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I know Subban is unanimous number 1 but..

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Old
08-25-2011, 07:11 PM
  #26
lamp9post
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Leblanc should be in that top 6..not Desharnais.
Desharnais has great puck skills, can keep and protect the puck well against bigger defenders (think about the goal by Sopel vs the Bruins in the playoffs he set up), and has probably the best spatial awareness on the team. He's got a very unique skillset, despite some flaws. By no means is he a sure thing, but neither is Leblanc. The way I see it, they have similar upsides:

Desharnais: 2nd/3rd line centre
Leblanc: 2nd/3rd line winger

Leblanc should excel on the forecheck, defensively, and on PK while DD should excel on the PP and as a playmaker.

They are different type of players, but I don't see how Leblanc projects as clearly a more impactful player if both reach their potential. The way I see it, if both reach their potential, they should have roughly an equal impact, although in different ways.

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08-25-2011, 07:41 PM
  #27
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you can't have a discussion about players being the under-25 "core" when they haven't even given an indication they can make it to the NHL.

It was a good list, if healthy Pacioretty is my man. John Leclairesque.
I concur on the first point. But Pacioretty comparison? I don't think so. LeClair was a very, very thick body--something Pacioretty just doesn't have the build to be, at least not to the extent LeClair was. In other ways, I see some of the comparison though. His ability to quickly score from the goal mouth, controlling the puck and taking abuse as he quickly tucks the puck under goaltender's pads. His speed, which LeClair had earlier in his career. Maybe LeClair lite?

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08-25-2011, 09:19 PM
  #28
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I think Pacioretty will learn a lot from Cole ... they are the same kind of player. Big, strong, great top speed, go in front of the net.

I remember when we were saying we have nobody to go in front of the net, now we have Cole, Pacioretty and some players who likes to go in that area sometime like Gionta and Kostytsin

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08-25-2011, 11:51 PM
  #29
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i know the DD hype gets much at times, but i have no trouble seeing him become a great 2nd line winger/center. no one can argue his vision and hockey IQ.

and i don't get the LJV 'hate'. he's young, and hs shown last season what he can do and he can only get better. there is still room for improvement, but he does what he does well and quietly. and on top of that, i like that he can be thrown in as a forward and not suck. streit MK II? oh, and i almost forgot: bear killer

pacioretty, if he comes back better then last season will be a permanent fixture in our top 6 for years to come

beaulieu, tinordi and co. haven't even played in the A yet, so i see no reason to put them ahead of these two. leblanc hasn't shown **** yet and im not convinced he ever will.

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08-26-2011, 12:29 AM
  #30
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Wow, surprised that still noone trusts Weber. You already wrote him off two years ago, but I thought he proved you wrong. He played physical although he's small, and he scored everytime we faced the Bruins. He lit up the AHL and showed why in the big league, while he made huge steps in his defensive game.
Now, it seems like he wouldn't even be good enough to fill a #6 spot.
I really hope he gets traded soon, it's better for him.

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08-26-2011, 12:37 AM
  #31
Bill McNeal
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Originally Posted by swissexpert View Post
Wow, surprised that still noone trusts Weber. You already wrote him off two years ago, but I thought he proved you wrong. He played physical although he's small, and he scored everytime we faced the Bruins. He lit up the AHL and showed why in the big league, while he made huge steps in his defensive game.
Now, it seems like he wouldn't even be good enough to fill a #6 spot.
I really hope he gets traded soon, it's better for him.
I'm becoming a big fan. I think he could be a reliable second pairing guy as early as this season.

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08-26-2011, 01:48 AM
  #32
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I'm becoming a big fan. I think he could be a reliable second pairing guy as early as this season.
Completely agree. I like his skating, poise, and I feel he's bulked up enough and has some low center of gravity to compete down low. He seems to understand fundamentals of defensive zone hockey now, and he knows how to create some time for himself to move the puck well even under pressure. Montreal needs that, as teams frequently try to go heavy on the forecheck against Montreal's less capable puck moving defensemen.

He'll never be a top-2 defenseman, but I could see him developing into a solid puck moving second pairing blueliner--which are very valuable.


swissexpert, I completely disagree that it'd be better for Weber to be traded. Montreal doesn't have enough puck moving defensemen, and his transition game and skating would be better appreciated by Montreal's management and coaching staff than many clubs in the league, in my view.

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08-26-2011, 02:21 AM
  #33
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Players with highest value (imo) and order of importance to our Habs (imo!):

1. Carey Price and/or PK Subban
2. Pernell-Karl Subban and/or Price
3. Lars Eller and/or Nathan Beaulieu
4. Max Pacioretty (all depends on his health *knock on wood*) and/or Louis Leblanc
5. Desharnais (underdog small hero) or Weber (underrated?overrated?)
6. Emelin? (hopefully his value goes up as he plays...we may have to be patient even though we already waited 5 years for him!! I hope he can adapt quickly of course!)
7. Jarred Tinordi (value should/will go higher and higher...matter of time...should be in top 5 of this list in no time...I'm hoping he will be an intimidating ''defensive tower'' of a dman, a solid #3-4 dman for us, and at worst...a solid and mean #5-6dman for us...the best #5-6dman in the league! a more mobile/faster/better/tougher/grittier version of Hal Gill!).
8. Brendan Gallagher and/or Kristo and/or Palushaj (hopefully one of them ends up a good or decent 2nd liner and the other...maybe a good/solid 3rd liner? still have to wait with Kristo, and Palushaj just needs to bulk up for the physical aspect of NHL).
9a. Diaz...could be our darkhorse dman...can't wait to see what he can do at the NHL level (I'd give him at least one season and a half before really analyzing his play...could be a good one if he is given chances/time/patience).
9b. Mac Bennett...hoping he will be a solid #4-5-6 dman for us one day (when will he play for our AHL farm team -Bulldogs- ?)
10. Bournival...still don't know enough about him except that I saw him play in one game vs Mtl Junior but paid more attention to our L.Leblanc (we still had O'Byrne at the time!). I just remember Bournival being a fast/smooth/good skater.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 08-26-2011 at 07:45 AM.
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08-26-2011, 08:02 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by swissexpert View Post
Wow, surprised that still noone trusts Weber. You already wrote him off two years ago, but I thought he proved you wrong. He played physical although he's small, and he scored everytime we faced the Bruins. He lit up the AHL and showed why in the big league, while he made huge steps in his defensive game.
Now, it seems like he wouldn't even be good enough to fill a #6 spot.
I really hope he gets traded soon, it's better for him.
Just because a bunch of haters on this forum bash the guy doesn't make that the case with our management. He's going to get to play.

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08-26-2011, 11:38 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by AK46Awesome View Post

1) Price
2) Subban

3) Pacioretty
4) Eller
The young in the NHL core, consists of these 4. All other guys are either not ascending, or are not in the same catagory as these 4. I'd say there are 2 tiers here too. Price and Subban, and then Eller and Pacioretty.

Beyond those 4 there are prospects I value higher...

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08-26-2011, 03:56 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by swissexpert View Post
Wow, surprised that still noone trusts Weber. You already wrote him off two years ago, but I thought he proved you wrong. He played physical although he's small, and he scored everytime we faced the Bruins. He lit up the AHL and showed why in the big league, while he made huge steps in his defensive game.
Now, it seems like he wouldn't even be good enough to fill a #6 spot.
I really hope he gets traded soon, it's better for him.
Woah relax a little. I think your reading a little too far into things. Clearly management thinks highly of him to give him the 2 yr deal and this stage of his career. I agree with everything you have said, but the extra year on the deal shows they are willing to commit to him being a long-term player for this team. It gives him ample time to fill out voids in his game and become a real solid player (if he fulfills potential) by the time his contract comes up again and should get a nice increase.

I'm sold on Weber, despite having him lower on my rankings. I feel he is one of the "safest" picks in our organization right now in terms of where I think they'll be and what they can contribute. To begin the season he is already #5-6 on the team as of now, I think he can eventually move up to 2nd pairing potential over the course of the season. The reason I have Emelin ranked higher on my list is being I feel he fills a more pressing need on the back-end in the terms of mobility AND physicality.That being said, while I believe Emelin's potential impact can be bigger I also admit that the likelihood of reaching that said potential is not as much of a sure thing.

I am confident Weber is going to establish himself this season as at the very least a solid-bottom pairing defender on any team, and a threat on the PP. I'm seeing 7-10G and 30-35PTS from Weber this season.

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08-26-2011, 08:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
Desharnais has great puck skills, can keep and protect the puck well against bigger defenders (think about the goal by Sopel vs the Bruins in the playoffs he set up), and has probably the best spatial awareness on the team. He's got a very unique skillset, despite some flaws. By no means is he a sure thing, but neither is Leblanc. The way I see it, they have similar upsides:

Desharnais: 2nd/3rd line centre
Leblanc: 2nd/3rd line winger

Leblanc should excel on the forecheck, defensively, and on PK while DD should excel on the PP and as a playmaker.

They are different type of players, but I don't see how Leblanc projects as clearly a more impactful player if both reach their potential. The way I see it, if both reach their potential, they should have roughly an equal impact, although in different ways.
One more offseason with yoga and another with roids and they'll be ready to rock n roll

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Old
08-27-2011, 05:11 AM
  #38
Mr. Hab
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If it were up to me::

I'd trade Markov for...Zach Bogosian. http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?6587
He would go straight to our top 5 most important Hab players (25 and under).


Markov has a no trade clause (I think).
Anyways...I'm still hoping Markov will bounce back and have some luck on his side with regards to his fragile body (he better stay healthy...getting fed up of his fragile body).


The future...
Tinordi - PK Subban
Beaulieu - Bogosian!
Gorges?/Bennett? - Jordan Subban


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 08-27-2011 at 05:36 AM.
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08-27-2011, 07:20 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
If it were up to me::

I'd trade Markov for...Zach Bogosian. http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?6587
He would go straight to our top 5 most important Hab players (25 and under).


Markov has a no trade clause (I think).
Anyways...I'm still hoping Markov will bounce back and have some luck on his side with regards to his fragile body (he better stay healthy...getting fed up of his fragile body).


The future...
Tinordi - PK Subban
Beaulieu - Bogosian!
Gorges?/Bennett? - Jordan Subban
Man, didn't realise that Bogosian is still just 21 years old. Anyways, forget about trading Markov for anybody, teams just don't trade players they have just signed, it's a lack of professionalism that would end up in us never being able to sign anybody for years after. Imagine the consequences of a low blow like that when the player has been with us for 10+ years...

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08-27-2011, 09:34 PM
  #40
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Man, didn't realise that Bogosian is still just 21 years old. Anyways, forget about trading Markov for anybody, teams just don't trade players they have just signed, it's a lack of professionalism that would end up in us never being able to sign anybody for years after. Imagine the consequences of a low blow like that when the player has been with us for 10+ years...
Kind of sounds like NHL 11 , be a gm , play much?

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08-27-2011, 10:19 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Man, didn't realise that Bogosian is still just 21 years old. Anyways, forget about trading Markov for anybody, teams just don't trade players they have just signed, it's a lack of professionalism that would end up in us never being able to sign anybody for years after. Imagine the consequences of a low blow like that when the player has been with us for 10+ years...
Setoguchi?

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08-28-2011, 10:14 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Price2Pleks View Post
Setoguchi?
Pretty unprofessional but he was at least an RFA.

You start doing that to UFA you signed 3-5 year deals with and see how many want to sign with you in the future.

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08-28-2011, 01:20 PM
  #43
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I'd put Eller behind Price and Subban. I just see something special in him. It might take a few years to put it together but to me he's going to be at the very least a 2nd line center. I haven't seen a youngster work, battle and run after the puck so hard and with so much energy for many years. And we all know he has got a lot of skills.

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08-28-2011, 01:28 PM
  #44
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I'd put Eller behind Price and Subban. I just see something special in him. It might take a few years to put it together but to me he's going to be at the very least a 2nd line center. I haven't seen a youngster work, battle and run after the puck so hard and with so much energy for many years. And we all know he has got a lot of skills.

Im not sold on him yet. It'll be interesting to see how much he improves this year. He really needs to work on his shot / start using it more. Every single goal he has in the NHL so far has been off a rebound or tip in except that one nice one in Boston.

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08-28-2011, 01:29 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by swissexpert View Post
Wow, surprised that still noone trusts Weber. You already wrote him off two years ago, but I thought he proved you wrong. He played physical although he's small, and he scored everytime we faced the Bruins. He lit up the AHL and showed why in the big league, while he made huge steps in his defensive game.
Now, it seems like he wouldn't even be good enough to fill a #6 spot.
I really hope he gets traded soon, it's better for him.
Yes, he tore up the AHL, but in his various looks at the NHL he has not really impressed other than perhaps one or two games. I'm not ready to give up on him entirely, but at the same time I recognize he is unlikely to be a major contributor for us.

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08-28-2011, 03:21 PM
  #46
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Completely agree. I like his skating, poise, and I feel he's bulked up enough and has some low center of gravity to compete down low. He seems to understand fundamentals of defensive zone hockey now, and he knows how to create some time for himself to move the puck well even under pressure. Montreal needs that, as teams frequently try to go heavy on the forecheck against Montreal's less capable puck moving defensemen.

He'll never be a top-2 defenseman, but I could see him developing into a solid puck moving second pairing blueliner--which are very valuable.


swissexpert, I completely disagree that it'd be better for Weber to be traded. Montreal doesn't have enough puck moving defensemen, and his transition game and skating would be better appreciated by Montreal's management and coaching staff than many clubs in the league, in my view.
Markov is signed for 3 years, Subban will be a long time Habs, so you have there 2 elite puckmovers.. This summer Gauthier has made 2 big signings in Diaz and Emelin, I dont think its far off to think at least 1 of them could have an impact with the team.. Diaz will impress alot of people with his overall play.. Im also excited to see what Emelin will do at camp.. Guys like Bennett Beaulieu will probably join the Bulldogs next year while Nash still can develop his game.. Personally I think Weber will feel the heat and have a pretty good start, but I think Habs brass could be tempted to trade him if the return is good and our new guys are doing well..


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08-28-2011, 04:04 PM
  #47
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Brendan Gallagher is going to be on our top two lines within three years. book it.

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08-28-2011, 04:54 PM
  #48
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Brendan Gallagher is going to be on our top two lines within three years. book it.
I like Gallagher and I hope he makes the team some day, but who's spot is he taking within the next 3 years? Gio,Cammy,Cole or Pacioretty? Don't see any of those guys leaving.

Maybe Gionta's spot in 4 years once his contract is up. I think they'll probably resign Cammy.

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08-28-2011, 05:04 PM
  #49
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Yes, he tore up the AHL, but in his various looks at the NHL he has not really impressed other than perhaps one or two games. I'm not ready to give up on him entirely, but at the same time I recognize he is unlikely to be a major contributor for us.
Did you think the same thing about Plek his first season? I just don't get how you come to that conclusion after he plays in the NHL half a season with limited ice time and sometimes as a forward. Not like he's had time to prove much but he did get two goals in the post season in 3 games.

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08-28-2011, 05:20 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by scrowe21 View Post
I like Gallagher and I hope he makes the team some day, but who's spot is he taking within the next 3 years? Gio,Cammy,Cole or Pacioretty? Don't see any of those guys leaving.

Maybe Gionta's spot in 4 years once his contract is up. I think they'll probably resign Cammy.
The Habs have now the depth to roll 3 solid lines that can score goals.. I dont see why Gallagher couldnt crack the top 9 in 2-3 years from now..

At the moment the top 9 looks like this:

Cammy Pleks Cole

Gionta Gomez Paccioretty

Palushaj/Desharnais Eller Kostitsyn

the fourth line


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