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The Search for the Elusive Goal Scorer (The Armchair GM thread)

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Old
08-24-2011, 06:29 PM
  #51
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
I dont get why everyone is throwing Wilson around. Most of you are acting like he has gone down the *******. I think he could easily surpass Little this season. Little has been regressing while Wilson really has not even had a solid consistent top 6 opportunity. And he still put up decent numbers.

We wouldnt trade Wilson for Kessel, we probably would of had to of traded him if we wanted Carter. And that didnt happen, what makes people think we would trade him for Bryan Little?

Be patient with the damn kid
Any move for a current top line scorer is going to cost and as of right now Wilson has potential, but that's it.

A dirty little secret ... we couldn't have afforded Kessel for what he got.

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08-24-2011, 06:34 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Any move for a current top line scorer is going to cost and as of right now Wilson has potential, but that's it.

A dirty little secret ... we couldn't have afforded Kessel for what he got.
I wouldnt exactly call Little a top line scorer. Hes another 2nd liner imo which we have enough of.
I would not trade Wilson for him when Wilson could easily turn out to be the better player. Its not like Little is that much better than him currently anyway.

We can do better than Little around the league with out trading any of our few scorers.

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08-24-2011, 06:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Any move for a current top line scorer is going to cost and as of right now Wilson has potential, but that's it.

A dirty little secret ... we couldn't have afforded Kessel for what he got.
truth be told, if we had known the cap(and therefore the midpoint) was going to rise like it did, we probably could have afforded Kessel's contract... but the unknown was whether he would have signed with us for what he signed with TO...

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08-24-2011, 06:43 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
truth be told, if we had known the cap(and therefore the midpoint) was going to rise like it did, we probably could have afforded Kessel's contract... but the unknown was whether he would have signed with us for what he signed with TO...
At the time that deal was made, we couldn't have done it. Even now Kessel would be a tough fit below the cap.

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08-24-2011, 06:48 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
At the time that deal was made, we couldn't have done it. Even now Kessel would be a tough fit below the cap.
yeah, we would have probably had to get kessel to agree to a backloaded deal to make it fit, and/or not resign Sully(which in retrospect would have been a good thing, but was also done before kessel became available)

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08-24-2011, 07:12 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
I wouldnt exactly call Little a top line scorer. Hes another 2nd liner imo which we have enough of.
I would not trade Wilson for him when Wilson could easily turn out to be the better player. Its not like Little is that much better than him currently anyway.

We can do better than Little around the league with out trading any of our few scorers.
30+ goal scorers are the top 25-30 in the league every year. Little has done it once, Wilson barely has enough goals in his 117 games to top the mark for the top 90 goal scorers in any given season. Wilson has potential, but has yet to reach it. If we're going to get a proven scorer of any type, we will send something back in return. If they want a prospect forward with potential, it may be Wilson. If we get into the logic of saying he's got unreached potential so we can't trade him, we don't make any moves.

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08-24-2011, 09:06 PM
  #57
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You have to give to get, and for all of the complaining about Poile doing nothing people can't be very picky with what we give up in order to make a move. If we are going to make a move for a top six forward on a team that doesn't have plenty to spare then we will have to at least give up a roster forward with top six potential. Right now we have Wilson, O'Reilly, Geoffrion, Spaling, and Halischuk (in order of how I think they are valued) who are roster forwards with top six potential. It's either give up one of those guys in a move between us and a Winnipeg/Montreal/Toronto or we give up one of Legwand, Erat, SK, Hornqvist, Fisher. Bergfors is a possibility, but I think his value has gone down since being traded from New Jersey. Winnipeg won't take him. If you want Little, Wilson+ is going to be asked for in return. Depending on what the + is, Winnipeg may have to add. If you absolutely don't want to part with Wilson look to have to part with Blum or Josi. Josi will have to have something added, as will Blum since he has only played a little over a quarter of a season.

The deal that was offered earlier won't fly now that I look at it. Winnipeg is just above the cap floor, so if they lose both Little and Stuart we have to add salary. We're looking at something more like Hornqvist and O'Reilly just to make up for the salary. Replace Stuart with a prospect, and then we could possibly do something like Wilson and Bergfors.

For anyone who liked to talk about how Poile needs to just pull the trigger, it really is pretty tough to make everything fit. The right players for the right team, and then make sure everyone is cap compliant/within their own budgets.

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08-24-2011, 11:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Wilson COULD bring the same offensive upside as Little. Additionally,IMO, considering potential since a prospect is involved:

Little > Wilson (currently)
Ellis>>>Stuart
I would be willing to make this deal as long as the Peg added a draft pick higher than a 4th.

Little is only two years older, has had better stats, and plays both PK and PP. Wilson can't say that. Little>>>>>>Wilson.

Little also makes the teammates around him better. Something Wilson can't say.

I would offer Wilson and O'Reilly and be done with it. I would want Peg to add a mid level forward prospect but I would otherwise do that deal in a heartbeat. Little is a better player, with a better contract. Take him over just about anyone at the moment.

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08-24-2011, 11:27 PM
  #59
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More salary has to go back to Winnipeg. They are near the cap floor, and with Little and Stuart both coming this way they are losing a little over $4m in salary.

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08-24-2011, 11:29 PM
  #60
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You've got to wonder about a player who goes from 30 goals to 13 goals. It was the time that Kovalchuk was traded his production goes down....now it maybe injuries ...Thrasher people can you add to this ...

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Old
08-24-2011, 11:34 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
More salary has to go back to Winnipeg. They are near the cap floor, and with Little and Stuart both coming this way they are losing a little over $4m in salary.
That's why I took Stuart out lol.

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08-24-2011, 11:39 PM
  #62
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I think you forgot to mention that in your post. All I saw was "I would be willing to make this deal if Winnipeg would add a pick higher than a 4th" and "I would offer Wilson and O'Reilly and be done with it."

My bad if I missed something though

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08-25-2011, 12:16 PM
  #63
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Ok so I was typing up a list of players who make below $1m all the way up to $3m when my ****** browser ****ed me over (thanks, Firefox... switching to Chrome now). Needless to say, I don't really feel like doing it again, especially since not many seem to be even using my lists for their intended purpose, so here is the link. Pitch some names, and we'll see where the conversation goes:

LW: http://nhlnumbers.com/players?page=1...ort=&year=2012

RW: http://nhlnumbers.com/players?positi...ort=&year=2012

Centers: http://nhlnumbers.com/players?page=2...ort=&year=2012 (centers tend to be higher paid than wingers, so that link begins on the second page)

The $3m and less guys will obviously start at the bottom, and will continue on into the next page or two. Most of them on the second and third pages are either terrible, are enforcers or pests who can barely play, or don't even have contracts.

I'll do my write up on the more expensive guys later if anyone wants me to. I need to find a notary public to watch me sign an insurance settlement in the meantime.

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Old
08-25-2011, 04:03 PM
  #64
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I think whats being lost on many here is the fact that we are NOT desperate.

We are not a team that was not already a playoff team and needs a huge overhaul(St Louis, Minnesota).

We are not a team team about to lose their fanbase if they dont show some improvement after years of suckage(Columbus)

We are a second round team that is arguably already better than they were last year(replacing old and busted with young and improving), who needs at most one or two more pieces to be right there with perennial powerhouses.

We as a fanbase are desperate to see us make it to the next level, ut that doesnt mean the upgrade has to happen right now.

So Im going to wait and see how things go. there are several possibilities:

1. this team outperforms and excels even without adding another piece early on. that sets up for a trade deadline acquisition that would be in the Forsberg mode.

2. the team struggles massively to the extent that even a big trade wont save the season. that sets us up to be sellers at the deadline.

3. this team is a borderline playoff team and never falls out but never gets much higher than 6th or 7th. that is the scenario for a midseason trade.


Its also possible that a player becomes available between now and the start of the season who is a good fit at a reasonable price.


the only situation which will be really maddening is if we are clearly just a borderline team and poile still does nothing...

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Old
08-25-2011, 04:07 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I think whats being lost on many here is the fact that we are NOT desperate.

We are not a team that was not already a playoff team and needs a huge overhaul(St Louis, Minnesota).

We are not a team team about to lose their fanbase if they dont show some improvement after years of suckage(Columbus)

We are a second round team that is arguably already better than they were last year(replacing old and busted with young and improving), who needs at most one or two more pieces to be right there with perennial powerhouses.

We as a fanbase are desperate to see us make it to the next level, ut that doesnt mean the upgrade has to happen right now.

So Im going to wait and see how things go. there are several possibilities:

1. this team outperforms and excels even without adding another piece early on. that sets up for a trade deadline acquisition that would be in the Forsberg mode.

2. the team struggles massively to the extent that even a big trade wont save the season. that sets us up to be sellers at the deadline.

3. this team is a borderline playoff team and never falls out but never gets much higher than 6th or 7th. that is the scenario for a midseason trade.


Its also possible that a player becomes available between now and the start of the season who is a good fit at a reasonable price.


the only situation which will be really maddening is if we are clearly just a borderline team and poile still does nothing...
I guess my issue is more I am tired of starting the season as a borderline team and this year we have the space to start contending for the division title now. Why not do it? We have the assets.

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Old
08-25-2011, 05:29 PM
  #66
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I guess my issue is more I am tired of starting the season as a borderline team and this year we have the space to start contending for the division title now. Why not do it? We have the assets.
because you cant force another team to trade with you.

just because "we have the assets" doesnt mean that anyone out there will give us what we need for those assets.

and I say that we arent a borderline team. we are a good team that will be competitive from the get-go. Lets play a few games and see what this team actually ends up needing. What do we do, if by chance Bergfors is great, and our other forwards are as good or better than last year, but three D-men go down(instead of three centers like last year)??

then maybe we use those asset a little differently...

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08-25-2011, 08:55 PM
  #67
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Interesting article by the folks at section303.com.

Nashville’s “Top 6 forward” could come from up-state New York…

The facts are simple. The Nashville Predators need a goal scorer. The Buffalo Sabres need to dump payroll. The Preds don’t usually like to give up roster players. The Sabres need to shed $3.6 million to get under the cap ceiling. Nashville could absorb $3.6 million and be just a tad over last year’s payroll. Buffalo has enough talent at the forward position to where some guys are expendable.

Pominville, 28, has scored at least 20 goals in each of his past five seasons. He’s also got four years of 60+ points, including an 80 point campaign. The right wing is slated to make $5.3 million for the next three seasons, which means he wouldn’t be a rental player but a true long-term building block for the organization. Not to mention, at 28 years old, he’s in the prime of his career.

Boyes, on the other hand, is a former 43-goal scorer but has looked more and more like a one-hit wonder ever since. Sure he had the follow-up year of 72 points but 14 and 17 goals in the next two years, respectively, doesn’t warrant his $4 million deal. Of course, if the Predators brought him in in hopes that he could rekindle his scoring touch, 2011-12 is a contract year for the 29-year old center. And we all know what happens in contract years. But is it too risky for the Preds to go on faith? After all, they just bought out another guy who wasn’t worth the $4 million he was due (JP Dumont).

The obvious choice is Pominville. If Nashville could get him into a Predators sweater somehow, they would have an essential piece in place at the forward position; something they don’t have now. Sergei Kostitsyn, Patric Hornqvist and Mike Fisher are great, but none of them are 70 point guys. Pominville is. And has been. Taking on his large contract and sending a solid prospect the other way just might be worth the risk.


http://www.section303.com/nashvilles...new-york-12689

I understand the thought process, but just about anybody in the league could be trading partners with Buffalo. They can also demote a player or two and end up right around the cap. That being said, Pominville is one of my favourite players, and is fantastic on the PP. Maybe not the superstar we think we need, but a very serviceable player who can touch 30 goals and 70 points if used properly. Still.....I'd much rather have Vanek hah.


Last edited by Everlong: 08-25-2011 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Added link to original article...
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Old
08-26-2011, 12:03 AM
  #68
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I seriously doubt Buffalo starts to ship players worth a damn out of upstate NY. It would be nice to pick up Pomminville. Boyes might be a nice pick up, too. I really don't see a team looking to make a push this year doing any favors for the rest of the league unless they feel the return makes them better. We can always hope, though.

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08-26-2011, 02:14 PM
  #69
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Rumblings that Brad Marcand could be traded, I would love to have him on our team. Id take him before Little, Bailey, Pominville, Boyes

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08-26-2011, 02:21 PM
  #70
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Rumblings that Brad Marcand could be traded, I would love to have him on our team. Id take him before Little, Bailey, Pominville, Boyes
A: The Bruins will get him signed.
B: Over Little or Pominville? No way.

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08-26-2011, 02:32 PM
  #71
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A: The Bruins will get him signed.
B: Over Little or Pominville? No way.
A: Most likely yes
B: Marchand has like 6 years on Pominville and is a truck. And I just dont think Little is what everyone makes him out to be, id rather have Marchand.

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08-26-2011, 04:07 PM
  #72
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id take Marchand over anyone but Pominville.

Marchand's game is ****ing awesome, he is going to be a beast.

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08-26-2011, 04:13 PM
  #73
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If you like Brad Marchand, you'll like Gabriel Bourque. Not as physical, but fast, skilled, and feisty. A beast in the playoffs, Bourque will likely earn some ice time in Nashville this season...

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08-26-2011, 04:15 PM
  #74
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If you like Brad Marchand, you'll like Gabriel Bourque. Not as physical, but fast, skilled, and feisty. A beast in the playoffs, Bourque will likely earn some ice time in Nashville this season...
I love the play style of Marchand, Lucic, etc. players that are big and physical and know how to score.... I dont know much about Bourque but i like what I hear. Excited to see so many youngsters this year, hurry up OCTOBER!

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08-26-2011, 04:17 PM
  #75
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id take Marchand over anyone but Pominville.

Marchand's game is ****ing awesome, hes a beast.
Fixed

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