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Old
08-24-2011, 01:33 PM
  #26
2CHAINZ
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Old
08-24-2011, 01:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
yeah...no. Horrific trade for Ottawa. We need goals and other than one good season Little has nothing to offer us. Not sure I would trade Foligno straight up here.

We don't need those 18 goals that bad. Foligno had 14 with less ice-time/game.

------------------

Winnipeg is too small and can't provide the kind of support needed for an NHL franchise. That is; they need to fill big money suites, and I doubt they can do that.

Canadian dollar turns, and they are gone.
I disagree with every point made in this post.

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Old
08-24-2011, 01:37 PM
  #28
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I disagree with every point made in this post.
good. I'm glad I'm not the only one here slightly appalled by that post.

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Old
08-24-2011, 01:47 PM
  #29
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good. I'm glad I'm not the only one here slightly appalled by that post.
Same, I believe Little would thrive here

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Old
08-24-2011, 02:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SwedeSens View Post
Same, I believe Little would thrive here
I was actually more shocked about the Jets leaving Winnipeg in that post, richest guy in Canada(one of the wealthiest men in the world) owns them which=Jets are their for good.

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08-24-2011, 02:01 PM
  #31
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I don't see why Winnipeg would move him right now. Same with Bogo really, just let things settle and see where you're at.

Off Topic: the 5 alive gum commercial on here is driving me absolutely nuts. Why does it have to start every time I come on here, loud and obnoxiously?!? I'll never chew that **** again.

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Old
08-24-2011, 02:06 PM
  #32
ChocolateLeclaire
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Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
good. I'm glad I'm not the only one here slightly appalled by that post.
It was chock full of stupid...

If the Canadian dollar turns EVERY Canadian team, save for the Leafs, are screwed.

Or are some of you to young to remember the Flames, Oilers, Canucks, Sens and even the Habs verging near bankruptcy before the last CBA and a dollar that was trading at $1.30?

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Old
08-24-2011, 02:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I don't see why Winnipeg would move him right now. Same with Bogo really, just let things settle and see where you're at.

Off Topic: the 5 alive gum commercial on here is driving me absolutely nuts. Why does it have to start every time I come on here, loud and obnoxiously?!? I'll never chew that **** again.
I ****EN AGREE, I hate that add...gotta be the most annoying one. I wish HF would take that **** off.

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Old
08-24-2011, 03:51 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I don't see why Winnipeg would move him right now. Same with Bogo really, just let things settle and see where you're at.

Off Topic: the 5 alive gum commercial on here is driving me absolutely nuts. Why does it have to start every time I come on here, loud and obnoxiously?!? I'll never chew that **** again.
i don't see any ads. i'm running ad block. guess that blocks it? guess you need ad block?

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Old
08-24-2011, 05:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
We'd then need to trade with Toronto to get Jeff Finger and with Buffalo to get Brad Boyes, then convince Finger to play left wing - then we'd have a line of Finger-Little-Boyes.
Instead if the pizza line there nick name could be some thing like the priest line or something like that

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Old
08-24-2011, 06:35 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
It was chock full of stupid...

If the Canadian dollar turns EVERY Canadian team, save for the Leafs, are screwed.

Or are some of you to young to remember the Flames, Oilers, Canucks, Sens and even the Habs verging near bankruptcy before the last CBA and a dollar that was trading at $1.30?
kind of RADICALLY different situations since Ottawa and Montreal had new stadiums. A decent percentage of sens revenue was spent servicing a large debt. Even if the dollar was to tank again sens won't be moving.

But hey, lots of people here love to talk **** they can't grasp.

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Old
08-24-2011, 07:12 PM
  #37
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Instead if the pizza line there nick name could be some thing like the priest line or something like that

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Old
08-24-2011, 07:17 PM
  #38
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lol more talk about the gum ad.. *splaaaassshhhh* yes I hate it too.

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Old
08-25-2011, 01:37 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
We'd then need to trade with Toronto to get Jeff Finger and with Buffalo to get Brad Boyes, then convince Finger to play left wing - then we'd have a line of Finger-Little-Boyes.
...



OMG! This is perfect! The fact that this is acctually possible is the greatest thing in NHL history!

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Old
08-25-2011, 09:07 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeSens View Post
First proposal, so its probably bad.

To Ottawa
Bryan Little

To Winnipeg
Nick Foligno
Patrick Wiercoch
Louie Caporusso
2nd Round Pick

Anyone add/subtract? I like Little, and saw a thread in the Trades forum asking for Little's value, and a Sens fan proposed Foligno+3rd, which was way off. So I thought of this, not sure if its good/bad. Little would fit here because he's young and we are rebuilding, so he could help the youngsters out.

Flame away.
wow, I never realized Bryan Little had so much value

Let's analyse this :

The guy is 5'10 and 190 lbs

Foligno is 6'0 and 209 lbs

Little NHL stats :

2007-08 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 48 6 10 16 18 -2
2008-09 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 79 31 20 51 24 -5
2009-10 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 79 13 21 34 20 -6
2010-11 Atlanta Thrashers NHL 76 18 30 48 +11

Foligno stats :

2007-08 Ottawa Senators NHL 45 6 3 9 20 0
2008-09 Ottawa Senators NHL 81 17 15 32 59 -10
2009-10 Ottawa Senators NHL 61 9 17 26 53 +6
2010-11 Ottawa Senators NHL 82 14 20 34 -19

Little is more productive but he also had more opportunity playing on top lines in Atlanta with good offensive players. Foligno had some stretches but has been grinding a lot on the 4th line too.

Is the difference between the 2 players enough to give up :

- Patrick Wiercioch (better prospect than given credit for, would be top-10 and maybe top-5 in many NHL prospect pools)
- Louie Caporusso (decent prospect but not the end of the world)
- 2nd Round Pick (decent value, always useful, particulary at the draft for the Sens)

Even if it was Caporusso and a 3rd pick with Foligno, I'm not sure I'd make that trade. We are hoping to develop better players than Little for the top-6 (Butler, Da Costa, Petersson, Filatov, Zibanejad, Regin and even Greening should all have their chance to establish themselves this season), and Foligno with his size and strenght is a keeper for the bottom-6 vs Bryan Little. I named at least 6 guys who deserve a chance to prove themselves. Little would just be in their way. And next season, we have Silfverberg and probably a high 1st round pick coming in. Oh and let's not forget about Noesen, Stone, Puempel,...

JUST WAIT AND SEE. We have tons of guys who could end up being better than Little.

Finally, you're saying Little is "young", but Wiercioch, Caporusso and 2nd are all younger and Foligno is 1 month older...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeSens View Post
So maybe we add Regin or Da Costa instead of Wiercoch/Caporusso?
Regin, Foligno, Wiercioch and 2nd for Little? That'd be horrible asset management : Regin, a 1st and two 2nds for Little?

I know the Sens had a bad season last year and so-called experts project them to finish low this year, but it's a team game, so it doesn't mean individual parts are crap or have no value.

How am I able to say this? Just look at what people thought we'd be getting back for Fisher, Kelly, Campoli, etc and check what Murray (who is the worst GM in trades according to this board), got in return, and WITHOUT taking any salary back too.


Personnally, I wouldn't trade Regin for Little alone, and you should see why this season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
They didn't have trouble selling out riding a wave of enthusiasm for the returning heroes.

If the team blows you might start selling less tickets, and with that arena they cannot allow that to happen.

My point is that Winnipeg needs to do everything they can to sell out to be financially stable. Trading Little for prospects and Foligno is not going to help them ice a competitive team now, and when you consider how poorly they did at the end of last year, that team needs to have a strong season now, not in a few years.
Actually, it's the exact opposite. They have 3-5 years to build a solid team. Now, they will enjoy the hype of having a NHL team back in their city and have every game sold out. In a few years, if they still suck ala Thrashers did, they will start having some problems again. It would be the same situation in Quebec City.


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Old
08-25-2011, 09:56 AM
  #41
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Nicely put. I don't want to lose a Wiercioch. With the defence that features Karlsson and Rundblad, there needs to be a balance of stay at home guys to partner with.

Cowen would be one. Wiercioch could go eirther way. When he was up last year, I was pleased with his vision and "simple" game. That is probably where he needs to start any way.

While Phillips is here we have a steady influence. Kuba and Gochar I dismiss as they are gone at the minimum after this season, probably sooner - trade deadline, which would allow for a Wiercioch audition.

Foligno is an enigma for me (said it many times). This is the year he has to produce out of the gate, or he needs to be gone too. With Silfverberg coming, the last and next draft, and the talent in Binghamton this year his time is now to show he belongs.

I like Little, but we have a slew of young guys coming.

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Old
08-25-2011, 11:09 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Nicely put. I don't want to lose a Wiercioch. With the defence that features Karlsson and Rundblad, there needs to be a balance of stay at home guys to partner with.

Cowen would be one. Wiercioch could go eirther way. When he was up last year, I was pleased with his vision and "simple" game. That is probably where he needs to start any way.

While Phillips is here we have a steady influence. Kuba and Gochar I dismiss as they are gone at the minimum after this season, probably sooner - trade deadline, which would allow for a Wiercioch audition.

Foligno is an enigma for me (said it many times). This is the year he has to produce out of the gate, or he needs to be gone too. With Silfverberg coming, the last and next draft, and the talent in Binghamton this year his time is now to show he belongs.

I like Little, but we have a slew of young guys coming.
Wiercioch, I think it's safe to say, isn't going to be a stay-at-home dman. Of course we've seen stranger things happens in terms of a prospect taking an unexpected turn in his position (Chris Phillips) but I wouldn't count on it.

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Old
08-25-2011, 11:20 AM
  #43
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Did anybody try and take into consideration how Winnipeg is in more need of elite potential players and less need of depth players?

Puempel could very well be our Brian Little and trading young talent during a rebuild is not a very good way of managing assets.

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Old
08-25-2011, 11:24 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Nicely put. I don't want to lose a Wiercioch. With the defence that features Karlsson and Rundblad, there needs to be a balance of stay at home guys to partner with.

Cowen would be one. Wiercioch could go eirther way. When he was up last year, I was pleased with his vision and "simple" game. That is probably where he needs to start any way.

While Phillips is here we have a steady influence. Kuba and Gochar I dismiss as they are gone at the minimum after this season, probably sooner - trade deadline, which would allow for a Wiercioch audition.

Foligno is an enigma for me (said it many times). This is the year he has to produce out of the gate, or he needs to be gone too. With Silfverberg coming, the last and next draft, and the talent in Binghamton this year his time is now to show he belongs.

I like Little, but we have a slew of young guys coming.
I agree with most of this. All we need to do is develop our young players. This season is dedicated to player development. We have to see what we got. What's the point making trades before we know. In a few months, many questions will be answered and we will see a lot clearer

However, I disagree about Foligno. Whay does he needs to be gone? Because if he doesn't become a top-6 reliable offensive player? What's wrong having him on your 3rd line? He proved that he produce well for that role and that his defensive game is adequate. He has size and can fill in your top-6 if injuries. Oh and it's apparent that he wears the Sens in his heart. He really cares and seems to be a very good person to have in the Sens organization.

The next players to go are Kuba, Carkner, Winchester and Konopka. Their contracts are up at the end of the season and probably won't be re-signed

in 2012-13, Neil and Gonchar have their contracts up, so they will probably not be re-signed, Alfie will retire at some point too, but he probably won't play the following season

Lee and Michalek are more likely to be moved at some point too, maybe Regin too but it depends on what happens this season.

We will see anyway


Last edited by Xspyrit: 08-25-2011 at 11:29 AM.
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Old
08-25-2011, 12:38 PM
  #45
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Wiercioch reminds me a lot of Phillips. He will have a chance to be the offensive guy from time to time, but as things shake out, I think those slots are filled by Karlsson and Rundblad. Each of those needs a steady partner and if PW is to be a top 4, then he needs to adapt. I think he has the hockey IQ to do this. Borowiecki is another who could fit this scenario (Phillips type).

By next year I could see something like

Karlsson - Cowen
Phillips - Rundblad
Wiercioch - Borowiecki
Carkner, Lee

with Phillips moving down the year after

As for Foligno, I just do not see him as a Top 6 guy. 3LW if he could do it is where he needs to be. But it seems the consensus is he should be Top 6. There are better guys coming I think (hope). As an asset I think he brings a good pick/prospect in return or is a solid part of a package. When I say gone, I'm looking at a solid trade (can't refuse type) or at the deadline. He gets his shot with a new coach and system to show his stuff before Murray decides

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Old
08-25-2011, 01:14 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
As for Foligno, I just do not see him as a Top 6 guy. 3LW if he could do it is where he needs to be. But it seems the consensus is he should be Top 6. There are better guys coming I think (hope). As an asset I think he brings a good pick/prospect in return or is a solid part of a package. When I say gone, I'm looking at a solid trade (can't refuse type) or at the deadline. He gets his shot with a new coach and system to show his stuff before Murray decides
I don't think the consensus is that Foligno should be in the top 6 - Spezza, Michalek and Alfredsson are all locks for the top 2 lines, while Butler and Filatov should be there to give them the best chance to succeed, and Regin will likely be the 2nd centre. Foligno may have been a top 6 guy last year, but if guys like Filatov and Butler can establish themselves as legitimate scoring forwards, then Foligno will be in his rightful place as the 3rd line LW, and plug holes if necessary.

Ultimately, we have a lot of prospects that could eventually slot into a bottom 6 role, but none of them have proven anywhere near as much as Foligno (remember, he was 3rd on the team in scoring last year; he was the only player to have a career year instead of a down year). He's still only 23 (younger than Greening and Condra), makes just $1.2 mil and doesn't stand to get much of a raise in free agency. The fact that MacLean/Murray have identified him as part of the leadership core speaks volumes - namely, that we shouldn't be looking to trade Foligno unless it's for a considerable return.

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Old
08-25-2011, 01:21 PM
  #47
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Foligno isn't going anywhere and as soon as people stop hoping for him to turn into a 50 point player they'll understand how having him on the team is a good thing.

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Old
08-25-2011, 02:15 PM
  #48
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Foligno isn't going anywhere and as soon as people stop hoping for him to turn into a 50 point player they'll understand how having him on the team is a good thing.
Yeah, I like his game. We have to be open about moving some prospects and younger players at some point, but why bother unless it's a true difference maker? It looks like we can fill in the other pieces from within right now - if not this year then next.

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08-25-2011, 03:02 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by operasen View Post
Foligno is an enigma for me (said it many times). This is the year he has to produce out of the gate, or he needs to be gone too. With Silfverberg coming, the last and next draft, and the talent in Binghamton this year his time is now to show he belongs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
However, I disagree about Foligno. Whay does he needs to be gone? Because if he doesn't become a top-6 reliable offensive player? What's wrong having him on your 3rd line? He proved that he produce well for that role and that his defensive game is adequate. He has size and can fill in your top-6 if injuries. Oh and it's apparent that he wears the Sens in his heart. He really cares and seems to be a very good person to have in the Sens organization.
I think it's connected to the fact that people are still referencing his draft position in trade proposals:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Regin, Foligno, Wiercioch and 2nd for Little? That'd be horrible asset management : Regin, a 1st and two 2nds for Little?
Brian Lee feels his pain. Let's trade them both for Duncan Keith... 2 1st rounders for a 2nd... we'd be getting robbed.

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Old
08-25-2011, 03:34 PM
  #50
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Trade proposals with the name "Winnipeg" in them still make me feel like a little kid of Christmas morning. Sometimes I can't believe it still.

That said, there's no way the Jets do this deal. I'm a Sens fan (since the Jets left), so I really have no bias here. The Jets won't be getting rid of players like Little, because they need to add more players of this nature, not subtract them. Jets and Sens both need help up front, so I don't see them as ideal trading partners.

PS - And to the guy that made the outlandish comment about Winnipeg being out of the league again, I suggest you read a book.

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