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Old
08-24-2011, 02:47 PM
  #51
anleva
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Interesting article on the subject. Tebow is 4th string now?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...erbacks_082311

-AB
Yep. The whisper campaign to disparage Tebow from what appears to be the Broncos FO is disgusting. Transparency from behind a curtain I guess. I have no problem if they believe he is behind other QBs. Play who you think deserves it. But not sure I've ever seen a 2nd year player get trashed so publicly and methodically before. I'd love to know who deep throat is.

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08-24-2011, 03:54 PM
  #52
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Well if not Tebow, bring on the Adam Weber era. I've had all the Orton I can stand and not sure I can cheer for a domer. Looks like he has the full backing of Brandon Lloyd too. He threw the ball before the receiver made the cut!!111!!11! Woah...Merry Christmas!

Also masterful PR job by the Broncos to completely lower expectations on Tebow and turn the tide of public opinion against him. Haven't seen anything like it since they portrayed Xanders as a bumbling, spineless yes man victimized by the evil Josh McDaniels with no role whatsoever in personnel decisions.
you listened to 102.3 this morning eh?

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08-24-2011, 05:20 PM
  #53
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you listened to 102.3 this morning eh?
Actually I can't listen to the station. The Ticket's reception doesn't go as far north as Fort Collins believe it or not. LOL. Nice job guys!

Why what did they say on 102.3?


Last edited by anleva: 08-24-2011 at 05:26 PM.
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08-24-2011, 06:29 PM
  #54
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Actually I can't listen to the station. The Ticket's reception doesn't go as far north as Fort Collins believe it or not. LOL. Nice job guys!

Why what did they say on 102.3?
Merry Christmas to the ball dropping into the receivers hands.

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08-24-2011, 06:55 PM
  #55
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Merry Christmas to the ball dropping into the receivers hands.
Ah...that was a quote from Brandon Lloyd on what a nice ball Adam Weber throws.

“He threw that ball before the receiver made his cut, and it came down in the dude’s hands like, ‘Merry Christmas,’ ” Pro Bowl wideout Brandon Lloyd(notes) recalled Monday. “He’s thrown four or five passes like that in camp where it’s been like … whoa. Weber’s got personality, and he’s got some swag about him, too.”

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08-24-2011, 09:42 PM
  #56
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Yep. The whisper campaign to disparage Tebow from what appears to be the Broncos FO is disgusting. Transparency from behind a curtain I guess.

<snip - below...>

But not sure I've ever seen a 2nd year player get trashed so publicly and methodically before. I'd love to know who deep throat is.
Who in the organization is trashing him? I've not seen a single person in the organization or on the team say any such thing.

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I have no problem if they believe he is behind other QBs. Play who you think deserves it.
Are you sure you'll have no problem with this? Because isn't this precisely what the organization is doing?

-AB

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08-24-2011, 09:57 PM
  #57
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Who in the organization is trashing him? I've not seen a single person in the organization or on the team say any such thing.-AB
Who is driving the campaign to diminish Tebow is the 100K question. That's why its called a whisper campaign. Sure seems to be lots of anoymous quotes from people in the Broncos organization in the anti-Tebow talk lately. Did you read the article you linked? Quotes from "highly knowledgeable members in the organization." What they can't attach their name to their negative quote? Then keep your mouth shut.

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Are you sure you'll have no problem with this? Because isn't this precisely what the organization is doing?-AB
Yes I absolutely am. As I said, I'm fine with them choosing who they feel is the best fit based on whatever decision criteria they choose, even if I don't personally like the choice. What I am not fine with is the smear campaign that smells like it is coming out of Dove Valley.

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08-24-2011, 10:14 PM
  #58
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Who is driving the campaign to diminish Tebow is the 100K question. That's why its called a whisper campaign. Sure seems to be lots of anoymous quotes from people in the Broncos organization in the anti-Tebow talk lately. Did you read the article you linked? Quotes from "highly knowledgeable members in the organization."

Yes I absolutely am. As I said, I'm fine with them choosing who they feel is the best fit based on whatever decision criteria they choose, even if I don't personally like the choice. What I am not fine with is the smear campaign that smells like it is coming out of Dove Valley.
Well, if other guys are playing better in camp, then they're playing better in camp. I've seen a number of very negative comments about Tebow - his delivery, his accuracy, his inability to play under center, etc. But all of those came from ESPN (or other network) talking heads - never from the Broncos' management or players.

I guess I can see that the accuracy of your theory is plausible, but I don't see any evidence of it anywhere. And what purpose would it serve for the team to do that?

-AB

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08-24-2011, 10:35 PM
  #59
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Well, if other guys are playing better in camp, then they're playing better in camp. I've seen a number of very negative comments about Tebow - his delivery, his accuracy, his inability to play under center, etc. But all of those came from ESPN (or other network) talking heads - never from the Broncos' management or players.

I guess I can see that the accuracy of your theory is plausible, but I don't see any evidence of it anywhere. And what purpose would it serve for the team to do that?

-AB
Not just my theory, it's being discussed all over the Broncos forums, blogs and sports radio. I can't claim to have come up with it. And there have been quotes out there from named and unamed sources within the Broncos organization, about Tebows (lack of) abilities.

If you follow the string of articles coming out from Merrill Hoge, John Clayton, Paige, Klis, this guy from Yahoo, etc. it seems clear to me that Broncos are trying to get a message out to significantly lower the expectations on Tebow. They talk to these reporters on and off the record. They are trying to lower public opinion on Tebow.

Why? I don't know for sure. They may feel the Tebow hype is out of control and damaging to the team. Maybe to get people to move to a wait and see mode and let Tebow develop without as much fan pressure for him to start. Maybe because they have plans to get rid of him and want to minimize the outcry. Who knows.

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08-25-2011, 12:18 AM
  #60
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The whole Tebow thing has gotten rediclious. Now Boomer Esiason is piling on. It almost seems as if the cool thing to do now is bash Tebow.

I'm leary of the "unnamed sources" thing too. Simply because it's impossible for the Broncos to deny even if it is false. And coming out afterwards doesn't make them look any better. For all the tweeting he's done in the past Elway should have been out ahead of all this crap.

Klis has an article out tonight that is pretty supportive of Tebow FWIW.

I'm not a Tebow guy at all. But I'd still rather see him get a shot then to deal with Kyle "All Star when it Doesn't Matter" Orton all year.

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08-25-2011, 01:34 AM
  #61
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Let's see Ward get a half and Tebow get one and then go from there.

I believe Tebow should get a chance, but he should get it now. I don't think it's really fair to Orton or even more importantly Brady Quinn to have Tebow on the roster if he's really getting passed up. 3 losses in and people are going to be screaming for Tebow and not Quinn. If I was Fox or Elway I wouldn't want to deal with that BS all year long. I understand developing Tebow but it's not that simple - people are going to want Tebow in there before Quinn which is not fair to the guy at all.

and FWIW I hate all 3 QB's on this roster.....but Tebow's just such a distraction for what you get in his talent. He's the anti-Josh McDaniels. Everyone wants him on the field and involved despite whoever the other 2 QB's are.

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08-25-2011, 05:53 AM
  #62
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Richard Quinn on waivers before going to IR. He deserves a spot in the Pantheon of Broncos draft busts. Of course McDaniels added a new wing to that building.

I will couch my disdain for Orton with this. The team hasn't been a meritocracy for the past two years and it behooves Elway and Fox to restore some of that credibility. At least to give Orton a chance to fall on his face.

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08-25-2011, 04:40 PM
  #63
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It would be hilarious if Timmy was cut.

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08-25-2011, 05:33 PM
  #64
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It would be hilarious if Timmy was cut.

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08-25-2011, 05:46 PM
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It would be. His fanboys would go crazy.

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08-26-2011, 03:09 PM
  #66
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Like I said...good but too injury prone...

Report: Ryan Harris has herniated disc, will undergo surgery

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08-26-2011, 03:18 PM
  #67
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Not just my theory, it's being discussed all over the Broncos forums, blogs and sports radio. I can't claim to have come up with it. And there have been quotes out there from named and unamed sources within the Broncos organization, about Tebows (lack of) abilities.

If you follow the string of articles coming out from Merrill Hoge, John Clayton, Paige, Klis, this guy from Yahoo, etc. it seems clear to me that Broncos are trying to get a message out to significantly lower the expectations on Tebow. They talk to these reporters on and off the record. They are trying to lower public opinion on Tebow.

Why? I don't know for sure. They may feel the Tebow hype is out of control and damaging to the team. Maybe to get people to move to a wait and see mode and let Tebow develop without as much fan pressure for him to start. Maybe because they have plans to get rid of him and want to minimize the outcry. Who knows.
An article addressing the "Christian" thing.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/6...-critics-wrong

-AB

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08-26-2011, 08:48 PM
  #68
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An article addressing the "Christian" thing.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/6...-critics-wrong

-AB
Sorry, when I saw the article was from Rick Reilly I stopped reading. What was your point exactly?

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08-27-2011, 02:37 AM
  #69
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Like I said...good but too injury prone...

Report: Ryan Harris has herniated disc, will undergo surgery
Thats a huge injury for the Eagles considering he is blocking Vick's blindside.

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08-27-2011, 08:45 AM
  #70
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Sorry, when I saw the article was from Rick Reilly I stopped reading. What was your point exactly?
Ooooooh, do I sense some hostility? I simply posted a link. Say what you will about the Tebow fan club, but they certainly are passionate about their boy.

I don't really have a point behind that particular post, except that perhaps I don't believe the rhetoric that the Broncos have ulterior motives, or that people have ulterior motives due to Tebow's Christianity, etc. My belief is that he's simply not all that good right now - or not as good as other guys on the team at the same position right now.

And that's really all there is to this "story". I think the answer to all of this speculation is I suspect the Broncos brass is trying to avoid another lottery season at all costs, so as to not risk the decades-long sell-out-the-stadium fan base they've enjoyed for so long. Nothing more, nothing less. They simply need to look across I-25 to see what can happen to a team's loyal fanbase attendance figures once they start losing.

Should the Broncos play Tebow anyway? Well, Doc's point is interesting, in that the team is rebuilding, so why not play the kid for a season and see if he's really worth anything or not. I'm looking forward to a season without any of the polarizing fanfare though - so I can simply pull for my team to win.

-AB

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08-27-2011, 10:32 AM
  #71
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Ooooooh, do I sense some hostility? I simply posted a link. Say what you will about the Tebow fan club, but they certainly are passionate about their boy.

I don't really have a point behind that particular post, except that perhaps I don't believe the rhetoric that the Broncos have ulterior motives, or that people have ulterior motives due to Tebow's Christianity, etc. My belief is that he's simply not all that good right now - or not as good as other guys on the team at the same position right now.

And that's really all there is to this "story". I think the answer to all of this speculation is I suspect the Broncos brass is trying to avoid another lottery season at all costs, so as to not risk the decades-long sell-out-the-stadium fan base they've enjoyed for so long. Nothing more, nothing less. They simply need to look across I-25 to see what can happen to a team's loyal fanbase attendance figures once they start losing.

Should the Broncos play Tebow anyway? Well, Doc's point is interesting, in that the team is rebuilding, so why not play the kid for a season and see if he's really worth anything or not. I'm looking forward to a season without any of the polarizing fanfare though - so I can simply pull for my team to win.

-AB
No, just wasn't sure what point you might be trying to make or past point you might be trying to support by quoting me and linking the Reilly "don't accuse me of being anti-Christian" article. A paragraph of that tripe and I stopped reading.

Again, my point of view has always been this. Fox and team can choose whoever they want to play QB. It's their job on the line. I didn't respect all the commentary trashing the kid in the process. Went overboard. I believe the Broncos used the media along the way to send a message. Organizations do that all the time. You believe they were innocent in the process and it was completely the work of media members themselves. We disagree on that point. But at the end of the day the kid was trashed more than any 2nd year player I've seen regardless of reason and I found that tiresome, disgusting and there was far too much emotion in it all for my liking.

If you want to label me as a fan club member (hasn't that schtick run its course yet?) I probably best belong right now in the anybody but Orton fan club. As a Bears and Broncos fan I've probably seen most every game he has played. His ceiling, we've see it, is as a classic game manager QB. Build a strong defense and running game (which the Broncos appear to be doing) and he can be effective. He can not-lose you games. I'd like to see more exciting QB play, but a win is better than a loss. I don't know what the ceiling is on Quinn or Tebow yet but would like to get a chance to see it.

Orton's contract is up this year and I really don't think the Broncos will or should pay him a big bucks long term contract moving forward. So a full year of Orton is a year in neutral without figuring out what else you may or may not have behind him.

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08-27-2011, 11:46 AM
  #72
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No, just wasn't sure what point you might be trying to make or past point you might be trying to support by quoting me and linking the Reilly "don't accuse me of being anti-Christian" article. A paragraph of that tripe and I stopped reading.


Damn. I see. And I apologize. I can see how one could infer that I was linking you to the "Christian" point, when I was simply quoting a relevant post in an ongoing discussion. I had no intention on earth to create such a reference to you, but I now see that's exactly what I did. Again, sorry about that. Feel free to smack me in the side of the head with a frying pan.

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Again, my point of view has always been this. Fox and team can choose whoever they want to play QB. It's their job on the line. I didn't respect all the commentary trashing the kid in the process. Went overboard. I believe the Broncos used the media along the way to send a message. Organizations do that all the time. You believe they were innocent in the process and it was completely the work of media members themselves. We disagree on that point. But at the end of the day the kid was trashed more than any 2nd year player I've seen regardless of reason and I found that tiresome, disgusting and there was far too much emotion in it all for my liking.
Again, I can see how this is plausible, but I can't find a shred of real evidence. Mostly, I'm trying to figure out why the team would want to do such a thing. Trashing Tebow kills any possible return they'd get in a trade; trashing Tebow kills what was really the only excitement in the overall fanbase during last season; trashing Tebow hurts the development of a young QB. Does anyone have a rational explanation as to why the team would want Tebow trashed?

I can think of only one explanation: it's bad enough inside NFL locker rooms, that rookies make big money while never having proven themselves on the field. Perhaps Tebow's off field success - endorsements, authoring a book, multiple interviews every day, just about the best selling jersey anywhere - when he's proven nothing on a NFL field (particularly when other players on the team who have proven themselves are not having anywhere close to this off-field success) has the potential of fracturing the Broncos' locker room. And perhaps management is trying to head that off. That's also plausible to me. But other than that, what could the motivation possibly be?

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Build a strong defense and running game (which the Broncos appear to be doing) and he can be effective. He can not-lose you games. I'd like to see more exciting QB play, but a win is better than a loss. I don't know what the ceiling is on Quinn or Tebow yet but would like to get a chance to see it.
Yes, Doc made a very similar point, and it's an interesting one. I've made the case many times when discussing the Avs, that since the team doesn't have any real chance at competing, that they should play the young guys, so they can really see what they've got in those assets. I have no problem with the Broncos doing it either - aside from the fact that there will be 3x more articles every day about the QB rather than the team. Which is only an irritant.

-AB

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08-27-2011, 12:38 PM
  #73
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Damn. I see. And I apologize. I can see how one could infer that I was linking you to the "Christian" point, when I was simply quoting a relevant post in an ongoing discussion. I had no intention on earth to create such a reference to you, but I now see that's exactly what I did. Again, sorry about that. Feel free to smack me in the side of the head with a frying pan.

-AB
Thanks, no worries. 'ppreciate that'

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Again, I can see how this is plausible, but I can't find a shred of real evidence. Mostly, I'm trying to figure out why the team would want to do such a thing. Trashing Tebow kills any possible return they'd get in a trade; trashing Tebow kills what was really the only excitement in the overall fanbase during last season; trashing Tebow hurts the development of a young QB. Does anyone have a rational explanation as to why the team would want Tebow trashed?

I can think of only one explanation: it's bad enough inside NFL locker rooms, that rookies make big money while never having proven themselves on the field. Perhaps Tebow's off field success - endorsements, authoring a book, multiple interviews every day, just about the best selling jersey anywhere - when he's proven nothing on a NFL field (particularly when other players on the team who have proven themselves are not having anywhere close to this off-field success) has the potential of fracturing the Broncos' locker room. And perhaps management is trying to head that off. That's also plausible to me. But other than that, what could the motivation possibly be?
I think the Broncos initially just tried to get a message out about their evaluation of Tebows abilities and where he fits in their plans and the thing took on a life of its own when reporters saw blood in the water. EFX probably felt they needed to dial down and temper fan enthusiasm (which was getting over the top) and lower the expectations for Tebow when they concluded he was not ready to be the starting QB. It was becoming a distraction. But got too loose with information on how he was still flawed (mechanics, decision making, couldn't even hold the ball properly, lacked footwork taking a snap from center) 2nd, then 3rd and maybe even 4th string, so that fans could accept and even support Orton as the starter with minimal outcry and possibly give Tebow himself breathing room to develop. There were even articles about trading or cutting him (prior to the large bonus becoming due) and this would also help them make that move with less backlash if they choose to. But things got too critical which is probably more on some of the gurus who took it and ran with it than the Broncos FO.

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Yes, Doc made a very similar point, and it's an interesting one. I've made the case many times when discussing the Avs, that since the team doesn't have any real chance at competing, that they should play the young guys, so they can really see what they've got in those assets. I have no problem with the Broncos doing it either - aside from the fact that there will be 3x more articles every day about the QB rather than the team. Which is only an irritant.

-AB
Good point, similar to the Avs. See what they have and go from there. I do agree, the articles and coverage is getting annoying. Just looking forward to watching some football

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08-27-2011, 12:43 PM
  #74
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Good point, similar to the Avs. See what they have and go from there. I do agree, the articles and coverage is getting annoying. Just looking forward to watching some football
Agreed. I had such a distaste for McD's arrogance, that I found myself....well, not really wanting the Broncos to lose per se, but not really caring if they lost. It'll be good to simply be able to pull for them now.

-AB

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08-27-2011, 03:10 PM
  #75
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He can not-lose you games.
Oy! Aside from damning with faint praise, this just isn't true. Orton might not break your back, but he'll bleed you to death with 3-n-outs, red zone failures and ball stopping.

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