, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I really don't see how Plekanec is a better play maker. Plekanec gets many of his assists because he is the center, and the main puck carrier on his line. He is instrumental in the transition game in the defensive and neutral zones. Cammalleri does much of his work inside the top of the circles in the offensive zone, has a better sauce pass, can find the open man in tighter situations, and has better vision.

I firmly believe Cammalleri is the second best play making forward on the team.

Take it from Gomez(paraphrasing), "Cammalleri is an under rated passer, the guy has a really nice touch on his passes, unlike Gionta, who just hucks the puck at you."
It depends on what you define playmaking to be. If its the ability to start plays that result in offensive chances then Plekanec is obviously superior due to his ability to drive puck possession and get the puck into the offensive zone and pass it to someone in position to due some damage. If its the ability to make good passing plays in the offensive zone that result in good scoring chances then I'd argue Cammaleri is a little bit better than Plekanec. Part of what made the Cammaleri-Plekanec-Kostitsyn line great when they were on was that every player on that line can both start and finish a play which made them difficult to defend against. This is in contrast to xxxxx-Gomez-Gionta where the single playmaker and single shooter results in far fewer tactical options.

A large part of what makes Cammaleri an effective goalscorer is that he's dangerous both passing and shooting the puck. Play too much toward taking his shot away opens up chances for everyone else on his line to score so the defender is forced into something of a devil's bargin against him.

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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Disagree, The second Martin took Gionta off Gomez line and put him with Cammy and Pleks he was on fire. Something like 10 pts in 6 games. Yes, there was a period where he was snake bitten but he was not horrible, He still went to the front of the net and would dig pucks out of the corners. His Shooting percentage is deceiving. A lot of Gionta's shots were being taken from the perimeter. 2 things had to do with it, One, Gomez was god awful last year. Never drove the net and became predictable So Gionta received the majority of the passes outside the hashmarks. Reason 2 was they usually had a plugger on the other wing, which limited Gomez options to only gionta in the offensive zone.
Gionta had lots of shots to the outside because he generated tons of shots period. Gionta's style is to spray shots on net but he also frequently buzzes the net and picks up opportunities there. He fanned on tons of scoring chances close to the net especially in the early going this was the biggest reason for Gomez's poor offensive season, Gionta wasn't capitalizing on the chances they generated together at his usual rate and Gomez isn't a good enough shooter to make the adjustment to getting him to try and score worthwhile.

Gomez's good days in a Habs uniform correspond strongly to the times when he's had an effective left winger to put with him and Gionta, be it Cammaleri in October/November '09, Pouliot from late December '09 to March '10 or Pacioretty's stint with him last year. Otherwise the most common use is with Moen to form a more defensively focused matchup line.

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08-24-2011, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
that's not true, always. Many players can rely on other skills and their size - and become grinders / defensive minded 3rd or 4th liners.

Without his shot, midget would be considered too small for a bottom line role.
Yeah like Scott Nichol, oh wait....

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08-24-2011, 06:49 PM
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I've yet to see a player make nicer passes in a 2 on 1 than Plekanec (on our team)

Pacioretty has actually shown flashes of genius in that regard surprisingly, sometimes I'd do a double take. If he can keep improving we'll be set for our top 6. The kid can at times be a very underrated passer. I rarely see it mentioned on here.

Also since the shootout I've yet to see one of our players be better on the shootout than Koivu. I eagerly await the day we do. Not that SO is that important but it's cool to have a Koivu in the mix.

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08-24-2011, 07:05 PM
  #67
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Also since the shootout I've yet to see one of our players be better on the shootout than Koivu. I eagerly await the day we do. Not that SO is that important but it's cool to have a Koivu in the mix.
Gionta is pretty decent on the breakaway/shootout.

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08-24-2011, 07:07 PM
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I've yet to see a player make nicer passes in a 2 on 1 than Plekanec (on our team)

Pacioretty has actually shown flashes of genius in that regard surprisingly, sometimes I'd do a double take. If he can keep improving we'll be set for our top 6. The kid can at times be a very underrated passer. I rarely see it mentioned on here.

Also since the shootout I've yet to see one of our players be better on the shootout than Koivu. I eagerly await the day we do. Not that SO is that important but it's cool to have a Koivu in the mix.
Strong passing has always been an element to Pacioretty's game, which is why he had a very good year as a 19 year old in the AHL despite low goal totals. His breakthrough this year was that he started to really use the pretty good shot tool he had combined with the physical development to play the power game against men is what put everything together for him. In the future I think he'll end up being a bit more of a playmaker than scorer on ES but be mostly a goal scorer on the powerplay as the primary net presence.

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08-24-2011, 07:18 PM
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Strong passing has always been an element to Pacioretty's game, which is why he had a very good year as a 19 year old in the AHL despite low goal totals. His breakthrough this year was that he started to really use the pretty good shot tool he had combined with the physical development to play the power game against men is what put everything together for him. In the future I think he'll end up being a bit more of a playmaker than scorer on ES but be mostly a goal scorer on the powerplay as the primary net presence.
He knows how to use his size really effectively at the NHL level. I really hope he recovered perfectly *fingers crossed* I can't believe we essentially got Pacioretty and Gorges for Rivet In my eyes that alone cancels out the Gomez deal and if Gomer has a come back year having a strong supporting cast... it's going to be an exciting year a lot of question marks, a lot of youth. Looking back that trade in my eyes could have been the difference between SJ winning and not winning the cup last year Gotta love the what ifs.

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08-24-2011, 07:50 PM
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Oh I'm not saying he isn't a better playmaker than Gio. But I'd definitely say Plekanec is the better playmaker than Cammy is and it isn't about the assists column, frankly Cammy has had 80+ point seasons racking up tons of assists so it really isn't about points just having watched them play. I think Cammy is underrated but if people are saying Cammy is better than Plek at playmaking then I must say Plek is severely underrated too. I think he's great at making plays. Underrated finisher too imo. Could probably excel in both areas if he didn't have to focus as much on being a two-way player.
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Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
I don't agree with this, Plek and his Czech sausage passes are legendary. I remember many 2 on 1's in the last few years where Tomas saucer passed to a streaking player for an easy tap in. I think Cammy and Pleks are pretty equal playmakers.
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Originally Posted by Ayatollah Chowmeini View Post
It's all well and good to defend Killa Cam from the one dimensional argument. But Plekanec is hands down the best playmaker on this team. ESPECIALLY if we're talking about saucer passes. Any other argument seems ludicrous.
...

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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
It depends on what you define playmaking to be. If its the ability to start plays that result in offensive chances then Plekanec is obviously superior due to his ability to drive puck possession and get the puck into the offensive zone and pass it to someone in position to due some damage. If its the ability to make good passing plays in the offensive zone that result in good scoring chances then I'd argue Cammaleri is a little bit better than Plekanec. Part of what made the Cammaleri-Plekanec-Kostitsyn line great when they were on was that every player on that line can both start and finish a play which made them difficult to defend against. This is in contrast to xxxxx-Gomez-Gionta where the single playmaker and single shooter results in far fewer tactical options.

A large part of what makes Cammaleri an effective goalscorer is that he's dangerous both passing and shooting the puck. Play too much toward taking his shot away opens up chances for everyone else on his line to score so the defender is forced into something of a devil's bargin against him.
This is basically the argument I was trying to make. I define play making ability as the ability to distribute the puck in the offensive zone. Your transition game is going to be the passing ability in your defensive or neutral zones. That is my definition anyways, there is some gray area though.

Plekanec is great at moving the puck with speed, on the breakout, or on odd man rushes up the ice. But in the offensive zone, he basically has only one play, the skate around the net and the delayed centering pass. He is definitely a capable goal scorer though, but its not surprising that much of his points come off the rush or on the PP.

Cammalleri on the other hand, can play make in tight situations, and below the half circles at a much higher level than Plekanec can. He can make better passes while not skating, and has more accuracy and touch with them.

Doesn't really mean Plekanec is incapable of it, just that Cammalleri is just superior at it.

Oh and BTW, just because someone can make a sauce pass on a 2 on 1 doesn't mean he is better than someone else. Cammalleri makes nice sauce passes from a standstill, or at a slow pace, which is much harder to accomplish than on the rush.

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08-24-2011, 09:48 PM
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...



This is basically the argument I was trying to make. I define play making ability as the ability to distribute the puck in the offensive zone. Your transition game is going to be the passing ability in your defensive or neutral zones. That is my definition anyways, there is some gray area though.

Plekanec is great at moving the puck with speed, on the breakout, or on odd man rushes up the ice. But in the offensive zone, he basically has only one play, the skate around the net and the delayed centering pass. He is definitely a capable goal scorer though, but its not surprising that much of his points come off the rush or on the PP.

Cammalleri on the other hand, can play make in tight situations, and below the half circles at a much higher level than Plekanec can. He can make better passes while not skating, and has more accuracy and touch with them.

Doesn't really mean Plekanec is incapable of it, just that Cammalleri is just superior at it.

Oh and BTW, just because someone can make a sauce pass on a 2 on 1 doesn't mean he is better than someone else. Cammalleri makes nice sauce passes from a standstill, or at a slow pace, which is much harder to accomplish than on the rush.
Bold: True. Cammy has much better hands and deceptiveness in tight and is great at creating separation, allowing him to shoot/pass with more time and space.

Underline: I can't possibly agree with that. Pleks is a far more accurate passer than Cammy is and while you can argue their "touch", Pleks also makes the types of passes that require it more often.

2nd bold: God no. I don't want to pull out this (usually terrible) argument, but how much experience do you have playing hockey?


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08-24-2011, 10:01 PM
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2nd bold: God no. I don't want to pull out this (usually terrible) argument, but how much experience do you have playing hockey?
Enough(5 or 6 years), my sauce passes sucked though.

Does anyone in the NHL keep track of passing completion percentages? That would be interesting to compare.

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08-24-2011, 10:36 PM
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Enough(5 or 6 years), my sauce passes sucked though.

Does anyone in the NHL keep track of passing completion percentages? That would be interesting to compare.
Its all good. I'll try and explain what I mean since I realize that may not have come off the way I intended it.

It's both easier (IMO) to make a clean saucer pass and hit your target if you're standing still because more often then not that would mean you're making lead passes. You just float it into an open area in the direction a player's skating and let them adjust and catch it how they want. Essentially the same as you'd see with a tall receiver off a long bomb in football.

A linear 2-on-1 isn't much different except you have to have a bit better precision and timing.

The hardest type of pass is when both players are moving in different directions. For example, if you're coming around the net and a d-man is sneaking into the high slot. Basically like a QB throwing cross-field off the run.

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08-25-2011, 12:12 AM
  #74
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You might have forgotten about him, but seriously, Markov is the best playmaker on this team.

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08-25-2011, 12:31 AM
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I find it amazing that every toronto interview Cammy does he is still asked who come he is not a leaf. even 2 yrs later.

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