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RIP Joey Vento

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Old
08-26-2011, 09:59 AM
  #151
MsWoof
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Well, speaking as both a vegetarian and small business owner, this guy is odd to say the least. When I go to a restaurant I tell the staff that I'm vegetarian and they give me the options of what I can or can't eat. They don't get in my face or mock me. I generally stay away from places that predominantly serve meat but sometimes situations like that are avoidable and the staff will do what they can to accomodate me.

As a small business owner, if language is a problem there are many ways to get around it, you just have to put in the effort. My family's background is European and some have learnt to speak English while others struggle. To basically slam the door in the face of someone because they don't speak the language is mean and also bad business.

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08-26-2011, 10:10 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
legally it should be accepted, but socially no. His shop should have gone out of business b/c people should boycott racist ideals.

i think thats what he was saying...he wasnt asking for gov't intervention.


edit:
"had to take it down" to stay in business.
(was my take)
So he should accept payment in francs, euro's, drachma's, etc. I don't think so. He and every other business only accept US dollars and under the same principle he only accepts english. what's so hard to understand here.

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08-26-2011, 10:11 AM
  #153
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So he should accept payment in francs, euro's, drachma's, etc. I don't think so. He and every other business only accept US dollars and under the same principle he only accepts english. what's so hard to understand here.
We have a national currency. We do not have a national language.

Nice red herring, though.

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08-26-2011, 10:16 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Well, speaking as both a vegetarian and small business owner, this guy is odd to say the least. When I go to a restaurant I tell the staff that I'm vegetarian and they give me the options of what I can or can't eat. They don't get in my face or mock me. I generally stay away from places that predominantly serve meat but sometimes situations like that are avoidable and the staff will do what they can to accomodate me.

As a small business owner, if language is a problem there are many ways to get around it, you just have to put in the effort. My family's background is European and some have learnt to speak English while others struggle. To basically slam the door in the face of someone because they don't speak the language is mean and also bad business.
Canada is quite instructive on this front because of the linguistic make up of the country, which has a long history to it. Obviously Canada hasn't avoided all problems with language, but much of that is an effort to protect cultural existence as opposed to ignoring that some people speak a different language.

US is beginning to struggle with this as non-English speakers come to be a larger segment of the population. That is leading to much of this populist, ethnocentric, and insular rhetoric, which at the end of the day is both counter productive, and also puts a black eye on America. I'm pretty sure my kids are going to learn Spansh... And I'm pretty sure they are going to have to use it.

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08-26-2011, 11:54 AM
  #155
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08-26-2011, 12:05 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Canada is quite instructive on this front because of the linguistic make up of the country, which has a long history to it. Obviously Canada hasn't avoided all problems with language, but much of that is an effort to protect cultural existence as opposed to ignoring that some people speak a different language.

US is beginning to struggle with this as non-English speakers come to be a larger segment of the population. That is leading to much of this populist, ethnocentric, and insular rhetoric, which at the end of the day is both counter productive, and also puts a black eye on America. I'm pretty sure my kids are going to learn Spansh... And I'm pretty sure they are going to have to use it.
Jester, is there a time when a line should be drawn? Serious question. We're dealing with this now with DWI laws. Part of the process in NJ is we have to read a "standardized statement" form to those we arrest to advise them that they have no right to refuse the breath test, blah blah blah. There is a Spanish version (which we probably destroy when reading it), and now lawyers want us to have other languages available.

When does it stop? If I arrest someone of Asian decent, and I can't even identify what language they are speaking, how do I do my job?

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08-26-2011, 12:05 PM
  #157
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i dont think that "English please" sign was an issue was an issue when the guy was alive was it? the guy dies and suddenly it is. amazing how that works.

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08-26-2011, 12:13 PM
  #158
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i dont think that "English please" sign was an issue was an issue when the guy was alive was it? the guy dies and suddenly it is. amazing how that works.
I remember hearing something about it, so I guess it caused some kind of drama

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08-26-2011, 12:16 PM
  #159
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I thought that it said RIP Joey Votto at first and I got really excited for a second. But alas, I then zoomed in on my phone. RIP Joey Vento, who you may be.

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08-26-2011, 01:05 PM
  #160
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Jester, is there a time when a line should be drawn? Serious question. We're dealing with this now with DWI laws. Part of the process in NJ is we have to read a "standardized statement" form to those we arrest to advise them that they have no right to refuse the breath test, blah blah blah. There is a Spanish version (which we probably destroy when reading it), and now lawyers want us to have other languages available.

When does it stop? If I arrest someone of Asian decent, and I can't even identify what language they are speaking, how do I do my job?
No, it doesn't stop. This is America. The moment it stops, is the moment a fundamental aspect of what makes America what it is dies. I do not want to be like modern Europe, which is a disaster of ethnocentric policies that are at odds with an increasingly globalized community and creating a great deal of societal tensions.

Part of what has always made America great is the ideal that anyone from anywhere can come here (legally) and not be forced to conform or give up their culture -- and language is a fundamental part of culture.

This idea that all these nationalities emigrated here in the past and instantaneously were learning and speaking English is crap. You had Italian, German, Polish, etc. populations that formed closely knit communities where they maintained and preserved their culture. Over time new generations broke down those barriers... Hell, there are still places in this country where German is regularly spoken.

I'm sorry it makes your job harder, but I'm tired of the path of least resistance being a justification for political beliefs. It's hard to catch domestic terrorists, doesn't mean we should live in a police state.

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08-26-2011, 01:06 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
i dont think that "English please" sign was an issue was an issue when the guy was alive was it? the guy dies and suddenly it is. amazing how that works.
It was a huge controversy when he put it up. Like national news coverage.

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08-26-2011, 02:39 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We have a national currency. We do not have a national language.

Nice red herring, though.
So? Do you actually think Spanish should be our national language? 82% of the country speaks some form of English. It's without a doubt the most predominate language used here.

It may not be our national language officially, but it's certainly accepted as such socially.

English is the language spoken in America, get over it.

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08-26-2011, 02:42 PM
  #163
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I know right? He thinks someone named Michele Buchanan is running for president.

Seriously man, don't come into a RIP thread and say **** about a man who doesn't deserve it. He has a policy you don't agree with that has never hurt anyone. Get over it.
Are you upset I told you your problem isn't with foreigners, but Americans?

What .gif will you use to show me how superior your point of view is?

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08-26-2011, 02:49 PM
  #164
ayshplaysh
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, it doesn't stop. This is America. The moment it stops, is the moment a fundamental aspect of what makes America what it is dies. I do not want to be like modern Europe, which is a disaster of ethnocentric policies that are at odds with an increasingly globalized community and creating a great deal of societal tensions.

Part of what has always made America great is the ideal that anyone from anywhere can come here (legally) and not be forced to conform or give up their culture -- and language is a fundamental part of culture.

This idea that all these nationalities emigrated here in the past and instantaneously were learning and speaking English is crap. You had Italian, German, Polish, etc. populations that formed closely knit communities where they maintained and preserved their culture. Over time new generations broke down those barriers... Hell, there are still places in this country where German is regularly spoken.

I'm sorry it makes your job harder, but I'm tired of the path of least resistance being a justification for political beliefs. It's hard to catch domestic terrorists, doesn't mean we should live in a police state.
Anyone can preserve their culture and speak English at the same time.

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08-26-2011, 03:15 PM
  #165
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So? Do you actually think Spanish should be our national language? 82% of the country speaks some form of English. It's without a doubt the most predominate language used here.
No, I don't think we should have any national language.

Quote:
It may not be our national language officially, but it's certainly accepted as such socially.
No, it's really not. That's why you see Spanish signage pretty regularly...

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English is the language spoken in America, get over it.
English is a language spoken in America. You need to get over the fact that some people speak other languages.

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Anyone can preserve their culture and speak English at the same time.
Sure, but saying you can't purchase products from me until you can do it in proper English is being an a**hole. Do people really think ESL folks that are struggling with it don't want to have an easier time communicating with people?

Learning a language is hard... especially the older you get. It's even harder when, in some cases, you're dealing with communities where they only rarely need to operate in English. Learning English, however, is a really important skill to develop economically... of course, in some parts of the country, learning Spanish is becoming increasingly important to expand your business and clientele.

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08-26-2011, 03:31 PM
  #166
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At some point in the future it's probably going to become necessary to recognize both Spanish and English as official languages. Not "national" per se, since that would create a fixed concept of nationality in a country which has always had a flexible and changing national identity.

The Roman Empire provides an interesting example; after the Western Empire collapsed, the Eastern, predominantly Greek-speaking half survived for another millenium. However, for a while Latin remained the official language of government and law, despite the fact that nobody native to that area grew up speaking Latin. Eventually, Greek was recognized as the official language of government.

The cases aren't identical here, but it's not impossible that the spread of Spanish will make it necessary for the government to broaden its horizons to make itself understood and accessible to all its citizens.

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08-26-2011, 03:52 PM
  #167
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Are you upset I told you your problem isn't with foreigners, but Americans?

What .gif will you use to show me how superior your point of view is?
What? I don't even know what you were trying to get at by saying this:

Quote:
The same people who pay attention to the immigration problem as they have are the same ones not paying attention to the other problems you're talking about. Your issue shouldn't be with the foreigners.
You said this after I stated we should be worrying about citizens of our country, not foreigners.

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08-26-2011, 04:24 PM
  #168
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RIP, but ive always liked Pat's better.....

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08-26-2011, 05:05 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, I don't think we should have any national language.



No, it's really not. That's why you see Spanish signage pretty regularly...



English is a language spoken in America. You need to get over the fact that some people speak other languages.



Sure, but saying you can't purchase products from me until you can do it in proper English is being an a**hole. Do people really think ESL folks that are struggling with it don't want to have an easier time communicating with people?

Learning a language is hard... especially the older you get. It's even harder when, in some cases, you're dealing with communities where they only rarely need to operate in English. Learning English, however, is a really important skill to develop economically... of course, in some parts of the country, learning Spanish is becoming increasingly important to expand your business and clientele.
You're without a doubt the most hard-headed liberal I've ever seen!

I still don't agree with you, but it's clear there's no convincing you. So I concede, you believe that Joey Vento was an a**, so be it.

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08-26-2011, 05:47 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by ayshplaysh View Post
You're without a doubt the most hard-headed liberal I've ever seen!

I still don't agree with you, but it's clear there's no convincing you. So I concede, you believe that Joey Vento was an a**, so be it.
Well... he kinda was.

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08-26-2011, 05:48 PM
  #171
Terence Peterman
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What? I don't even know what you were trying to get at by saying this:


You said this after I stated we should be worrying about citizens of our country, not foreigners.
The foreigners aren't really the ones creating the problems for the ones we're not worrying about. Being angry at and scolding them for coming to America by means they've deemed necessary is deflecting the issue. I understand wanting to care about our own legal citizens first, but there's little to no direct relationship between attention being paid to non-citizens over citizens.

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08-26-2011, 05:51 PM
  #172
Jester
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You're without a doubt the most hard-headed liberal I've ever seen!

I still don't agree with you, but it's clear there's no convincing you. So I concede, you believe that Joey Vento was an a**, so be it.
Actually, that's a deeply classically conservative position. There never has been a national language in the US, nor should there be a national language in the US. There's nothing inherently "liberal" about that. It is a non-reactionary position, that isn't based on pissing myself out of some identity crisis caused by the fear of living in a multicultural country.

Of course, US has so skewed the meaning of "liberal" and "conservative" -- we don't really have a conservative party anymore -- that the term has lost all substantive meaning. "Conservatives" in the US hold deeply liberal views on a host of issues, and it's pushed the "liberals" in to the US into more conservative positions.

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08-26-2011, 07:39 PM
  #173
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Actually, that's a deeply classically conservative position. There never has been a national language in the US, nor should there be a national language in the US. There's nothing inherently "liberal" about that. It is a non-reactionary position, that isn't based on pissing myself out of some identity crisis caused by the fear of living in a multicultural country.

Of course, US has so skewed the meaning of "liberal" and "conservative" -- we don't really have a conservative party anymore -- that the term has lost all substantive meaning. "Conservatives" in the US hold deeply liberal views on a host of issues, and it's pushed the "liberals" in to the US into more conservative positions.
Hm, you are correct sir, my mistake.

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08-27-2011, 12:30 AM
  #174
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you can't deny the dude was a racist no matter how you decide to spin his view.

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08-27-2011, 01:54 AM
  #175
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It was a huge controversy when he put it up. Like national news coverage.
well either my memory sucks, or I dont remember it making in the news up here. Might be a little of both. Might have been mentioned one day in the local paper and it got lost in the other stuff around here.

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