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Snow still looking for top 4 d-man; training camp invite turned down

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08-28-2011, 03:08 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I completely agree, but I think that one is all about Charles. They won't spend for someone to actually help JT. Yes, it is stupid, and the stupidity is underlined every time I see PAP pretend to be a wing for John and flub a perfect scoring play. Some in here dole out respect to any points Parenteau gets next to John. The rest of us see the points being left on the table by him robbing Tavares of a real line mate. It's not PA's fault though, he plays where the coach puts him. It is Wang's fault for not opening the wallet up enough to get John real 1st line talent, and in part Snow's fault for not being able to effectively explain to his owner how that hurts John and the club both now and in the long run. I have seen many people lament Stamkos' climb to power vs where JT is at. Yeah, how about we put St Louis next to Tavares and see what happens to his totals? I feel bad for Cap in this situation too. If anyone in here doesn't think he goes home from most games and kicks something for lack of a better wing for Tavares then you are fooling yourselves.

Oh my, yeah, that would probably be a bit different. I'd also like to see Stamkos get his points between Moulson and PAP. "Funny" doesn't even have anything to do with it.
see the bolded is one area that proved to me that Wang interferes more than we know, and that Snow is doing all he does, dodging obstacles, because its absolutely correct, its something that even the most clueless of fans would notice so logic tells me that Garth simply has told him time and again, there is simply no way that anyone could not see it. but given that why no change? the only answer that makes sense is that like Lafontaine before him, Wang sometimes just refuses to listen. as i quoted before:

But LaFontaine had advised Wang to take 48 hours before making any final decision about Smith. He then suggested that the owner let the dust settle and not name a replacement today, the source said. After Wang ignored both bits of advice, LaFontaine “decided this was not the right time and place for him,” the person said."

We cant know of course, but logic tells us thats most likely the case

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08-28-2011, 03:25 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I completely agree, but I think that one is all about Charles. They won't spend for someone to actually help JT. Yes, it is stupid, and the stupidity is underlined every time I see PAP pretend to be a wing for John and flub a perfect scoring play. Some in here dole out respect to any points Parenteau gets next to John. The rest of us see the points being left on the table by him robbing Tavares of a real line mate. It's not PA's fault though, he plays where the coach puts him. It is Wang's fault for not opening the wallet up enough to get John real 1st line talent, and in part Snow's fault for not being able to effectively explain to his owner how that hurts John and the club both now and in the long run. I have seen many people lament Stamkos' climb to power vs where JT is at. Yeah, how about we put St Louis next to Tavares and see what happens to his totals? I feel bad for Cap in this situation too. If anyone in here doesn't think he goes home from most games and kicks something for lack of a better wing for Tavares then you are fooling yourselves.

Oh my, yeah, that would probably be a bit different. I'd also like to see Stamkos get his points between Moulson and PAP. "Funny" doesn't even have anything to do with it.
I'm sure Wang doesn't want a 7 or 8 million contract, but there has to be a middle ground. I don't think signing a guy like Cory Stillman, Ray Whitney, Jason Arnott, or players of that ilk would have broken the bank. Wang most likely would have been for those moves. 50-60 point veteran forwards are not a rarity.

As much as everyone would like to blame Wang, Snow is still at fault here. Like I said in my earlier post, and have said, the Islanders are in a position of strength right now regarding their prospect pool. Snow needs to utilize that and make a deal. You can only play and hold onto prospects for so long before they lose their value. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him pulling a Milbury and completely emptying the cupboard. A package of a 1st rounder, A,B level prospect (Nelson, Lee, etc), and Comeau is a starting point to get a player that Islanders need.

Going into this season with the lineup they have at the moment, it's looking like another lottery pick.

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08-28-2011, 03:37 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by macleod50 View Post
I'm sure Wang doesn't want a 7 or 8 million contract, but there has to be a middle ground. I don't think signing a guy like Cory Stillman, Ray Whitney, Jason Arnott, or players of that ilk would have broken the bank. Wang most likely would have been for those moves. 50-60 point veteran forwards are not a rarity.

As much as everyone would like to blame Wang, Snow is still at fault here. Like I said in my earlier post, and have said, the Islanders are in a position of strength right now regarding their prospect pool. Snow needs to utilize that and make a deal. You can only play and hold onto prospects for so long before they lose their value. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him pulling a Milbury and completely emptying the cupboard. A package of a 1st rounder, A,B level prospect (Nelson, Lee, etc), and Comeau is a starting point to get a player that Islanders need.

Going into this season with the lineup they have at the moment, it's looking like another lottery pick.

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08-28-2011, 03:51 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Sammy2010 View Post
Yea, I could tell by the results.
Rome wasn't built in a day and you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

Just like in any business, a good, lasting turnaround often means you get worse before you get better and it takes time to lay the foundation for success.

But there is a plan and we are very clearly headed in the right direction.

This is clear to any objective observer (like all the hockey people raving about our prospect pool), but obviously lost on many of the impatient, instant gratification fans of today that are used to trading for Crosby and Ovechkin in their PS3 hockey...

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08-28-2011, 03:56 PM
  #105
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Rome wasn't built in a day and you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

Just like in any business, a good, lasting turnaround often means you get worse before you get better and it takes time to lay the foundation for success.

But there is a plan and we are very clearly headed in the right direction.

This is clear to any objective observer (like all the hockey people raving about our prospect pool), but obviously lost on many of the impatient, instant gratification fans of today that are used to trading for Crosby and Ovechkin in their PS3 hockey...
Actually the team slide back further in the standings last year. 20 years of nothing, but fans like you call it "impatient". Sorry I do not play GM on video games. Get a new talking point.

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08-28-2011, 04:03 PM
  #106
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Actually the team slide back further in the standings last year. 20 years of nothing, but fans like you call it "impatient". Sorry I do not play GM on video games. Get a new talking point.
many teams take a step back before winning

and you conveniently forget we led the league in games lost to injury with over 25% more man games lost than the number 2 team

but far be it from you to consider the facts before whining

and nobody says that you have to stay a fan if you feel they are taking advantage of you

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08-28-2011, 04:08 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
many teams take a step back before winning

and you conveniently forget we led the league in games lost to injury with over 25% more man games lost than the number 2 team

but far be it from you to consider the facts before whining

and nobody says that you have to stay a fan if you feel they are taking advantage of you
And we've reacted to leading the league in man games lost by making the roster thinner, not deeper.

The Isles offseason has been a complete failure so far. There's still time for Snow to add a defenseman through a trade, but when you look at the roster we currently have I don't know how anyone thinks we'll finish above 10th or 11th place. That should be unacceptable 5 years after starting this rebuilding process.

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08-28-2011, 04:11 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
many teams take a step back before winning

and you conveniently forget we led the league in games lost to injury with over 25% more man games lost than the number 2 team

but far be it from you to consider the facts before whining

and nobody says that you have to stay a fan if you feel they are taking advantage of you
I did not conveniently forget. Injuries are part of the game, and it is on Snow to cover for them.

I stick to facts, unlike you who makes things up as he goes along. Just as another poster mentioned. Wait I thought I was not a real fan, you know you are the guy who has been here for the good and bad. Regardless of the fact that I have liked them since before they won their first cup.

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08-28-2011, 04:30 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
see the bolded is one area that proved to me that Wang interferes more than we know, and that Snow is doing all he does, dodging obstacles, because its absolutely correct, its something that even the most clueless of fans would notice so logic tells me that Garth simply has told him time and again, there is simply no way that anyone could not see it. but given that why no change? the only answer that makes sense is that like Lafontaine before him, Wang sometimes just refuses to listen. as i quoted before:

But LaFontaine had advised Wang to take 48 hours before making any final decision about Smith. He then suggested that the owner let the dust settle and not name a replacement today, the source said. After Wang ignored both bits of advice, LaFontaine “decided this was not the right time and place for him,” the person said."

We cant know of course, but logic tells us thats most likely the case
For me it was the DiPietro scandal when prior to Rick's big vacation Snow was forced to keep him on the bench as the back up when he was obviously injured. No matter what the details were behind the move, I will never believe this was Garth's choice. IMO, it was Wang calling the personnel move, and it was so incredibly stupid... eh, words cannot even express the stupidity. And like you said, there are other bits of evidence as well of Wang getting involved on a level someone of his hockey ignorance level should avoid.

I agree with your entire post. I do have issues absolving Snow of all culpability in this, but in general the bad guy here is clearly Wang. I FEAR what we would wind up with if Snow left. Wang's gardener as GM? It wouldn't surprise me at all.

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08-28-2011, 05:13 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by macleod50 View Post
I'm sure Wang doesn't want a 7 or 8 million contract, but there has to be a middle ground. I don't think signing a guy like Cory Stillman, Ray Whitney, Jason Arnott, or players of that ilk would have broken the bank. Wang most likely would have been for those moves. 50-60 point veteran forwards are not a rarity.

As much as everyone would like to blame Wang, Snow is still at fault here. Like I said in my earlier post, and have said, the Islanders are in a position of strength right now regarding their prospect pool. Snow needs to utilize that and make a deal. You can only play and hold onto prospects for so long before they lose their value. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him pulling a Milbury and completely emptying the cupboard. A package of a 1st rounder, A,B level prospect (Nelson, Lee, etc), and Comeau is a starting point to get a player that Islanders need.

Going into this season with the lineup they have at the moment, it's looking like another lottery pick.
I don't absolve Snow, but look at where the salary is. That is Wang, not Snow.

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08-28-2011, 05:22 PM
  #111
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For me it was the DiPietro scandal when prior to Rick's big vacation Snow was forced to keep him on the bench as the back up when he was obviously injured. No matter what the details were behind the move, I will never believe this was Garth's choice. IMO, it was Wang calling the personnel move, and it was so incredibly stupid... eh, words cannot even express the stupidity. And like you said, there are other bits of evidence as well of Wang getting involved on a level someone of his hockey ignorance level should avoid.

I agree with your entire post. I do have issues absolving Snow of all culpability in this, but in general the bad guy here is clearly Wang. I FEAR what we would wind up with if Snow left. Wang's gardener as GM? It wouldn't surprise me at all.
i believe that as long as we see definable progress, we are better off, and you hit upon my greatest fear as well, you know what they say be careful what you wish for? We could literally see Wang as GM.

who was it Bob Short I think owner of the then Washington Senators who was going to manage for a day?, Wang strikes me as the type of alpha personality who thinks he could do it

no one least of all me is saying Snow has been perfect, but the very fact that we are showing definite progress means Garth is keeping Wang at bay, and that means he's doing a better job than most give him credit for.

you might be too young to remember this but google Ted Stepien, former owner of the cleveland Cavaliers, look at what he did nearly killing that franchise, and then tell me Garth has failed..... The only ones who have failed are the fans who dont learn from history

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2007...s-worthy-rule/

i included a link for you, its down on the page but youll see why guys like sammy just dont get it and likely never will, their view of the world just doesnt account for the possibility of owners like this

We could wind up without a team and to me Garth is our best hope, and I give him credit for all he's done, including keeping his sanity


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08-28-2011, 05:35 PM
  #112
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i believe that as long as we see definable progress, we are better off, and you hit upon my greatest fear as well, you know what they say be careful what you wish for? We could literally see Wang as GM.
He certainly has the ego to make that move, and is draft experienced.

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08-28-2011, 05:39 PM
  #113
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i included a link for you, its down on the page but youll see why guys like sammy just dont get it and likely never will, their view of the world just doesnt account for the possibility of owners like this

More insults. You have such a compelling argument.


The only pleasure I will get when they do not make the playoffs this year is to watch fans like you try and justify it AGAIN.

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08-28-2011, 05:43 PM
  #114
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Actually the team slide back further in the standings last year. 20 years of nothing, but fans like you call it "impatient". Sorry I do not play GM on video games. Get a new talking point.
You are clearly blind, then. Nearly every hockey person has talked about the great talent Garth is accumulating. Nearly all of them had talked about the Isles *finally* doing it the right way by tearing it down and rebuilding.

But you want to complain and say we aren't moving forward? Ok...

Maybe you should start playing gm on PS3...

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08-28-2011, 05:46 PM
  #115
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More insults. You have such a compelling argument.


The only pleasure I will get when they do not make the playoffs this year is to watch fans like you try and justify it AGAIN.
and the only frustration i will experience is when Snow finally raises the stanley Cup symbolizing the Isles 5th championship, is that you will stand up and take a bow and say: "I knew he could do it all along"

but you know what, thats ok because then you'll really know that he did what was necessary and I'll be happy for you.

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08-28-2011, 05:49 PM
  #116
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You are clearly blind, then. Nearly every hockey person has talked about the great talent Garth is accumulating. Nearly all of them had talked about the Isles *finally* doing it the right way by tearing it down and rebuilding.

But you want to complain and say we aren't moving forward? Ok...

Maybe you should start playing gm on PS3...
They also talk about the fact that he has to bring quality vets in to get the team to the next level. But you gladly left that part out. The team will just spin its wheels without them.

On look, another childish PS3 comment.

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08-28-2011, 05:50 PM
  #117
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and the only frustration i will experience is when Snow finally raises the stanley Cup symbolizing the Isles 5th championship, is that you will stand up and take a bow and say: "I knew he could do it all along"

but you know what, thats ok because then you'll really know that he did what was necessary and I'll be happy for you.
If he wins the cup I will gladly say I read him wrong.

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08-28-2011, 06:09 PM
  #118
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08-28-2011, 06:09 PM
  #119
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If he wins the cup I will gladly say I read him wrong.
That all anybody asks, I have 4 in my life and Im lucky because I worked for the Isles at the time as a security intern, so I want everyone to have the memories I do.

I promise you this, When it happens, and i believe it will, youre entire perception of this period will change, no longer will you see these years as painful, They will be a badge of honor you wear proudly, because you got through them and came out the other side.

and in 50 years the memory will be as fresh as yesterday

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08-28-2011, 06:14 PM
  #120
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And we've reacted to leading the league in man games lost by making the roster thinner, not deeper.

The Isles offseason has been a complete failure so far. There's still time for Snow to add a defenseman through a trade, but when you look at the roster we
currently have I don't know how anyone thinks we'll finish above 10th or 11th place. That should be unacceptable 5 years after starting
this rebuilding process.
How is our roster thinner? Were at the 23 man limit

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08-28-2011, 06:29 PM
  #121
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i believe that as long as we see definable progress, we are better off, and you hit upon my greatest fear as well, you know what they say be careful what you wish for? We could literally see Wang as GM.

who was it Bob Short I think owner of the then Washington Senators who was going to manage for a day?, Wang strikes me as the type of alpha personality who thinks he could do it...
No need to go any farther than Harold Ballard. There are others as well, but he may have been the #1 worst owner in the history of the NHL over the past 40 years, and that is saying something when you consider the shysters, mobsters, and charlatans that have owned teams or been involved as executives in the past. As for age, I watched the Nets in the NVMC, if that tells you anything, and enjoyed watching Potvin dethrone Brad Park as the best defenseman in the NY area. I enjoyed the hell out of that actually.

One note though, I see you and some others getting on Sammy's case. I have no idea what the history is here, who the bad guy/good guy is, but you and I are having a normal discussion, Sammy and I despite some significant differences in opinions have normal discussions, so I am left wondering how come you guys can't do the same. I'm not criticizing anyone here, just wondering what it would be like if we all just talked this stuff out without the flames and put downs and some mutual respect for differing opinions. Then we could all focus on the important stuff - like hating Toronto fans.

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08-28-2011, 06:39 PM
  #122
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How is our roster thinner? Were at the 23 man limit
Talent wise....

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08-28-2011, 06:46 PM
  #123
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I'm sure Wang doesn't want a 7 or 8 million contract, but there has to be a middle ground. I don't think signing a guy like Cory Stillman, Ray Whitney, Jason Arnott, or players of that ilk would have broken the bank. Wang most likely would have been for those moves. 50-60 point veteran forwards are not a rarity.

As much as everyone would like to blame Wang, Snow is still at fault here. Like I said in my earlier post, and have said, the Islanders are in a position of strength right now regarding their prospect pool. Snow needs to utilize that and make a deal. You can only play and hold onto prospects for so long before they lose their value. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him pulling a Milbury and completely emptying the cupboard. A package of a 1st rounder, A,B level prospect (Nelson, Lee, etc), and Comeau is a starting point to get a player that Islanders need.

Going into this season with the lineup they have at the moment, it's looking like another lottery pick.
How do we know someone's out there, though?

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08-28-2011, 07:17 PM
  #124
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No need to go any farther than Harold Ballard. There are others as well, but he may have been the #1 worst owner in the history of the NHL over the past 40 years, and that is saying something when you consider the shysters, mobsters, and charlatans that have owned teams or been involved as executives in the past. As for age, I watched the Nets in the NVMC, if that tells you anything, and enjoyed watching Potvin dethrone Brad Park as the best defenseman in the NY area. I enjoyed the hell out of that actually.

One note though, I see you and some others getting on Sammy's case. I have no idea what the history is here, who the bad guy/good guy is, but you and I are having a normal discussion, Sammy and I despite some significant differences in opinions have normal discussions, so I am left wondering how come you guys can't do the same. I'm not criticizing anyone here, just wondering what it would be like if we all just talked this stuff out without the flames and put downs and some mutual respect for differing opinions. Then we could all focus on the important stuff - like hating Toronto fans.
actually i have nothing against sammy, nothing at all. I have a natural bias against holding anything against someone for things beyond their control however, and whenever I see normally intelligent people blaming others for things well in the past, Well before Snow even got here, I see red.

To me thats deliberately being ignorant, because none of us can change the past, and Why should anyone be held accountable for decisions Made by others?

its ignorant and while i understand it can happen, why would anyone choose to be ignorant? I'd like to believe that i can learn from anyone and Ill do my best to give others any Knowledge I possess, but dont expect me ever to accept deliberate ignorance, we're all here voluntarily, so i feel I owe you and everyone else who reads my posts my passionate best and I try to give it.

What you saw was my intolerance and frustration, with a normaally intelligent human being choosing to be feign ignorance

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08-28-2011, 07:53 PM
  #125
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I think its us that Maloney was saying he was working on a deal for a centermen. Snow and Maloney have a good relationship and with the needs of both teams it just makes sense.

Assuming the veteran D who turned down the invite was McCabe, and he doesnt change his mind(which is dumb, the guy isn't going to get a contract from anyone) then I think we will see eithe Aucoin/Morris/Roszival come here in a trade.

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