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The Search for the Elusive Goal Scorer (The Armchair GM thread)

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Old
08-27-2011, 07:29 AM
  #101
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
I agree to a point I think still our best best is to stay with the big 3 and trade for a Parise and a Ryan that is the only way I would give up a Wilson or a Ellis. If we put a package worthy of a trade. Of course we are going to have to overpay to get either. I'm afraid if we don't and still try to dink around with second tier players then we'll watch Suter and Weber waving goodbye when the time comes
You know when teams offer us a package of prospects and picks for Weber or Suter and we laugh and mock them? Why would a team take a package of potential for proven entities like Parise and Ryan? If we do offer a package, we are giving up at least 2 if not 3 top end prospects and a high draft pick, probably a first. Would you be willing to part with Wilson, Josi, Beck and a 1st to land a guy like Parise? I'd be good with it if we don't include Beck in the deal but that isn't enough to land a guy like Parise. I'd rather give up one player, even if it's a superstar like Suter or Weber to land a Parise or Ryan. I think we don't end up gutting our roster and farm and have the pieces to fill in for the departed. That's just me. I don't think any scenario is going to happen where we land a top end forward.

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08-27-2011, 11:44 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
You know when teams offer us a package of prospects and picks for Weber or Suter and we laugh and mock them? Why would a team take a package of potential for proven entities like Parise and Ryan? If we do offer a package, we are giving up at least 2 if not 3 top end prospects and a high draft pick, probably a first. Would you be willing to part with Wilson, Josi, Beck and a 1st to land a guy like Parise? I'd be good with it if we don't include Beck in the deal but that isn't enough to land a guy like Parise. I'd rather give up one player, even if it's a superstar like Suter or Weber to land a Parise or Ryan. I think we don't end up gutting our roster and farm and have the pieces to fill in for the departed. That's just me. I don't think any scenario is going to happen where we land a top end forward.
buh bye Suter, Weber & Rinne, and at that point Poile has got to go UNLESS the Cap goes down

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08-27-2011, 02:18 PM
  #103
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Can we please, PLEASE, not turn this thread into another "Poile has got to go if X doesn't happen!" thread? Seriously. We have that thread. I was sort of wanting this one to be solely for discussion of trade possibilities, not another breeding ground for Poile arguments.

On topic. Rosey, I would love to land Parise or Ryan, but it would have to be the perfect storm. It likely would cost us one of the big three you want to keep. I just don't see it happening. Parise MIGHT be had for a roster forward, a prospect or two, and a pick or two, but I doubt it. If he makes it clear to Lou that he will not be staying with NJD then I could see him sold at the deadline for as little as Wilson and a 1st. That's only if NJ is out of the play offs, and it's still just a guess. Our options really are narrowed down to hoping for a deal like that to fall into our laps, but what are the chances of that happening? I think we all need to accept that it's either an aging star at the deadline, or it's another 50pt player sometime between training camp and the deadline.

I think if the moves Columbus made don't strengthen the team enough to be a play off contender we should make a move for Umberger. If that isn't an option then perhaps Kulemin, but with Toronto it gets a little trickier as we would likely have to part with a roster forward. After that we could maybe look at Ruutu if Carolina is selling. Jokinen might be an option earlier in the season if Calgary struggles out of the gate, and he might be had for a lot cheaper than anyone named so far. PA Parenteau could be a good fit, and might not cost much. NYI might even be ok with the centerpiece being a bottom six player with some skill and potential, which we have [Geoffrion, Halischuk, Spaling (though I'd rather keep Spaling)]. Best case is the Islanders are still looking at another year of rebuild, and want picks back. Milan Hedjuk could be available unless Colorado somehow actually plays well this year. I think these are all realistic, if not highly likely, players to target. What do you guys think?

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08-27-2011, 03:07 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
On topic. Rosey, I would love to land Parise or Ryan, but it would have to be the perfect storm. It likely would cost us one of the big three you want to keep. I just don't see it happening. Parise MIGHT be had for a roster forward, a prospect or two, and a pick or two, but I doubt it. If he makes it clear to Lou that he will not be staying with NJD then I could see him sold at the deadline for as little as Wilson and a 1st. That's only if NJ is out of the play offs, and it's still just a guess. Our options really are narrowed down to hoping for a deal like that to fall into our laps, but what are the chances of that happening? I think we all need to accept that it's either an aging star at the deadline, or it's another 50pt player sometime between training camp and the deadline.

I think if the moves Columbus made don't strengthen the team enough to be a play off contender we should make a move for Umberger. If that isn't an option then perhaps Kulemin, but with Toronto it gets a little trickier as we would likely have to part with a roster forward. After that we could maybe look at Ruutu if Carolina is selling. Jokinen might be an option earlier in the season if Calgary struggles out of the gate, and he might be had for a lot cheaper than anyone named so far. PA Parenteau could be a good fit, and might not cost much. NYI might even be ok with the centerpiece being a bottom six player with some skill and potential, which we have [Geoffrion, Halischuk, Spaling (though I'd rather keep Spaling)]. Best case is the Islanders are still looking at another year of rebuild, and want picks back. Milan Hedjuk could be available unless Colorado somehow actually plays well this year. I think these are all realistic, if not highly likely, players to target. What do you guys think?
I think Kulemin and Hedjuk are out. They're valued more than they're worth by the team and by the fans to be considered trade bait. PA Parenteau is an interesting name but I don't see high end scoring potential. Grabner is a name I'd be interested in from the Island. He's jumped around a little bit, but he really broke out last season and has a dynamic ability to score goals.

Jokinen I always though would be a good fit with the team philosophy. Okay, defense isn't his forte, but he's a slick play maker and dangerous goal scorer when he's hot. The pp is his friend aswell.

With the rise of Maclean in PHX, I wonder if Korpikoski would be available. Not a big name out there, but is the definition of a late bloomer, he's going to be a good one. 5g6a in 71 games in 09-10, but then 19g21a in 79 games in 10-11 while maintaining a +17.

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Old
08-27-2011, 04:24 PM
  #105
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I am horrendous at value, so forgive me if this is just bad. The point is Tampa needs a goalie, and we need an elite forward, which they have 3 of.

To NSH

Vinny Lecavalier
Teddy Purcell

Total Cap- ~9.5 mil

To TBL

Pekka Rinne
Martin Erat

Total Cap ~7.5 mil

After this trade, we could need to sign/trade for a 1B goalie for Lindback. It wouldn't have to be someone particularly good, just an experienced guy with some ability i.e. Leclaire or Turco.

We're still under 50M for the year, so adding 2 milion + 1 for the goalie should put us in the neighborhood of last year's total. Vinny may be slightly over-paid, but given time on our first line, he could really put some points up, not to mention Fisher and Legwand being on our 2nd and 3rd lines respectively, meaning our 3 top lines would all be legitimate scoring threats.

Losing Rinne will be a step back, but in Mitch we trust. He will turn Lindy into a stud, Rinne will IMO regress this coming season (only 1 goalie in the 2000s has had back to back 93% SV% years), and our very backup will be there for insurance.

Like I said, I'm awful with value, but it seems like a solid deal to me. If anything, we may need to add, and with our new surplus of centers, someone like Cally O might be available.


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Old
08-27-2011, 04:25 PM
  #106
Roman Yoshi
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I don't believe we need top 3 talent. Another 50-60 point guy is all we need. Top 3 talent costs too much. We have a lot of 3rd line prospects that could be 2nd liners but our window of opportunity does not allow us to wait for them. Ideally, I would move a package of prospects not named Josi or Ekholm for a bryan little or a Paul Statsny or a Jussi Jokinen. I would be willing to move both Ellis and Wilson if the right deal could be made. Statsny may cost more than the other two, but it is doable. I would not move any of the big three to make this move happen. If we can land top 3 talent without giving up Josi or Ekholm, but without removing one of our current top players or the big three, I would do it, but that scenario is unlikely to happen.

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08-27-2011, 04:29 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
I am horrendous at value, so forgive me if this is just bad. The point is Tampa needs a goalie, and we need an elite scorer, which they have 3 of.

To NSH

Vinny Lecavalier
Teddy Purcell

Total Cap- ~9.5 mil

To TBL

Pekka Rinne
Martin Erat

Total Cap ~7.5 mil

After this trade, we could need to sign/trade for a 1B goalie for Lindback. It wouldn't have to be someone particularly good, just an experienced guy with some ability i.e. Leclaire or Turco.

We're still under 50M for the year, so adding 2 milion + 1 for the goalie should put us in the neighborhood of last year's total. Vinny may be slightly over-paid, but given time on our first line, he could really put some points up, not to mention Fisher and Legwand being on our 2nd and 3rd lines respectively, meaning our 3 top lines would all be legitimate scoring threats.

Losing Rinne will be a step back, but in Mitch we trust. He will turn Lindy into a stud, Rinne will IMO regress this coming season (only 1 goalie in the 2000s has had back to back 93% SV% years, and our very backup will be there for insurance.

Like I said, I'm awful with value, but it seems like a solid deal to me. If anything, we may need to add, and with our new surplus of centers, someone like Cally O might be available.
Nashville is giving up the best two players in the deal.

Rinne > Vinny
erat > pur

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08-27-2011, 04:30 PM
  #108
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Nashville is giving up the best two players in the deal.

Rinne > Vinny
erat > pur
Not sure if I agree, but alright. What does Tampa need to add?

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Old
08-27-2011, 04:36 PM
  #109
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Id rather not go for Lecavlier. Hes getting older, not saying he is not effective but I dont seem him with much more top scoring years. I dont wanna give up our Franchise goalie unless its a top player preferably 28 or younger.

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08-27-2011, 05:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
I don't believe we need top 3 talent. Another 50-60 point guy is all we need. Top 3 talent costs too much. We have a lot of 3rd line prospects that could be 2nd liners but our window of opportunity does not allow us to wait for them. Ideally, I would move a package of prospects not named Josi or Ekholm for a bryan little or a Paul Statsny or a Jussi Jokinen. I would be willing to move both Ellis and Wilson if the right deal could be made. Statsny may cost more than the other two, but it is doable. I would not move any of the big three to make this move happen. If we can land top 3 talent without giving up Josi or Ekholm, but without removing one of our current top players or the big three, I would do it, but that scenario is unlikely to happen.
So you don't think we need a top 3 talent? We don't have the money?

So many people on here have been clamoring for a move, to add offense, to use the money we dumped when we traded Lombardi but we don't need a top 3 talent? That's exactly what we need. We don't need another 50 point guy that is overpaid. We need a stud, plain and simple. I am so tired of this discussion because the stories change with so many posters. If people think we were one piece away from being serious contenders, that wasn't going to happen with another 50 point guy. The guy we need is a go to guy and that is top 3 talent. We need a game changer up front, not a good player but an elite player. The use of our prospects to land that talent won't happen either. The only way we land a premier player is to trade one of the big three. We have enough depth to survive this kind of move and would have the salary cap space to add this player.

The other aspect of this is if we can add that top piece plus having Radulov possibly come back next year, then we are even bigger contenders than we'd already be.

You have to give to get. Huge packages of unproven talent will not land an elite player.

I think the thing we need to know is that the owners are willing to open their wallets.

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08-27-2011, 05:18 PM
  #111
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Above is a list of the top power play forwards for last year.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Above is the list sorted by goals during the regular season.

When I look at both lists only a couple of names that might be available Iginla, Marleau, Vanek. And even then at what price. Any thoughts after looking at the lists.

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08-27-2011, 05:22 PM
  #112
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Vanek would be my choice of preference from what you named.

Wilson+Ellis+?

Idk what to add, surely they wouldnt take it for Wilson and Ellis. Too important

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08-27-2011, 06:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So you don't think we need a top 3 talent? We don't have the money?

So many people on here have been clamoring for a move, to add offense, to use the money we dumped when we traded Lombardi but we don't need a top 3 talent? That's exactly what we need. We don't need another 50 point guy that is overpaid. We need a stud, plain and simple. I am so tired of this discussion because the stories change with so many posters. If people think we were one piece away from being serious contenders, that wasn't going to happen with another 50 point guy. The guy we need is a go to guy and that is top 3 talent. We need a game changer up front, not a good player but an elite player. The use of our prospects to land that talent won't happen either. The only way we land a premier player is to trade one of the big three. We have enough depth to survive this kind of move and would have the salary cap space to add this player.

The other aspect of this is if we can add that top piece plus having Radulov possibly come back next year, then we are even bigger contenders than we'd already be.

You have to give to get. Huge packages of unproven talent will not land an elite player.

I think the thing we need to know is that the owners are willing to open their wallets.
I think we all agree that we need an elite forward in order to really take that next step, but after an entire summer of picking apart what it would take to even make that look like a vague possibility it makes sense that we will probably add a 50+ pt guy before we add a 70+ pt guy. I don't think it's changing one's story to accept that these elite-type guys just aren't moved very often. When those trades do happen there is typically an underlying issue. Heatley didn't seem to be fitting in with the Sharks, so he was traded for Havlat. Both of those guys were 60pt players last seasons. Heatley has had two 100+ pt seasons, and Havlat has never broken 80 pts plus he has injury concerns so that points to there being an underlying issue with Heatley. In their other deal, SJ sent Setoguchi to Minnesota for Burns. Setoguchi is, for now, one or two tiers down from the top tier of forwards in the league. Burns, while a good defenseman, is a tier down from the Webers and Charas in the league. These big deals where star players are swapped just aren't very likely to happen, so it seems to me that the discussion is at its best when it's directed towards the realistic more than the unlikely. Even if the unlikely scenario is the one that puts the team over the top. A lot of teams are one elite player away from being in serious contention. Most, if not all, of those teams will not get that elite player through a one-for-one trade involving their own elite player. Most, if not all, likely won't even get that player in any type of trade.

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08-27-2011, 06:26 PM
  #114
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I don't believe we need top 3 talent. Another 50-60 point guy is all we need. Top 3 talent costs too much. We have a lot of 3rd line prospects that could be 2nd liners but our window of opportunity does not allow us to wait for them. Ideally, I would move a package of prospects not named Josi or Ekholm for a bryan little or a Paul Statsny or a Jussi Jokinen. I would be willing to move both Ellis and Wilson if the right deal could be made. Statsny may cost more than the other two, but it is doable. I would not move any of the big three to make this move happen. If we can land top 3 talent without giving up Josi or Ekholm, but without removing one of our current top players or the big three, I would do it, but that scenario is unlikely to happen.
Poile is that you?

I tend to agree but to make it to the next level we need a top 3 talent, IMO. If it means we lose a top 6 player we already have albeit but we have no top 3 talent in our forward core. Id trade pekka and a top sixer (itd be hard to part with marty but if it was the right deal id do it) for the right person, it could make us lethal.

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08-27-2011, 06:30 PM
  #115
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I think we all agree that we need an elite forward in order to really take that next step, but after an entire summer of picking apart what it would take to even make that look like a vague possibility it makes sense that we will probably add a 50+ pt guy before we add a 70+ pt guy. I don't think it's changing one's story to accept that these elite-type guys just aren't moved very often. When those trades do happen there is typically an underlying issue. Heatley didn't seem to be fitting in with the Sharks, so he was traded for Havlat. Both of those guys were 60pt players last seasons. Heatley has had two 100+ pt seasons, and Havlat has never broken 80 pts plus he has injury concerns so that points to there being an underlying issue with Heatley. In their other deal, SJ sent Setoguchi to Minnesota for Burns. Setoguchi is, for now, one or two tiers down from the top tier of forwards in the league. Burns, while a good defenseman, is a tier down from the Webers and Charas in the league. These big deals where star players are swapped just aren't very likely to happen, so it seems to me that the discussion is at its best when it's directed towards the realistic more than the unlikely. Even if the unlikely scenario is the one that puts the team over the top. A lot of teams are one elite player away from being in serious contention. Most, if not all, of those teams will not get that elite player through a one-for-one trade involving their own elite player. Most, if not all, likely won't even get that player in any type of trade.
So let's take it one step further and end all of this already. For our sake and everyone else's.

So we need a 50 point guy. Poile signed a guy in Bergfors who has average 40 points the last two seasons. He never really fit in. Sound familiar? SK part 2. Why not see what Bergfors can do before we start making moves.

Secondly, why trade Wilson, who is only 21, was number 7 overall and was pegged to be a 60 point player for us when we drafted him? Let's let him develop too. He knows what it takes to be in the NHL and if the playoff bench didn't wake him up, I don't know what will but power forwards generally take time to develop. He's got good hands and skill, he'll be fine. We have 7 guys with the possibility of hitting 50 points each. Another one would be great but we'd have to give one up to get a different one. We're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Let the young guys develop. Get Rads back next year. Move on to later rounds in the playoffs.

We also forget we have a few guys that may get serious looks at camp this year in Smith, Beck and Latta. I wouldn't put it past any of them or all of them to make the team and other guys getting traded. It probably won't happen but there is a big competition for the bottom 6 spots on the roster.

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08-27-2011, 06:48 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So let's take it one step further and end all of this already. For our sake and everyone else's.

So we need a 50 point guy. Poile signed a guy in Bergfors who has average 40 points the last two seasons. He never really fit in. Sound familiar? SK part 2. Why not see what Bergfors can do before we start making moves.

Secondly, why trade Wilson, who is only 21, was number 7 overall and was pegged to be a 60 point player for us when we drafted him? Let's let him develop too. He knows what it takes to be in the NHL and if the playoff bench didn't wake him up, I don't know what will but power forwards generally take time to develop. He's got good hands and skill, he'll be fine. We have 7 guys with the possibility of hitting 50 points each. Another one would be great but we'd have to give one up to get a different one. We're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Let the young guys develop. Get Rads back next year. Move on to later rounds in the playoffs.

We also forget we have a few guys that may get serious looks at camp this year in Smith, Beck and Latta. I wouldn't put it past any of them or all of them to make the team and other guys getting traded. It probably won't happen but there is a big competition for the bottom 6 spots on the roster.
First of all, you don't have to read or post in the thread. That is entirely up to you. I don't see a reason in ending the conversation. I'm enjoying it, actually.

Second, I tend to agree with letting Wilson develop, and I think we should also try to at least use Bergfors as a PP specialist. This thread was borne out of the constant back and forth between those who wanted an elite forward and those who were saying that it isn't likely to happen. That's where the idea of trading Wilson came into play. Speaking for myself here, mentions of trading Wilson shouldn't be taken as indication of a desire to do so. It's merely an attempt at creating an idea for a potential trade. I'd love for Wilson to take further strides in his develop this season, and I think that he will. Between his potential and that of Bergfors, I think it's understandable why Poile seems somewhat comfortable with waiting on making a move rather than moving out of desperation.

Third, it's the summer. We're going to talk about these types of things, and they will be within the context of what moves can be made to help the team this year. It would be awesome if what we have now gets us further than we got last year. Even better if that step forward in success convinces Weber, Suter, and Rinne to re-sign. The pinnacle of joy as a Preds fan up to this point, for me anyway, woud be for that scenario to play out, and then for Radulov to come back next summer. That conversation has plenty of time to happen, though. Right now this is the conversation in which people seem to be wrapped up.

Again, it has never been my intention to bother anyone with all of this. I simply wanted to take the bickering out of the equation by providing realistic options are moves that we can make to improve the team. Ideally, Bergfors and Wilson are enough to improve the one area of our offense that is in dire need of improvement, the power play. The fact remains that even another 50pt forward makes our depth better. If we add another 50+pt guy we are looking at lines like:

SK Fisher Horqnvist
Jokinen (example) Legwand Erat
Wilson O'Reilly Bergfors
Spaling Smithson Tootoo

Three lines with a pretty good chance at scoring, and a more-than-capable shutdown line that showed a level of offensive ability late last season. That is opposed to:

SK Fisher Hornqvist
Wilson Legwand Erat
Halischuk/Geoffrion O'Reilly Bergfors
Spaling Smithson Tootoo

Still three lines with the ability to score, but just moving Wilson down to the third line automatically makes it better than Halischuk or Geoffrion. Nothing against those two, but I feel they aren't as far along in their progression as Wilson is, nor do I feel like they have nearly the ceiling of Wilson.


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Old
08-27-2011, 07:46 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So let's take it one step further and end all of this already. For our sake and everyone else's.

So we need a 50 point guy. Poile signed a guy in Bergfors who has average 40 points the last two seasons. He never really fit in. Sound familiar? SK part 2. Why not see what Bergfors can do before we start making moves.

Secondly, why trade Wilson, who is only 21, was number 7 overall and was pegged to be a 60 point player for us when we drafted him? Let's let him develop too. He knows what it takes to be in the NHL and if the playoff bench didn't wake him up, I don't know what will but power forwards generally take time to develop. He's got good hands and skill, he'll be fine. We have 7 guys with the possibility of hitting 50 points each. Another one would be great but we'd have to give one up to get a different one. We're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Let the young guys develop. Get Rads back next year. Move on to later rounds in the playoffs.

We also forget we have a few guys that may get serious looks at camp this year in Smith, Beck and Latta. I wouldn't put it past any of them or all of them to make the team and other guys getting traded. It probably won't happen but there is a big competition for the bottom 6 spots on the roster.
That is a potentially workable approach ... but it isn't sexy. There are plenty of potential 40-50 point guys on the roster ... but few proven.

We could always use a little more punch up front, but, I still see a glaring need for somebody who can QB the man advantage. Suter has a great all around skillset, but, he isn't really the QB we need. Ellis is a huge question mark for that role. Maybe Josi or Blum can fill the need. The team is o.k. but not stellar at 5on5 scoring ... at least above the league midpoint. The PP is the gaping wound. Fix it, or at least get it to average, and this is a dangerous team.

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08-27-2011, 07:54 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
That is a potentially workable approach ... but it isn't sexy. There are plenty of potential 40-50 point guys on the roster ... but few proven.

We could always use a little more punch up front, but, I still see a glaring need for somebody who can QB the man advantage. Suter has a great all around skillset, but, he isn't really the QB we need. Ellis is a huge question mark for that role. Maybe Josi or Blum can fill the need. The team is o.k. but not stellar at 5on5 scoring ... at least above the league midpoint. The PP is the gaping wound. Fix it, or at least get it to average, and this is a dangerous team.
More than likely another 50 pt guy isn't going to help the PP. Very few 50 pt guys are PP specialists up front. I hope Ellis is part of the answer on the PP. He seems to have that skill set. Whether or not it translates is anybodies guess.

I'm not concerned with sexy as much as I am with wins and losses and getting further in the playoffs. If it means we're boring but we win, then so be it. I happen to like the type of game we play. We're pretty much in every game we play and that can't be said about a lot of teams.

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08-27-2011, 11:35 PM
  #119
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You know when teams offer us a package of prospects and picks for Weber or Suter and we laugh and mock them? Why would a team take a package of potential for proven entities like Parise and Ryan? If we do offer a package, we are giving up at least 2 if not 3 top end prospects and a high draft pick, probably a first. Would you be willing to part with Wilson, Josi, Beck and a 1st to land a guy like Parise? I'd be good with it if we don't include Beck in the deal but that isn't enough to land a guy like Parise. I'd rather give up one player, even if it's a superstar like Suter or Weber to land a Parise or Ryan. I think we don't end up gutting our roster and farm and have the pieces to fill in for the departed. That's just me. I don't think any scenario is going to happen where we land a top end forward.
If we knew Weber was leaving for certain then we would have to take prospects and picks but that's not the case and Parise is going to leave which more of certainty than Weber leaving. Yes I would accept the pkg leaving for Parise I said we are going to have to overpay. Your can't have it both ways unless your have big pockets apparently we don't. You say this Beck shouldn't be included wasn't Wilson considered more of a top prospect than Beck and I don't know anything about him and now everybody wants him gone for peanuts. Now is the time to play both sides and let the chip fall where they may

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08-28-2011, 12:28 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
More than likely another 50 pt guy isn't going to help the PP. Very few 50 pt guys are PP specialists up front. I hope Ellis is part of the answer on the PP. He seems to have that skill set. Whether or not it translates is anybodies guess.

I'm not concerned with sexy as much as I am with wins and losses and getting further in the playoffs. If it means we're boring but we win, then so be it. I happen to like the type of game we play. We're pretty much in every game we play and that can't be said about a lot of teams.
I agree with you I like the way our team plays which is perative that are pp works because if your pp doesn't work then teams will take liberties with no fear that pp will haunt them.

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08-28-2011, 01:19 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by roseyc View Post
If we knew Weber was leaving for certain then we would have to take prospects and picks but that's not the case and Parise is going to leave which more of certainty than Weber leaving. Yes I would accept the pkg leaving for Parise I said we are going to have to overpay. Your can't have it both ways unless your have big pockets apparently we don't. You say this Beck shouldn't be included wasn't Wilson considered more of a top prospect than Beck and I don't know anything about him and now everybody wants him gone for peanuts. Now is the time to play both sides and let the chip fall where they may
There is this misconception that because Wilson has been tossed around in hypothetical trades that he is ok to be dealt for nothing, but what I've read is Wilson will be the centerpiece in a trade for a forward who is producing at the level at which Wilson is projected to produce. If we are in win-now mode, like a lot of us assume, then we might just have to give up a top prospect or young roster forward with potential for a player that is currently producing at the rate we think that forward might one day produce. It's the nature of the beast. We can wait around for another season or two until Wilson becomes that 60+pt guy, or we can potentially trade him to a rebuilding club for a guy who produces at that rate right now. It doesn't mean it happens, and it doesn't mean we want it to happen. You have to give to get. If we want scoring now, we have to give up future scoring at the least.

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08-28-2011, 01:23 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
More than likely another 50 pt guy isn't going to help the PP. Very few 50 pt guys are PP specialists up front. I hope Ellis is part of the answer on the PP. He seems to have that skill set. Whether or not it translates is anybodies guess.

I'm not concerned with sexy as much as I am with wins and losses and getting further in the playoffs. If it means we're boring but we win, then so be it. I happen to like the type of game we play. We're pretty much in every game we play and that can't be said about a lot of teams.
This is what I've been wrestling with. A 50 pt forward will provide depth, but it won't necessarily help the PP. It could help in that we don't have to put a Joel Ward on the power play, but having Ward on the PP wasn't our problem. As 101st has mentioned, we lack a true PP QB. So I guess the question is, do we trade for a PP QB or do we trade for a forward (assuming, of course, the PP QB is a defenseman)?

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08-28-2011, 08:19 AM
  #123
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what good is a PP QB with our PP anyway? Okay, okay, it's true that we need one. But until the players start skating, and making quicker decisions with the puck, it's easy to defend the Preds and force turnovers at the blueline.

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08-28-2011, 09:03 AM
  #124
glenngineer
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He probably isn't available but if he were, I'd go after Steven Weiss. Good 60 point a year guy on a bad team. Could be had for Wilson and a pick or another top prospect. His salary is modest at $3.1 million for the next two years. While I don't advocate trading good young players for a 2 year rental, he might be a piece that pushes us to the other side. He also has some decent PP numbers so I'd be for it. Fiscally it makes sense. Play on the ice makes sense. Probably won't happen. LOL.

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08-28-2011, 11:29 AM
  #125
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He probably isn't available but if he were, I'd go after Steven Weiss. Good 60 point a year guy on a bad team. Could be had for Wilson and a pick or another top prospect. His salary is modest at $3.1 million for the next two years. While I don't advocate trading good young players for a 2 year rental, he might be a piece that pushes us to the other side. He also has some decent PP numbers so I'd be for it. Fiscally it makes sense. Play on the ice makes sense. Probably won't happen. LOL.
Weiss might be a 60 point guy in Nashville. I think he hit that once in Florida in 8 seasons. He is a 50 point guy, 20 G and 30 A with few PIMS. I wasn't impressed by him when I saw him play for SA and Chicago in the AHL. He could be better now.

I would prefer Rads, if we can get him back. I realize that it is a gigantic if.

I like your comment on the Forsberg mistake. The last thing the Preds need is a guy playing for big bucks who is a has been. Giving up future stars is bad for the team.

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