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RIP Joey Vento

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Old
08-25-2011, 01:58 PM
  #101
Long Duk Dong
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Yes, that is exactly what he should have done... ****ing embarrass them.

With that I'm done.

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08-25-2011, 02:00 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
They can have rules as long as they adhere to the law... and -- this is key -- they do not take away one's civil rights.

They can ban dogs from the esablishment... but cannot ban guide/help dogs for but one example.
That's just it, dude. They weren't taking away anyone's civil rights. He isn't saying, "You can't have a cheesesteak." He's saying, "You can't have a cheesesteak here, but you can if you can order it in English."

Going back to the Civil Rights Act -- which is actually unconstitutional if you really get down to it -- a black person cannot magically become a white person. A person CAN learn English if they don't know it.

As to your "one example" there are explicit LAWS concerning guide/help dogs for a reason. There aren't any laws, as far as I'm aware, that you have to provide service to people even if they can't communicate with you.

As said, the sign and everything it stood for was ethnocentric, jingoistic, etc. and just plain *ing a**hole behavior, but he was well within his right to do so.

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08-25-2011, 02:02 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Vento was essentially an "agent of intolerance." He didn't do anything wrong from a "legal" perspective and he was within his rights to request that his patrons order in English however his underlying intolerance was a form of bigotry. The Jewish perspective under the Nazis while an extreme example offers some historical perspective in the dangers of intolerance. Oftentimes, it metastasizes into more which includes violence. Once you dehumanize people it makes it easier to kill them.

Also consider the nativist movement in the US and some of its current manefestations that will remain nameless. Furthermore, the innuendo that all those unable to order a cheesteak in English are illegals and most likely mexicans at that is also a slippery slope...
It's an amazingly long stretch to compare a guy not being able to understand people who don't order food in English to the Holocaust, the systematic destruction of a race of people, regardless of what language they spoke.

If he had a sign that said "No Hispanic Patrons Allowed" that would be a bit closer to the mark.

edit: Don't get me wrong though, it's still a dickish move.

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Old
08-25-2011, 02:04 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
The asking is not... refusing to work with them and do business with them is.
Wrong, restaurants aren't allowed to deny service based on race, but something like not being able to communicate with a costumer is in no way a violation of their civil rights, and any attempt to make Joey Vento out to be a racist would be foolish, he has sold thousands and thousands of steaks to hispanics over the years.

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08-25-2011, 02:04 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Did you mean to post this?

No what I meant was that what you said was like Joey's sign.

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08-25-2011, 02:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
As said, the sign and everything it stood for was ethnocentric, jingoistic, etc. and just plain *ing a**hole behavior, but he was well within his right to do so.
Exactly..

On the other hand it has implications and that was my point. No he's not Hitler..he is an agent of intolerance spewing out nativist type rhetoric which is how it always starts out. Some people are missing the nuance of my point but I realize I'm dealing with a sports forum...

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08-25-2011, 02:14 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Exactly..

On the other hand it has implications and that was my point. No he's not Hitler..he is an agent of intolerance spewing out nativist type rhetoric which is how it always starts out. Some people are missing the nuance of my point but I realize I'm dealing with a sports forum...
Meh, this kind of thing has always existed in America, and at times it has been far worse than it is now. It will likely always exist in America. In nearly every country on earth, it's worse. I'm not terribly worried about Vento's followers mobilizing, politicizing, becoming emperor, dissolving the senate, and blowing up Alderaan. Though while remaining vague, there are some people lately who have made me go "hmmm."

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08-25-2011, 02:15 PM
  #108
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Obviously it is not against the law as he has gotten away with it... But IMO the essence of it took away the civil rights of those who ordered in Spanish.

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08-25-2011, 02:19 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Obviously it is not against the law as he has gotten away with it... But IMO the essence of it took away the civil rights of those who ordered in Spanish.
un bistec con queso por favor...

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08-25-2011, 02:19 PM
  #110
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Reading around him, sounds like someone with a great heart, willing to help and a great person to have in the community. Those saying it's racist to have that sign are what's wrong with the world in terms of national identity. You don't go to a restaurant in Paris and speak Japanese, you speak French out of respect. The same goes for every country in the world, you speak their language. The world needs more people like Joey.

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08-25-2011, 02:22 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
And this is the moral of the story. This "civil rights" idea should not be used in this case, due to it not being anything related to racism.
"Civil rights" do not have to be restricted to issues of race. That being said, I believe he had every right to run his business the way he saw fit, even to turn away customers for whatever reason he wanted. That doesn't make it socially legitimate or good business practice, though. He came off as somewhat xenophobic, and Geno's doesn't even make great cheesesteaks to begin with. And, as mentioned before, the United States of America doesn't have a de jure official language.

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08-25-2011, 02:22 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Exactly..

On the other hand it has implications and that was my point. No he's not Hitler..he is an agent of intolerance spewing out nativist type rhetoric which is how it always starts out. Some people are missing the nuance of my point but I realize I'm dealing with a sports forum...
You preach tolerance when it conforms to your views, yet insult others who disagree. Perhaps the "agent of intolerance" and the "stormtrooper of hypocracy" is you.

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08-25-2011, 02:25 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by John Wayne View Post
You preach tolerance when it conforms to your views, yet insult others who disagree. Perhaps the "agent of intolerance" is you.
I'm intolerant of ignorance..you are right!

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08-25-2011, 02:27 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by John Wayne View Post
You preach tolerance when it conforms to your views, yet insult others who disagree. Perhaps the "agent of intolerance" is you.

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Old
08-25-2011, 02:28 PM
  #115
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08-25-2011, 02:29 PM
  #116
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I might need to make a new thread rule: Every post needs to have some form of smiley.


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08-25-2011, 02:30 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I might need to make a new thread rule: Every post needs to have some form of smiley.


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08-25-2011, 02:35 PM
  #118
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08-25-2011, 02:43 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Obviously it is not against the law as he has gotten away with it... But IMO the essence of it took away the civil rights of those who ordered in Spanish.
Then how is it not also wrong that he has to learn spanish to understand their order?

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08-25-2011, 02:44 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Reading around him, sounds like someone with a great heart, willing to help and a great person to have in the community. Those saying it's racist to have that sign are what's wrong with the world in terms of national identity. You don't go to a restaurant in Paris and speak Japanese, you speak French out of respect. The same goes for every country in the world, you speak their language. The world needs more people like Joey.
So, if you don't know a lick of a foreign language you shouldn't travel to that country?

I mean, that's BS, and doesn't really mesh reality. In may travels through Europe pretty much every place I went to had an English menu (even if I didn't need it) and a server that spoke English. That, however, was a market driven thing -- if you're in well traveled areas they are used to dealing with various languages.

As far as national identity, I don't want any part of a national identity that bases itself around that type of dick behavior. Especially given that Spanish is such a massively growing language group in the US... some folks of our "national identity" are going to have to have a reality check in the near future. There are more than a few places in America where the "no service if you don't speak English" policy could be turned around as "no service if you don't speak Spanish."

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08-25-2011, 02:46 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
Then how is it not also wrong that he has to learn spanish to understand their order?
It would be pretty *ing easy for them to simply have a Spanish-language menu that the person could point to.

The whole thing was pure dick on his part. There are not, however, any laws against being an a**hole in this country.

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08-25-2011, 03:04 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It would be pretty *ing easy for them to simply have a Spanish-language menu that the person could point to.

The whole thing was pure dick on his part. There are not, however, any laws against being an a**hole in this country.
What would be the point of that? How would that be any more efficient then having them point at an English menu?

"If I can't understand you, you might not get the sandwich you thought you ordered."

Simple concept.

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08-25-2011, 03:05 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
sucks to see people die

but straight talk: dude was a racist and the discriminatory signs that place accrued over the years is a disgrace.
straight talk: go visit the place and see the sign before making uninformed statements.

the gave over $100,000 to the local Catholic school (Annunciation BVM) for families that couldn't afford to pay the tuition. Most of the families that took advantage of that were children of Mexican parents that are here illegally. He knew that. The Priest of the parrish was open about it and he didn't stop giving or cause a fuss.

All he asked was if you are going to be here and live off the good graces of the American people and its government then show some respect and take time to learn the language.

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08-25-2011, 03:07 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It would be pretty *ing easy for them to simply have a Spanish-language menu that the person could point to.

The whole thing was pure dick on his part. There are not, however, any laws against being an a**hole in this country.
Do they have Japanese, numerous dialects of Chinese, Finnish, Italian, Welsh, German, Polish, Russian, French, Ukrainian menus? If not, you're discriminating against them.

Do they have any vegan options? If not, you're discriminating against them.
Do they have low sodium/no gluten/fat free options? If not, you're discriminating against them.
Do they have free food? If not, you're discriminating against the poor.

I'm taking it to extremes (somewhat), but this is getting really sad. No wonder we're a laughing stock now.

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08-25-2011, 03:41 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It would be pretty *ing easy for them to simply have a Spanish-language menu that the person could point to.

The whole thing was pure dick on his part. There are not, however, any laws against being an a**hole in this country.
You obviously have never owned a small business. That is the dumbest thing you have ever written.

Yeah, just put up a sign for spanish because small business can afford to have signs for spanish, french, etc. Step away from your text books and your stats for while and go out into the real world.

Heaven forbid people assimilate to speak the language of the country they reside in. Again, no one was ever denied service or treated differently. It was a sign that played off of a quote of President Roosevelt which roughly said, " if you want to be part of America we welcome you and will support you. All that we ask is that you learn our language and be part of our society."

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