HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Hockey News predicts Habs will finish 8th in East

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-29-2011, 07:51 AM
  #251
Nicko999
Registered User
 
Nicko999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,618
vCash: 174
If we're healthy we can fight for the division but of course it won't happen since we're never injury-free.

I predict a 6th place.

Nicko999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 08:43 AM
  #252
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
If we're healthy we can fight for the division but of course it won't happen since we're never injury-free.

I predict a 6th place.
I hate it when people say we alway have injuries.

2007-2008 people!!

PricePkPatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 11:07 AM
  #253
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,480
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by mix1home View Post
It will be funny if you traded 1C to us for second rounder while you don't really have anything better yourself. Grabo is 2C, period.

I agree that he will not score 50 points, which = that team will miss difference in Wiz production. Wiz was no liability on your D aside form pure production.

And I disagree that Markov will not miss a bit. I also disagree that limited speed will allow him be as effective. It will affect team speed, which Montreal relies on.
I agree that Grab is a 2nd line centre but my point was that whoever is your 2ndline in terms of points, won't be a top 10in the NHL next year, do you agree or disagree?

Wiz didn't get 50 points for Montreal last year, he only got 30 points for us, Markov getting 30 points is very much in the realm of possibility.

I would bet even money that Markov will have 30 points on the season. Would you bet against that?

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 11:56 AM
  #254
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,952
vCash: 500
Plus, Markov is three time the defensive player Wiz isz

PricePkPatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 12:12 PM
  #255
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
The coaching is a cop out. The Leafs don't have a good enough team, period. That falls on the GM, not the coach. When you miss the playoffs again, blame Brian Burke, not Ron Wilson.
I agree that the Leafs don't have a good enough team, especially on the blueline. But I'm not sure that Ron Wilson is helping. He seemed to have a screwy way to play to the score in previous seasons.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 12:19 PM
  #256
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I agree that the Leafs don't have a good enough team, especially on the blueline. But Ron Wilson isn't helping.
Beyond the special teams argument what amazes me is how Wilson seems to consistently avoid any kind of line matchup strategy. Judging by the quality of competition metrics he seems to just be throwing lines out there without regard to who they are facing. Normally a line doing as well as Grabrovski's would be used to try and limit the damage by playing more of a power on power role, especially to get Kessel's unit out against some weaker players.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 12:20 PM
  #257
hockeygeek
Rejisturd User
 
hockeygeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4life74 View Post
Since when is Lupul a top 6 forward? Most teams he's a top 9.
I don't want to get into a pissing match on the Habs board but Lupul is generally on pace for 50+ points and 20+ goals which easily slots him into a top 6 role and coming off his first healthy offseason since his blood infection he should be able to live up to that

hockeygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 12:47 PM
  #258
11Goat11
Inside her
 
11Goat11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,762
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Beyond the special teams argument what amazes me is how Wilson seems to consistently avoid any kind of line matchup strategy. Judging by the quality of competition metrics he seems to just be throwing lines out there without regard to who they are facing. Normally a line doing as well as Grabrovski's would be used to try and limit the damage by playing more of a power on power role, especially to get Kessel's unit out against some weaker players.
Agree with this, Wilson's coaching is too pre-lockout NHL imo. New assistants should help their PP and PK but they were so awful they will probably improve to middle of the pack, first year at least.

Burke's devotion to Wilson could ultimately be his undoing in Toronto, Ron is probably the worst coach in the league right now or at least on the biggest hotseat. This is not to bash him but just my opinion based on his troubles with past and present players, and that the Leafs have been consistently terrible in coachable areas, PP, PK etc. They should have given Eakins the job this year, start the year with a fresh outlook because I still do not see them making the playoffs, frankly I am glad they didn't though.

Martin is oldschool as well but I like what he is doing in Montreal and you can't argue with the special team numbers. He also has the right mix of players for his system to work imo. If everything works out for Montreal they will finish top 3 and win the division imo, if not and injuries derail the team than I still predict at least 8th. I am biased but after watching this team compete the last few years, no one in the east scares me.

11Goat11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 01:10 PM
  #259
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
Agree with this, Wilson's coaching is too pre-lockout NHL imo. New assistants should help their PP and PK but they were so awful they will probably improve to middle of the pack, first year at least.

Burke's devotion to Wilson could ultimately be his undoing in Toronto, Ron is probably the worst coach in the league right now or at least on the biggest hotseat. This is not to bash him but just my opinion based on his troubles with past and present players, and that the Leafs have been consistently terrible in coachable areas, PP, PK etc. They should have given Eakins the job this year, start the year with a fresh outlook because I still do not see them making the playoffs, frankly I am glad they didn't though.

Martin is oldschool as well but I like what he is doing in Montreal and you can't argue with the special team numbers. He also has the right mix of players for his system to work imo. If everything works out for Montreal they will finish top 3 and win the division imo, if not and injuries derail the team than I still predict at least 8th. I am biased but after watching this team compete the last few years, no one in the east scares me.
It seems that the current team make up after the rebuild was assembled with Martin in mind. Emphasis on two-way players at the top of the lineup and positional defense on the blueline. While Martin's tactics may be a little bit old-school his bench management is entirely modern with a heavy emphasis on power vs power matchups and in game line adjustments to fit the situation. He doesn't employ the extreme zone start usage that teams like Vancouver and Chicago are experimenting with though, although the team doesn't have the top offensive talent to make that kind of system worthwhile.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 01:20 PM
  #260
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,480
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
Burke's devotion to Wilson could ultimately be his undoing in Toronto, Ron is probably the worst coach in the league right now or at least on the biggest hotseat. This is not to bash him but just my opinion based on his troubles with past and present players, and that the Leafs have been consistently terrible in coachable areas, PP, PK etc. They should have given Eakins the job this year, start the year with a fresh outlook because I still do not see them making the playoffs, frankly I am glad they didn't though.
I disagree that Burke's devotion to Wilson will be his undoing. Not assembling a quality team is a far bigger problem of Burke's. Toronto didn't have the talent to make the playoffs last year based on Burke's talent analysis and going with Giggy and the Monster. If Wilson didn't give Reimer a chance, there season would have been a complete write off.

I don't think they have the talent this year to make the team but I think them missing the playoffs will be the perfect opportunity to fire Wilson. Then it conveniently buys Burke 2 more years.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 01:45 PM
  #261
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I disagree that Burke's devotion to Wilson will be his undoing. Not assembling a quality team is a far bigger problem of Burke's. Toronto didn't have the talent to make the playoffs last year based on Burke's talent analysis and going with Giggy and the Monster. If Wilson didn't give Reimer a chance, there season would have been a complete write off.

I don't think they have the talent this year to make the team but I think them missing the playoffs will be the perfect opportunity to fire Wilson. Then it conveniently buys Burke 2 more years.
Agreed, the quality of players on the ice far outweighs any decisions being made by a guy on the bench. The Leafs have a poor team, that isn't Ron Wilson's fault. Had he made the playoffs with that pathetic roster he would of been a Jack Adams candidate.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 02:13 PM
  #262
11Goat11
Inside her
 
11Goat11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,762
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I disagree that Burke's devotion to Wilson will be his undoing. Not assembling a quality team is a far bigger problem of Burke's. Toronto didn't have the talent to make the playoffs last year based on Burke's talent analysis and going with Giggy and the Monster. If Wilson didn't give Reimer a chance, there season would have been a complete write off.

I don't think they have the talent this year to make the team but I think them missing the playoffs will be the perfect opportunity to fire Wilson. Then it conveniently buys Burke 2 more years.
I agree with the lack of talent assessment but at the same time he is not utilizing what he has properly. The Leafs have been brutal in their own end the last couple of years and on special teams as well, with different players coming in and out of the lineup. They were also brutal at defending leads, I don't know how many games they were winning and blew it in the third. A lot of this comes down to coaching and I have hard time figuring out what type of system they play. I bet if they played a more conservative, trap system they might have had a chance at making it last year.

11Goat11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 02:24 PM
  #263
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
I agree with the lack of talent assessment but at the same time he is not utilizing what he has properly. The Leafs have been brutal in their own end the last couple of years and on special teams as well, with different players coming in and out of the lineup. They were also brutal at defending leads, I don't know how many games they were winning and blew it in the third. A lot of this comes down to coaching and I have hard time figuring out what type of system they play. I bet if they played a more conservative, trap system they might have had a chance at making it last year.
The Leafs seem to have made a habit of continuing to go for more goals after getting a lead unlike most teams that will strive to play low event (fewer chances for and against) hockey when they've got the advantage. This has tended to inflate their offense at ES at the expense of defense and can often result in blown leads.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 02:30 PM
  #264
11Goat11
Inside her
 
11Goat11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,762
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The Leafs seem to have made a habit of continuing to go for more goals after getting a lead unlike most teams that will strive to play low event (fewer chances for and against) hockey when they've got the advantage. This has tended to inflate their offense at ES at the expense of defense and can often result in blown leads.
Exactly, I know people around here freak out when Martin and the Habs shut it down after being up a goal but this is the reverse of the coin, keep going hard for offense and you give up chances.

Not to keep bashing the Leafs but this is another argument against the best 2nd line debate, Toronto is always looking for offense while neglecting the D. If the Habs top 9 had the same green light they would produce way more but they are committed to D first. That is why Montreal is a lock for the playoffs and Toronto is on the bubble imo.

11Goat11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 02:33 PM
  #265
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The Leafs seem to have made a habit of continuing to go for more goals after getting a lead unlike most teams that will strive to play low event (fewer chances for and against) hockey when they've got the advantage. This has tended to inflate their offense at ES at the expense of defense and can often result in blown leads.
In Wilson's defense, if he doesn't trust his blueline's zone coverage (and that's not an unreasonable opinion to have given his personnel), he may think he needs the scoring and the offensive puck possession more than the low-event. Perhaps a reaction to Burke's emphasis on hitty D-men as opposed to skilled or positionally sound blueliners.

Or he might believe in the "keep going at'em" spiel that other coaches preach to the media but don't practice. That only makes sense though if your expectation is for a positive goal-differential and given the Leafs' talent level that's an iffy proposition against a lot of teams.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 02:35 PM
  #266
Tusk
Registered User
 
Tusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 3,555
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeygeek View Post
I don't want to get into a pissing match on the Habs board but Lupul is generally on pace for 50+ points and 20+ goals which easily slots him into a top 6 role and coming off his first healthy offseason since his blood infection he should be able to live up to that
No problem, I understand, Markov is in the same boat, but Habs fans counting on him is ridiculous, right? Not that you were saying that yourself, but I'm sure you can understand why I would make that comparison.

I'm holding back on the prorated stats generalization too, but it is beyond funny at this point.

Tusk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 02:46 PM
  #267
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
In Wilson's defense, if he doesn't trust his blueline's zone coverage (and that's not an unreasonable opinion to have given his personnel), he may think he needs the scoring and the offensive puck possession more than the low-event. Perhaps a reaction to Burke's emphasis on hitty D-men as opposed to skilled or positionally sound blueliners.

Or he might believe in the "keep going at'em" spiel that other coaches preach to the media but don't practice. That only makes sense though if your expectation is for a positive goal-differential and given the Leafs' talent level that's an iffy proposition against a lot of teams.
Could be more than just the blueline, the forward group has been lacking in what I'd call strong defensive players, especially after they shipped out their collection of decent but not particularly good veterans. The terrible goaltending also skews the situation. In any event I think its fair to say that roster issues have forced a number of devil's choices to the Leafs coaching staff. It seems they've gone with the reversal of the usual tactics a weaker squad employs to become an average to above average offensive team at the expense of team defense.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 02:53 PM
  #268
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
Exactly, I know people around here freak out when Martin and the Habs shut it down after being up a goal but this is the reverse of the coin, keep going hard for offense and you give up chances.

Not to keep bashing the Leafs but this is another argument against the best 2nd line debate, Toronto is always looking for offense while neglecting the D. If the Habs top 9 had the same green light they would produce way more but they are committed to D first. That is why Montreal is a lock for the playoffs and Toronto is on the bubble imo.
The best 2nd line argument is strange, any rational analysis shows that Grabrovski's line was the top unit and should be compared to top units. But if you conceed that its the second line then the first line must be considered to be among the league's worst. In any event, last season Toronto's problem was poor depth and defensive play, not insufficient production from their top forwards.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2011, 03:27 PM
  #269
Ra
satan is my homie
 
Ra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,275
vCash: 500
Toronto over-achieved last year and still finished 10th... Same old, same old, they're bound to make the playoffs eventually but probably not this year.

As for Montreal, they are icing one of their most complete line-up in a long time... Plus Eller will be this year Subban. IMO we have a good possibility to win the division.

Ra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2011, 11:40 PM
  #270
NewHabsEra*
 
NewHabsEra*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,695
vCash: 500
Habs being a contender this year?

I know some people think we lack toughness, a solid top 4 defenseman and an elite center, and they are probably right, but with the add of Markov and Cole to the line-up, Habs just get way better than last year, for the first time in years, we have scoring depth on our 3 first lines, while Cole isnt overly physical, he still is a presence on the ice, a very tough guy to play against, a guy like Blunden or Conboy could eventually bring some real toughness on the fourth line.. We sure lack elite talents up front but unlike Pittsburg that have 2 elite centers and another pretty good one in Stall, they still lack depth badly on their wings.. I think our offense will be dangerous cause our top 9 is entirely filled with quality players, no more "fillers".. If we can avoid major injuries and that a kid like Diaz or Emelin are ready to assume a top 4 role, I think the Habs fans can expect a wonderful season and maybe even more..

NewHabsEra* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2011, 11:57 PM
  #271
Kovatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
I know some people think we lack toughness, a solid top 4 defenseman and an elite center, and they are probably right, but with the add of Markov and Cole to the line-up, Habs just get way better than last year, for the first time in years, we have scoring depth on our 3 first lines, while Cole isnt overly physical, he still is a presence on the ice, a very tough guy to play against, a guy like Blunden or Conboy could eventually bring some real toughness on the fourth line.. We sure lack elite talents up front but unlike Pittsburg that have 2 elite centers and another pretty good one in Stall, they still lack depth badly on their wings.. I think our offense will be dangerous cause our top 9 is entirely filled with quality players, no more "fillers".. If we can avoid major injuries and that a kid like Diaz or Emelin are ready to assume a top 4 role, I think the Habs fans can expect a wonderful season and maybe even more..
Agreed. I also don't think we will need an elite centre if Gomez can give us 55-60 points. If he has a comeback year I think we have a very good chance of winning the division provided that Markov plays a minimum of 65 games.

Kovatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2011, 12:15 AM
  #272
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra View Post
Toronto over-achieved last year and still finished 10th... Same old, same old, they're bound to make the playoffs eventually but probably not this year.

As for Montreal, they are icing one of their most complete line-up in a long time... Plus Eller will be this year Subban. IMO we have a good possibility to win the division.
Huh ?

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2011, 12:20 AM
  #273
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Huh ?
Yeah, 10th wasn't that much of a surprise with their talent level. The main areas they were lucky was they were disgustingly healthy all season and had Reimer's hot streak.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2011, 12:36 AM
  #274
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,855
vCash: 500
Biggest question for TO is this: Is Reimer for real? If he is, they have an outside shot at the playoffs. I personally don't see them in but they could do it.

If Reimer isn't great though, I don't think they really have much of a chance. And if he gets hurt or sucks... forget about the playoffs. I don't think TO would want to give away players to get a short term replacement for him and I think they'd really be in trouble getting in.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-01-2011, 08:27 AM
  #275
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Biggest question for TO is this: Is Reimer for real? If he is, they have an outside shot at the playoffs. I personally don't see them in but they could do it.

If Reimer isn't great though, I don't think they really have much of a chance. And if he gets hurt or sucks... forget about the playoffs. I don't think TO would want to give away players to get a short term replacement for him and I think they'd really be in trouble getting in.
He seems to be a good goalie, but last years success had no expectations on him, this year will be different, and in TO as it is in Montreal, when expectations are high, they are tough to handle...not sure if he can duplicate his success because of the pressure going to be put on him...the Leafs are going in the right direction though, but will not make the playoffs again...Burkie needs to get rid of Wilson...

BLONG7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.