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Old
08-25-2011, 12:23 AM
  #251
Paranoid Android
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Can you prove that most NHL teams have 5 insured contracts? I've never heard that. The reason he was uninsured was because he had a history of concussions and the underwriters wouldn't touch him. He was coming off a career year, yet no other GMs would bite on him because they couldn't get insurance on him. Poile took the bait, epic fail, so we got Fisher. Fine, whatever.

And how do you know the latest reports were too optimistic? Lombardi himself says his goal is to be ready for training camp. If he misses his goal by 6 weeks, he's still ready by December.
Sure.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/D...ven-Years.aspx

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Each team "pays a premium based on the salaries of its five highest-paid players, but is free to allocate that coverage how it wishes." NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said that "typically, a team will extend coverage to as many as seven players."
Can you prove that no other GMs would bite on Lombardi? How do you know that he didn't have multiple offers from other teams?

I think you are misinterpreting what Lombardi is saying here. Of course his goal is to be ready as soon as possible. That doesn't mean it's going to happen. Every NHLer's goal is to win the Stanley Cup. Does that mean they are all going to do it? What I said before was a paraphrase from Burke himself. They are going to slowly ease him in. December is way too long for us to wait. Again I ask, do you really think Lombardi is the answer to our scoring problems?

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08-25-2011, 01:12 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
How many times have we made a trade between the start of the season and February 1st? I honestly don't know, but just don't really remember many. I could be wrong, but it just seems that teh flurry of activity is in the 2 weeks after July 1 and two weeks prior to the deadline...

And as to having to make the deal when we did, that is absolutely false. Toronto would have gladly robbed us blind at any time. We could have offered that trade at any moment between then and now, or any time in the future and they would have taken Lombardi off our hands for Franson. It was that big of a no brainer for them.
Wow. Really? Imn going to have to spell this out?

The reason the trade had to be made when it did was the whole point of the trade was to save money. If we wait until midseason WE would have been paying lombardi and franson that whole time. So to accomplish what we were trying to do meant trading before the season.

Since the money is now saved, it can be used any time, either now, midseason, at the deadline, or next year. Its not wasted, its being saved for whenever it is needed

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08-25-2011, 04:55 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
And who was the dodo bird GM whose signature is at the bottom of the uninsured contract? I never said we didn't have the talent to fill a 3rd pair slot. Though it's all speculation that we do seeing as none of Josi, Ekholm, or Ellis have played a single shift in the NHL. Franson has 160 NHL games under his belt and 57 points while playing "3rd pair" minutes for us. He's not a 3rd pair for most any other NHL team. But that's not the point, you don't trade away assets just because you have the depth to replace them, especially when the return is so nebulous.

We may spend that $3.7 mil on another asset, or we may stuff that $3.7 in the pockets of the owners. Who can predict if we'll even be buying. If we're not buyers, then then we'll be left wondering how much we might have been able to use Franson's shot from the point and crisp passing and Lombardi's wheels (should he be healthy, and it sounds like he'll be ready).

That makes the timing even more curious.....why not wait until we know for sure whether Lombardi would be able to play? Why trade him 4 months prior to opening night? If he does play, then:

- Toronto gets a young, big defenseman who can contribute offensively, play on their 2nd pair and power play + a good 2nd line center with great motor.

- Nashville gets the possibility of a player in the "future", maybe, if things work out, we'll see.

That's robbery my friend.
Your misguided diatribes are either the result of willful ignorance or blatant skewing of facts ... I haven't quite figured out which one. Contract insurance was a major point of discussion and learning when Sullivan went down. The limited number of insured contracts is in the public domain. If you chose to not pay attention or look it up before posting, well, either way it's on you.

Franson is a 3rd pair d-man with the potential for 2nd pair duty if he improves in several key areas ... just as Spaling has the potential to be a top 6 forward if he improves. For now, Franson is a bottom pair guy and Spaling is a bottom six forward.

It cost the Preds about $18,817 per DAY for Lombardi. Dumping that cost is a good thing, even if we did move a guy with a decent shot from the point to make it happen. A concussed player who still isn't skating and a third pair blueliner gone ... and people act like we shipped off Gordie Howe and Ray Bourque in their primes.

Even if the team doesn't spend the $3.7mil it saved ... it comes out ahead. Franson is replaceable with guys we have in the pipeline, Lombardi played less than two games for the Preds, and we're paying less for a improvement on d and no impact to the front lines.

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08-25-2011, 05:29 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
I had a nice long post regarding some of the points made but it got eaten by the cyber gods. Here are the bullet points.

1. Franson has a skill set NONE of our defenseman have. Getting pucks to the net with a slap shot or wrist shot to force rebounds. Hornqvist is going to absolutely cry for the loss of Franson. Go back and watch the film on him.
Franson assisted on two of Hornqvist's goals all season. None after New Years. Not sure why Hornqvist will cry for a guy who wasn't helping his stats.

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2. Franson was Weber's close friend. While that may not matter to us, I am sure it mattered to Weber and probably didn't help in negotiating his contract.
Devil's advocate ... if Shea isn't insisting on a one year deal until the arb hearing, Poile knows what he has locked up long term and can use that information to budget other players.

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3. Poile needed to have a deal in place with another team BEFORE he traded lombardi's contract instead of ASSUMING that someone would become available. Don't count chickens before they hatch.
He can't sign FA's without the money, can't get the money without clearing dead contracts. Catch 22.

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4. If Poile truly believes Spaling has the potential to be a top six forward I would counter yes Spaling does... on THIS team simply because we don't really have a whole lot of options. Spaling wouldn't even be on some other team's rosters. I embrace that we are blue collared, but sometimes you are asking too much of guys.
Spaling was a scorer in juniors. He needs to improve several aspects of his game, but, then again so does Franson.

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5. Legwand and Erat will never change... unless you give them better talent. The Karyia years confirmed this. Get Erat and Legwand a competent scoring partner and they will do better. Don't make Legwand be a passer. A guy like Little or Andrei Kostitsyn fits this perfectly. Both can shoot and playmake AND are great in the defensive zone and can kill penalties.
Watch the games from 31DEC10-end of round 2 again.
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6. I am so sick and tired of people treating Ellis like a god because
A. He is a poor skater
B. He gets pushed around by bigger forwards
C. His trade value is never going to get higher. Now is the time to move him in favor of a forward piece we need.
Nobody is treating him like a god, but, he does possess a skillset that this team lacks ... namely a QB for the PP. That addresses the one area where the team is below average in scoring.
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7. I have mad respect for Poile. I think he does a fantastic job running this organization and team... BUT I think he really f'd this offseason. Instead of riding the wave of success we have, once again, subjected ourselves to another 5-10 season. I, for one, am not ok with that. We have 3 WORLD talents on this team. We have a good supporting cast but with the addition of just ONE 50 point player we are suddenly a GREAT team with a GREAT supporting cast for the big 3. If Poile's window of opportunity speech was a legit feeling, then he needs to get on it and make it happen.
So, one more Legwand or Erat and we're great? One more SK? That is the bar you just set.

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8. He said higher payroll. Prove it.
We're not that far off now when you factor in the callups that will happen.

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9. All you people saying that Lombardi was moved to add an offensive piece, I believed you until Poile didn't make a move. Now we will probably wait till the trade deadline to make a move and a team will have already paid the majority of a players salary for the year. What is the point? Poile shouldn't have assumed someone was going to become available.
What offensive pieces have moved since the deal? What FAs are there? Worst case we save over $18k per day.

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10. Wilson either needs to be given top six minutes or traded for someone better. The kid has talent, but he doesn't show commitment or consistency. Either he grows up into his own this year, or he needs to be moved for someone who has (aka Little etc) for the betterment of this team.
Wilson needs to EARN top six minutes. He is maddeningly inconsistent. Minutes are not given. Using that logic, Dumont should have been given top three minutes based on his past performance and salary.

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Old
08-25-2011, 07:10 AM
  #255
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I don't see how Poile f'd up as some of you think. He cleared roster space for kids who proved they can play last year in the middle of a playoff hunt. Let's see, kids who produced just as much as veterans at a fraction of the cost with the ability to grow into larger roles because ice time has been freed for them. Terrible move Poile.

As far as Ellis goes, his offensive numbers in juniors are some of the best, ever. His leadership is unquestioned. His PP QB'ing skills are probably better than anyone we have. He's won where ever he's played. He was sent back to the juniors to work on his game and he ran with it, doing exactly what Trotz and Poile wanted him to do. While Franson maybe missed, he was given the opportunity to succeed and never really grew as a player. Blum coming in probably made the team realize these kids can step in and contribute. How does a kid with no experience come in and become our third best defenseman pretty much right off the bat? Well, Poile and Trotz must feel the same about Ellis, Josi, Ekholm and some of the others we have in the minors if they were willing to give up on Franson. Also, Franson will get third pairing minutes in Toronto and when he doesn't use his size, their fans will complain much like ours did.

While skill sets are nice to have, it's what they accomplish on the ice that matters. People say Ellis is too small. Well, same thing was said about Sullivan and St. Louis. Which leads me to a point, most of the trades Poile's made were bad or poor? Picking up Sullivan for 2 seconds was bad? Trading for Vokoun when we were first established as a team was a bad move? I'll stop there since there was a thread for this a few months back and I think we had more good Poile moves than bad ones so that line of reasoning isn't going to go very far. Remember, he's also the guy that got Weber in the second round and Rinne in the sixth round so I think he and his staff know what's happening.

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Old
08-25-2011, 08:42 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Since the money is now saved, it can be used any time, either now, midseason, at the deadline, or next year. Its not wasted, its being saved for whenever it is needed
Are you sure about that? Because I'm not. I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm in the do something now (or preferably, several weeks ago when players who could provide some actual value were actually available) crowd.

The only thing that's going to be available is the same overpriced junk that's always available(think Hemsky, or a bunch of crap from the Florida Panthers).

And I don't buy the whole argument that it's better to save it for a later addition. In what world is it better to but a lesser team on the ice in October so that you can make a trade deadline addition?

God forbid we actually put a team on the ice in October that might actually challenge for the division, instead of eeking into a 7-8 seed.

I'm more than willing to be wrong - and Bergfors is the missing piece and scores 30, and Wilson can actually get on the ice, Washington implodes and Ovechkin is available at the deadline, and our PP actually is not a 2 minute black hole of offense and we can get to the WCF or SCF. But I don't see it happening.

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08-25-2011, 08:47 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Are you sure about that? Because I'm not. I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm in the do something now (or preferably, several weeks ago when players who could provide some actual value were actually available) crowd.

The only thing that's going to be available is the same overpriced junk that's always available(think Hemsky, or a bunch of crap from the Florida Panthers).

And I don't buy the whole argument that it's better to save it for a later addition. In what world is it better to but a lesser team on the ice in October so that you can make a trade deadline addition?

God forbid we actually put a team on the ice in October that might actually challenge for the division, instead of eeking into a 7-8 seed.

I'm more than willing to be wrong - and Bergfors is the missing piece and scores 30, and Wilson can actually get on the ice, Washington implodes and Ovechkin is available at the deadline, and our PP actually is not a 2 minute black hole of offense and we can get to the WCF or SCF. But I don't see it happening.
Yet there wasn't one guy available to fill the needs you're talking about. We've rehashed the Carter and Richards deals to no end. Brad Richards was never coming here. Other than that, who was a good option for us that we wouldn't have overpaid for and filled our offensive needs? There wasn't one unless we were willing to part with Suter, Weber or Rinne.

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08-25-2011, 08:59 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Yet there wasn't one guy available to fill the needs you're talking about. We've rehashed the Carter and Richards deals to no end. Brad Richards was never coming here. Other than that, who was a good option for us that we wouldn't have overpaid for and filled our offensive needs? There wasn't one unless we were willing to part with Suter, Weber or Rinne.
No one, except Richards.

But who's going to be available at the trade deadline that won't be expensive and risky?

You balk at giving someone like Gagne or Cole the 4 mil that we have in the bank doing no one any good, but you'd rather give up a top prospect and a top pick for 20 games of an injury plagued schlub like Hemsky?

There's risk involved in every player who's ever going to be available - else they wouldn't be available.

You're willing to give Poile the benefit of the doubt. I'm not. I've seen the same team get the same results, year after year after year. We don't go out and fix the problems we have. We don't even draft anyone other than defensemen or forwards known more for their "all-around game" (a nice way of saying they're good players who can't score).

At least before, I could say that we were up against the budget, and we could not financially do any better.

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08-25-2011, 09:01 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Other than that, who was a good option for us that we wouldn't have overpaid for and filled our offensive needs?
Overpaid is the key, and it's thrown around every single summer. At this point we know what free agents are going to command, it's not overpayment it's just the market and if we're ever going to make a move it's the price that has to be paid. There is talent to be had, it's just a matter of paying for it.

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08-25-2011, 09:35 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Franson assisted on two of Hornqvist's goals all season. None after New Years. Not sure why Hornqvist will cry for a guy who wasn't helping his stats.

Devil's advocate ... if Shea isn't insisting on a one year deal until the arb hearing, Poile knows what he has locked up long term and can use that information to budget other players.

He can't sign FA's without the money, can't get the money without clearing dead contracts. Catch 22.

Spaling was a scorer in juniors. He needs to improve several aspects of his game, but, then again so does Franson.

Watch the games from 31DEC10-end of round 2 again.

Nobody is treating him like a god, but, he does possess a skillset that this team lacks ... namely a QB for the PP. That addresses the one area where the team is below average in scoring.

So, one more Legwand or Erat and we're great? One more SK? That is the bar you just set.

We're not that far off now when you factor in the callups that will happen.

What offensive pieces have moved since the deal? What FAs are there? Worst case we save over $18k per day.

Wilson needs to EARN top six minutes. He is maddeningly inconsistent. Minutes are not given. Using that logic, Dumont should have been given top three minutes based on his past performance and salary.
1. I was using Hornqvist as an example
2. Maybe, but I doubt Weber saw it that way
3. I agree with your catch 22, except something needed to be lined up via trade as soon as the Franson deal went down. Instead of hoping something opened up, Poile should've made something happen.
4. Spaling doesn't have the hands nor the scoring touch to be a top six forward in the NHL.
5. And yes just one more Legwand or Erat is exactly what I want. I don't need a 80 point guy, but we need someone who compliments those two. Paul Karyia wasn't an 80 point guy, he was a 60-70 guy. Ultimately, all I want is someone who can take some of the scoring pressure off of Erat, Legwand, and Hornqvist. We have a hole in the top six. Is Bergfors the answer? I don't know, but I wouldn't trust Bergfors or Wilson to answer it.
6. I didn't want any of the FA's I want a trade
7. I agree, wilson does need to earn his minutes but we aren't in a position where we can wait for him... we are in win now mode. He is our best asset and should be moved for a piece of win now value.

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08-25-2011, 09:49 AM
  #261
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2. Maybe, but I doubt Weber saw it that way
if this is true then Weber is a real douchecanoe. What professional would not realize that hockey is a business and stuff happens. Wah wah you traded my friend so Im gonna take my toys and go home....

I think thats the lamest thing I have ever seen you type, and usually I agree with a lot that you post... so unless you are getting this from someone who knows weber, im calling BS.

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08-25-2011, 10:01 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
if this is true then Weber is a real douchecanoe. What professional would not realize that hockey is a business and stuff happens. Wah wah you traded my friend so Im gonna take my toys and go home....

I think thats the lamest thing I have ever seen you type, and usually I agree with a lot that you post... so unless you are getting this from someone who knows weber, im calling BS.
I'm not saying he didn't sign long term because we traded his friend... I am simply saying that he probably valued Franson on this club more than management did. Maybe he overvalued his friend's importance to the team. I am sure weber is professional, but professional or not trading away someone's friend is going to sting on a personal level. It is inevitable. Its human.

And thanks haha I feel like not a lot of people agree with my opinions about the team.

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08-25-2011, 10:14 AM
  #263
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1. I was using Hornqvist as an example
2. Maybe, but I doubt Weber saw it that way
3. I agree with your catch 22, except something needed to be lined up via trade as soon as the Franson deal went down. Instead of hoping something opened up, Poile should've made something happen.
4. Spaling doesn't have the hands nor the scoring touch to be a top six forward in the NHL.
5. And yes just one more Legwand or Erat is exactly what I want. I don't need a 80 point guy, but we need someone who compliments those two. Paul Karyia wasn't an 80 point guy, he was a 60-70 guy. Ultimately, all I want is someone who can take some of the scoring pressure off of Erat, Legwand, and Hornqvist. We have a hole in the top six. Is Bergfors the answer? I don't know, but I wouldn't trust Bergfors or Wilson to answer it.
6. I didn't want any of the FA's I want a trade
7. I agree, wilson does need to earn his minutes but we aren't in a position where we can wait for him... we are in win now mode. He is our best asset and should be moved for a piece of win now value.
1. a flawed example.
2. Weber had already set course on his one year plan before the Lombardi/Franson trade.
3. Worst case, the team saves over $3.7mil by moving Lombardi and Franson then buying out Lebda. Best case, the team is in position to afford a $4mil + contract AND keep the big three.
4. A bit premature to write him off. Spaling probably tops out at a 3rd line type guy who can handle limited stretches of 2nd line time, but, he still has time to develop. Funny how so many here are saying Poile is overestimating Spaling's potential while doing the same thing with Franson's.
5. We have Erat, Legwand, Fisher, Hornqvist, Kostitsyn all as 50 point guys in their careers and hope to see Wilson and O'Reilly make that jump. Oh, I forgot Bergfors at 44 points. So we need another? We need someone a bit more dynamic than the collection of message board whipping boys.
6. Notice how few trades there have been of the type player you claim to want since the Lombardi deal. Like I said "what offensive pieces have moved?"
7. With the glut of 3rd liners competing for the #6 slot, we can wait for Wilson to develop. Rushing things doesn't help.

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08-25-2011, 10:28 AM
  #264
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1. a flawed example.
2. Weber had already set course on his one year plan before the Lombardi/Franson trade.
3. Worst case, the team saves over $3.7mil by moving Lombardi and Franson then buying out Lebda. Best case, the team is in position to afford a $4mil + contract AND keep the big three.
4. A bit premature to write him off. Spaling probably tops out at a 3rd line type guy who can handle limited stretches of 2nd line time, but, he still has time to develop. Funny how so many here are saying Poile is overestimating Spaling's potential while doing the same thing with Franson's.
5. We have Erat, Legwand, Fisher, Hornqvist, Kostitsyn all as 50 point guys in their careers and hope to see Wilson and O'Reilly make that jump. Oh, I forgot Bergfors at 44 points. So we need another? We need someone a bit more dynamic than the collection of message board whipping boys.
6. Notice how few trades there have been of the type player you claim to want since the Lombardi deal. Like I said "what offensive pieces have moved?"
7. With the glut of 3rd liners competing for the #6 slot, we can wait for Wilson to develop. Rushing things doesn't help.
1. so be it. I default to you on that one.

2. Maybe. You don't know that and I don't know that. I am simply offering a possible factor for why things went down the way they did.

3. Saving money is great! Unless we are committed to winning. If that money is used I will be happier. And don't tell me we are waiting for the deadline. At that point a different team has already paid the majority of said player's money. Why not start the season with added offense instead of scrambling for an over priced player at the deadline. Start competing for a division title now, not midway through the season.

4. Spaling needs to improve many aspects of his game before we put him on the 2nd line.

5. You named 5 guys. Bergfors had 36 points not 44. No idea where you pulled that number from. If one of the top 5 guys down all the sudden we have a real hole. Depth is important. 6 guys who can touch 50 points is better than 5. Who are you going to turn to? Wilson? O'Reilly? Neither of them have proven their consistency.

6. Point taken, but that doesn't mean we can't move something.

7. How many more years are we going to have the big three? You don't let opportunities like this go. If we are going to win, we need to go for it this year. Fan base is at an all time high. We have three world class players. What are you waiting for?


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08-25-2011, 10:43 AM
  #265
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2. Maybe. You don't know that and I don't know that. I am simply offering a possible factor for why things went down the way they did.

3. Saving money is great! Unless we are committed to winning. If that money is used I will be happier. And don't tell me we are waiting for the deadline. At that point a different team has already paid the majority of said player's money. Why not start the season with added offense instead of scrambling for an over priced player at the deadline. Start competing for a division title now, not midway through the season.

5. You named 5 guys. Bergfors had 36 points not 44. No idea where you pulled that number from. If one of the top 5 guys down all the sudden we have a real hole. Depth is important. 6 guys who can touch 50 points is better than 5. Who are you going to turn to? Wilson? O'Reilly? Neither of them have proven their consistency.

7. How many more years are we going to have the big three? You don't let opportunities like this go. If we are going to win, we need to go for it this year. Fan base is at an all time high. We have three world class players. What are you waiting for?
2. True, we don't know ... but the decision to pursue a one year deal came BEFORE the trade, therefore the trade didn't result in the decision on length of term.

3. Very Liepold-esque. It only makes sense to spend that money if the right player comes available. Since the trade, that hasn't happened.

5. Bergfors had 44 points in 09-10, 21g, 23a. 36 pts last year. Wilson had 34 in ten more games played.

7. How long we have the big three depends on the next 9 months. The shoot the wad now idea was tried by Liepold and didn't work. Once again ... name the players who, since we traded Lombardi, moved to another team and meet any of the criteria you're looking for.

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08-25-2011, 11:37 AM
  #266
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Wow. Really? Imn going to have to spell this out?

The reason the trade had to be made when it did was the whole point of the trade was to save money. If we wait until midseason WE would have been paying lombardi and franson that whole time. So to accomplish what we were trying to do meant trading before the season.

Since the money is now saved, it can be used any time, either now, midseason, at the deadline, or next year. Its not wasted, its being saved for whenever it is needed
Volde, how much have we paid any players between when the trade happened and now? It didn't have to happen then if the plan was to get a deadline rental. We could have waited to see what would happen with Lombardi's health. Hell, he even started making comments right after the deal happened that he was feeling better.

Poile could have waited until training camp, and if he wasn't ready, then let Burke bend Poile over.

The timing of the move makes even less sense than the move itself.

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08-25-2011, 11:38 AM
  #267
Legionnaire11
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Once again ... name the players who, since we traded Lombardi, moved to another team and meet any of the criteria you're looking for.
Why is this the criteria for determining if the Preds could have made a deal? Do we know if other players who have not been traded are available? Do we know if Poile has called any other GM's to start trade talks? Do we know if other GM's have called Poile to start trade talks?

There's too many unknowns for you to base the market and grade Poile only on players who have been traded. And we're never going to know the answers to these questions, though I believe it's extremely likely that a trade is available at almost any moment.

I'm personally still holding out hope that a move is made just before camp. If not i'm afraid we're waiting until February, which may be okay if Wilson and Bergfors step up. Everyone has been riding Wilson hard, he's a good player who still has a lot of potential, he's still maturing and hopefully learned something while watching the playoffs last season (see: Suter).

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08-25-2011, 11:39 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Poile could have waited until training camp, and if he wasn't ready, then let Burke bend Poile over.

The timing of the move makes even less sense than the move itself.
Not particularly, if we wait until camp and find out Lombardi isn't healthy, who is going to trade for him? And if he comes into camp ready to go, there's no reason to trade him anyway.

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08-25-2011, 12:36 PM
  #269
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Here is a list of all of the free agents signed so far:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69926

We signed 12 of them if I counted correctly. Feel free to go through and pick names out of forwards you think would have helped us, and let's see how many we can come up with. Then, compare that number of forwards to the number of teams in the league...

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08-25-2011, 12:44 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Volde, how much have we paid any players between when the trade happened and now? It didn't have to happen then if the plan was to get a deadline rental. We could have waited to see what would happen with Lombardi's health. Hell, he even started making comments right after the deal happened that he was feeling better.

Poile could have waited until training camp, and if he wasn't ready, then let Burke bend Poile over.

The timing of the move makes even less sense than the move itself.
I dont know if players start receiving their salary for the year beginning July 1 or not until the season starts but I imagine its July 1 so the clock was likely ticking. And even if it wasnt, waiting to see what happens with lombardis health would have been futile, because since we already acquired fisher we dont even have a roster spot for him in the unlikley event that he was ready to go come october... so he had to go. And waiting until the trade deadline would have meant paying him 3/4ths of this years salary.

dont get me wrong, i hate it that we had to make the move, but it was better than eating lombardis salary.

franson wont be missed that badly, I suspect

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08-25-2011, 01:00 PM
  #271
Roman Yoshi
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Here is a list of all of the free agents signed so far:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69926

We signed 12 of them if I counted correctly. Feel free to go through and pick names out of forwards you think would have helped us, and let's see how many we can come up with. Then, compare that number of forwards to the number of teams in the league...
Once again, I never said I wanted to sign anyone in free agency. I just want to make a trade. I know trading sucks because we have to give up good things to get good things, but I truly believe that is the only we are going to break through this year.

I believe Colin Wilson is a good player, but right now I am of the mindset of win now. We have been building for years. Now is the time we reap the rewards of drafting well. Having the big three past this year is not even close to a for sure thing. Some of you are so worried about future years that you can't see the potential in winning a cup now. Sacrifices have to be made to achieve victory. If Wilson has to be moved to get a person who can contribute now (Little etc) then I am all for it.

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08-25-2011, 01:23 PM
  #272
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It wasn't necessarily aimed at you, Joe. I've created a thread with an extensive list of players broken up in ranges of salary. I've given my two cents on a lot of those players, and the likelihood of being able to trade for them. Now I've provided a list of all of the free agents who have been signed so far, which also has a link to all remaining free agents, in an attempt to show just how few players were actually available for all 30 teams to look at. The only reason I'm doing this is because these discussions have been going in circles for weeks now. One side is saying that there simply aren't a lot of options, so nothing immediate should be expected. The other side is tired of waiting for Poile to make a move, and is skeptical that he even planned on making one at all. At this point we need to add in some tangible ideas for moves rather than simply bickering at one another.

(once again I had a long post looking at various free agents who were signed by other teams who I, and possibly others, felt may have been an option for improving the forward corps, and once again ****ing Firefox screwed up. I guess I should've actually switched to Chrome when I said I was going too... )

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08-25-2011, 02:25 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Here is a list of all of the free agents signed so far:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=69926

We signed 12 of them if I counted correctly. Feel free to go through and pick names out of forwards you think would have helped us, and let's see how many we can come up with. Then, compare that number of forwards to the number of teams in the league...
I found 7 or 8 guys who would have looked good on one of our lines on opening night before I stopped looking. Would have looked even better when the inevitable injuries start to hit - a heck of alot better than some schmoe fresh off the plane from Milwaukee.

I know not all of those guys are fits, not all would want to play here, etc. I just don't buy that there wasn't one single free agent or trade possibility that would have made our team better next season.

Also, we're never going to be bidding against 30 teams. Probably 15 aren't buyers. Half of those don't have cash to spend. Really, your probably only competing against 5-6 teams max for a given free agent.

Just about any one of those FA's would have been more helpful than several million bucks stashed away in a cookie jar. If that 4 million buys 1 goal, it was worth it.

Everyone so convinced that we're actually going to put those cash savings to good use. I'll believe it when I see it. Heck, we made an offer to our captain that embarassed us (yes, I understand the lowball nature of one side of arbitration). We could at least have increased that a mil and saved some face for all the good that cash is doing us.

We have a solid team that's a piece away from serious Cup contention, and the best thing we can say about this offseason is we saved some money.


Last edited by RaiderDoug: 08-25-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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08-25-2011, 03:04 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Why is this the criteria for determining if the Preds could have made a deal? Do we know if other players who have not been traded are available? Do we know if Poile has called any other GM's to start trade talks? Do we know if other GM's have called Poile to start trade talks?

There's too many unknowns for you to base the market and grade Poile only on players who have been traded. And we're never going to know the answers to these questions, though I believe it's extremely likely that a trade is available at almost any moment.

I'm personally still holding out hope that a move is made just before camp. If not i'm afraid we're waiting until February, which may be okay if Wilson and Bergfors step up. Everyone has been riding Wilson hard, he's a good player who still has a lot of potential, he's still maturing and hopefully learned something while watching the playoffs last season (see: Suter).
When nobody is moving players, it isn't a Poile is up to nothing situation, it's a league wide condition. As wild as some of the rants are you would think that star players are moving for ECHL level talent and the Preds are the only ones not in on the action. Right now there is no action to get in on.

Poile has the team in a position to pay rather handsomely if the right player comes along and saving a lot of money with the lack of Lombardi's dead contract if that move doesn't present itself until some point in the season (18.8k per day saved). Too bad there is a large portion of the fan base that is too busy clamoring for something that they can't see that many of the proposals they make are counterproductive.

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08-25-2011, 03:14 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
When nobody is moving players, it isn't a Poile is up to nothing situation, it's a league wide condition. As wild as some of the rants are you would think that star players are moving for ECHL level talent and the Preds are the only ones not in on the action. Right now there is no action to get in on.

Poile has the team in a position to pay rather handsomely if the right player comes along and saving a lot of money with the lack of Lombardi's dead contract if that move doesn't present itself until some point in the season (18.8k per day saved). Too bad there is a large portion of the fan base that is too busy clamoring for something that they can't see that many of the proposals they make are counterproductive.
In your opinion they are counterproductive. Everything here is speculation and opinion. Furthermore you have no idea what goes behind the scenes around the league. I seriously doubt you are getting inside information from GM's around the league about the trade landscape.

Players don't just fall into GM's laps. You have to be aggressive. Poile isn't. It's a fact and a fact a large portion of the base disagrees with.

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