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08-24-2011, 11:00 PM
  #26
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Really thought that said Joey Votto, and I knew he had problems with depression, so I almost cried.

RIP to Vento.

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08-24-2011, 11:13 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flountown View Post
It was private property, regardless of being right or wrong, it IS his right to post it.

I'd **** a chicken if those rights were violated.
No it isn't... it is a restaurant that is public and is located in a neighbourhood that has several nationalities settling in there... The Mexican restaurants down the street serve people who speak English. Joey, being the smart businessman that he was should have had either Spanish speaking people on his staff or trained to deal with the residents of the area... OR moved his business, which was his right.

All people in this country... residents, visitors, or people settling here... have equal rights in these restaurants as long as they do not abuse the right and are orderly... I'm certain that the people urned away could communicate well enough to make a transaction... and I am certain that they do so at Pat's across 9th and Passyunk.

It was not about slowing down the lines... it was about his not liking people to not speak English... I'm a descendant of an immigrant who did well in Philly through the Great Depression and died not being fluent in English. I wonder if Joey is somewhere now where they can communicate... If Joey so chooses to do so.

In any case, yes I do believe that businesses in the US do not have the right to turn away customers for lack of communication skills... and they should be required to adjust their operations just like they have to for other people.

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08-24-2011, 11:21 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Its his business, and his business is well known to move quickly and accurately. That's why there's a certain way to order a steak. If I remember correctly, Pat's said that they'd gladly take the non-english speaking customers, but they also run a line that is just as quick and accurate. I think that's what drew the sign, not the fact that he didn't want non-english speakers ordering at his facility. He knew more than anyone that his establishment was a tourist attraction.
Pat's started their sign explaining how to order steaks (Wit etc.) after the procedure developed over time... I see it as more a amusing thing than something to move the lines quickly.

Joey made a campaign out of this 'We are in America and we must learn to speak the national language just like my parents did' -- he should have opened a business in California or the Southwest and tried that crap -- He made no attempt to hide his feelings about that... Trust me, it was not about moving the lines quickly, and is in force even when there are no lines.

That said... RIP Joey.

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08-24-2011, 11:53 PM
  #29
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What are you whining about? If you don't like having to speak English then you don't have to go there and order something.

In Australia our language is English, if I were to run a business like him and some customers tried to order in some aboriginal language or chinese I would tell them to speak English or leave my premises. It is perfectly in my right.

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08-25-2011, 12:35 AM
  #30
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I still don't get how saying, "gimme a whiz wit" is considered "speaking English".

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08-25-2011, 01:02 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chokers Gonna Choke View Post
What are you whining about? If you don't like having to speak English then you don't have to go there and order something.

In Australia our language is English, if I were to run a business like him and some customers tried to order in some aboriginal language or chinese I would tell them to speak English or leave my premises. It is perfectly in my right.
I don't wanna start a race war or anything, but isn't part of moving to a country assimilating to the culture, aka learning the national language so you're able to function? If I moved to France I'd make an effort to speak French.

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Old
08-25-2011, 01:06 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I don't wanna start a race war or anything, but isn't part of moving to a country assimilating to the culture, aka learning the national language so you're able to function? If I moved to France I'd make an effort to speak French.
That's all I think his point was, he was not really being racist I don't think. Regardless it's a shame he died, RIP!

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08-25-2011, 01:44 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I don't wanna start a race war or anything, but isn't part of moving to a country assimilating to the culture, aka learning the national language so you're able to function? If I moved to France I'd make an effort to speak French.
America doesn't have a "national language". And really... he didn't want people to "speak English"; he wanted people to "talk American".

Big difference.

It may not have been out and out racism, but it was definitely pompous, arrogant and pretty redneckish.

edit: Never liked Geno's steaks (or Pat's for that matter).

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08-25-2011, 02:42 AM
  #34
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sucks to see people die

but straight talk: dude was a racist and the discriminatory signs that place accrued over the years is a disgrace.

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Old
08-25-2011, 03:48 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpyG View Post
America doesn't have a "national language". And really... he didn't want people to "speak English"; he wanted people to "talk American".

Big difference.

It may not have been out and out racism, but it was definitely pompous, arrogant and pretty redneckish.

edit: Never liked Geno's steaks (or Pat's for that matter).
Second all of this, but I was serious about the RIP (DEP).

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08-25-2011, 05:56 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Its his business, and his business is well known to move quickly and accurately. That's why there's a certain way to order a steak. If I remember correctly, Pat's said that they'd gladly take the non-english speaking customers, but they also run a line that is just as quick and accurate. I think that's what drew the sign, not the fact that he didn't want non-english speakers ordering at his facility. He knew more than anyone that his establishment was a tourist attraction.
The "Philly ordering procedure" is a gimmick and stupid. It just adds to the stupid allure of going down there and ordering a cheesesteak. It didn't add efficiency to anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chokers Gonna Choke View Post
What are you whining about? If you don't like having to speak English then you don't have to go there and order something.

In Australia our language is English, if I were to run a business like him and some customers tried to order in some aboriginal language or chinese I would tell them to speak English or leave my premises. It is perfectly in my right.
Good thing this isn't Australia. And it may be in your right but it doesn't mean that its the right thing to do, and that other people should accept it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I don't wanna start a race war or anything, but isn't part of moving to a country assimilating to the culture, aka learning the national language so you're able to function? If I moved to France I'd make an effort to speak French.
National language? Are you really that clueless?

Speaking spanish is a part of these people's culture and one of the things thats supposed to make this country great is the openness to all cultures, even though that's a sham. This guy is a private entity so he can do whatever he wants in that regard but it still flies in the face of his BS patriot rhetoric and overall just a jerk off move.

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Old
08-25-2011, 09:36 AM
  #37
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Bummer for his family.
But the guy was a jerk, and his cheesteaks kinda sucked.
Did lots for the Philly PD, though.

Chinks FTW!!

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08-25-2011, 09:53 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
The "Philly ordering procedure" is a gimmick and stupid. It just adds to the stupid allure of going down there and ordering a cheesesteak. It didn't add efficiency to anything.



Good thing this isn't Australia. And it may be in your right but it doesn't mean that its the right thing to do, and that other people should accept it.



National language? Are you really that clueless?

Speaking spanish is a part of these people's culture and one of the things thats supposed to make this country great is the openness to all cultures, even though that's a sham. This guy is a private entity so he can do whatever he wants in that regard but it still flies in the face of his BS patriot rhetoric and overall just a jerk off move.
Oh get out of here with this garbage, why is it suddenly the responsibility of the business to learn their language when they're providing the service? Is it really that difficult for anyone of any language to learn to say a number, followed by a cheese, followed by wit or witout?

Suddenly ordering in english is making them lose their culture? Bullsh*t.

RIP Joey Vento. Since I live in the NE I've only had a few of his cheesesteaks, I mostly stick with Steve's up here.

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Old
08-25-2011, 10:25 AM
  #39
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Well it is never classy to speak ill of the dead but the guy wasn't exactly the poster child for the Merriam-Webster dictionary either. He was pretty much a "caffone" cartoonish character not unlike Snooki (faux italian) and Pauly D (complete embarassment). But "what are you gonna do" guy was just a product of his times and not exactly educated. You can't rationalize the irrational.

I'm second gen italian and my parents both learned the language and assimilated. My dad came when he was 16 back in the early 50's and he had to face a lot of crap initially..the same crap that Vento was all indignant about. He is within his right to speak his mind in this country but doesn't mean his intolerant opinions are right or prudent. In fact, they are just more polarizing and he should have been just ignored but that kind of stuff plays well in the press and is good for inane public consumption.

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Old
08-25-2011, 10:30 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
The "Philly ordering procedure" is a gimmick and stupid. It just adds to the stupid allure of going down there and ordering a cheesesteak. It didn't add efficiency to anything.



Good thing this isn't Australia. And it may be in your right but it doesn't mean that its the right thing to do, and that other people should accept it.



National language? Are you really that clueless?

Speaking spanish is a part of these people's culture and one of the things thats supposed to make this country great is the openness to all cultures, even though that's a sham. This guy is a private entity so he can do whatever he wants in that regard but it still flies in the face of his BS patriot rhetoric and overall just a jerk off move.
We are open to all cultures, and all cultures that arrived a century+ ago made an effort to learn English, because that is the primary language.

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08-25-2011, 10:42 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post


The size of the sign was not important... the words were huge.
Exactly what's wrong with America. It is a country built upon genocide and bigotry. What's wrong with Spanish, or perhaps an Aboriginal language? They've been here longer than any of our white *****. Makes one think that a more explicit history of the States should be taught in the schools.

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08-25-2011, 11:01 AM
  #42
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because that is the primary language.
No it's not. It's YOUR primary language. People learned it to get by in the country, not to appease White people's need to force everyone to do things theier way.

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08-25-2011, 11:03 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TarredandFeathered View Post
Exactly what's wrong with America. It is a country built upon genocide and bigotry. What's wrong with Spanish, or perhaps an Aboriginal language? They've been here longer than any of our white *****. Makes one think that a more explicit history of the States should be taught in the schools.
Yeah, the Spaniards were really light on the genocide and bigotry. Kid gloves, really.

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08-25-2011, 11:39 AM
  #44
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lack of respect for someone who just died is always fun

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08-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #45
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lack of respect for someone who just died is always fun
I know right? Is it tradition somewhere to gather around and bash the recently deceased? The guy isn't a war criminal, yet people are beginning to steer him towards the "genocidal racist murderer" group because he dared exercise his legal right to express his opinion/run his business as he pleases.

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08-25-2011, 11:52 AM
  #46
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Nearly everybody in the United States speaks English. If you want to buy a cheesesteak in the United States, it would be best to speak English instead of a language nobody at the place would understand.

And the sign does say "please".

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08-25-2011, 11:58 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I know right? Is it tradition somewhere to gather around and bash the recently deceased? The guy isn't a war criminal, yet people are beginning to steer him towards the "genocidal racist murderer" group because he dared exercise his legal right to express his opinion/run his business as he pleases.
exactly. The guy has every right to ask orders be placed in English. That does not make him a racist.

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08-25-2011, 12:02 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by RevUpThoseFlyers View Post
Nearly everybody in the United States speaks English. If you want to buy a cheesesteak in the United States, it would be best to speak English instead of a language nobody at the place would understand.

And the sign does say "please".
Three words at that:

One Wiz Wit.

Don't think learning to say that actually requires someone to "learn to speak English."

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08-25-2011, 12:05 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
No it isn't... it is a restaurant that is public and is located in a neighbourhood that has several nationalities settling in there...


In any case, yes I do believe that businesses in the US do not have the right to turn away customers for lack of communication skills... and they should be required to adjust their operations just like they have to for other people.
I am pretty sure that the only part of my statement that couldn't be argued was the fact that the sign was on private property.

Also, as a business owner, it didn't affect his business at all. He understood his place is a tourist location, not a local restaurant meant to serve the locals. I would imagine the sign increased his press and business. I also support the learning of English when someone immigrates to the USA. It only makes sense.

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08-25-2011, 12:11 PM
  #50
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In much of this thread it seems that not many people seem to agree with me that merchants are depriving people of their civil rights by refusing to serve them if they don't do things exactly their way... Beyond a person's views on whether people should learn English or not is the fact that all people have the same human rights in this country... as long as the customer is not abusing their rights they should be allowed to purchase and use the services others are offered.

Besides that, a smart businessman should go the extra mile and should try to work with the residents of the neighbourhood... But that was Vento's choice; IMO turning them away should not have been.

People in the Philly Area probably heard his Public Service radio spots that he purchased that ended with the phrase: "If you don't agree than you are a part of the problem" (paraphrased)... Joey did not like illegal immigration and spending taxpayer's dollars on them; he sadly grouped his Spanish speaking would-be customers in that category and refused them their civil rights... I am by no means a Liberal, and classify myself as Moderate and I am a second generation American whose mother grew up in Europe... I was offended by Geno's policy and boycotted them since the sign was put up.

I have traveled in Europe, Mexico, Asia, the Caribbean and French speaking Canada and have been served without problem when I courteously spoke English... I have never been refused nor turned away, I have always been able to work with the merchants and always have felt respected; I hate to think of people people in his country not being treated with like respect.

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