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JVR Signs Contract Extension

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Old
08-30-2011, 12:27 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
29 goals, a CENTER, and had improved immensely that year defensively.

Carter was also signed in the summer with the actual leverage of an offer sheet sitting there -- by his agents' account, they had one in front of them. Leverage JVR had none of right now.

JVR has yet to average 15 minutes a game in the NHL. Lets not compare him to Jeff Carter as a player when he signed his deal, he'd proven a LOT more than JVR has.
None of that changes the fact that he was not a $5 million player when he signed the deal.

He was paid based on what the Flyers thought he would become, same as JvR.

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08-30-2011, 12:29 PM
  #52
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???

I don't get it
Why would anyone sign an unproven player to a 6year 4.25M contract BEFORE he has actually shown that he can put it together over a complete 82 game season?

This is based entirely on assumptions. And as much as we all hope to see JVR turning into a stud, he might end up being another Harnell, which is not bad but definitely not worth >4M a season.

And he would have been a RFA - no need to lock him up just right now....right?


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Old
08-30-2011, 12:35 PM
  #53
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Not sure I completely understand the angst. Flyers view JVR as a blue chip player..similar to Carter and Richards when they made their commitments before completely proving their meddle. When you invest in stock particularly one you consider a blue chip you don't buy it high after the company etc has already proven their earnings potential. Sure JVR might be "overbought" too soon but it's a fair calculated risk IMO. I prefer it over giving the likes of Leighton money they definitely don't deserve especially when you've proven yourself to be a career AHL'er and you just choked in a once in a lifetime opportunity (The Stanley Cup FINALS)

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08-30-2011, 12:42 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
I don't get it
Why would anyone sign an unproven player to a 6year 4.25M contract BEFORE he has actually shown that he can put it together over a complete 82 game season?

This is based entirely on assumptions. And as much as we all hope to see JVR turning into a stud, he might end up being another Harnell, which is not bad but definitely not worth >4M a season.

And he would have been an RFA - no need to lock him up just right now....right?
It's not a difficult argument to make that even if JVR doesnt develop any more from this point forward, 4.25 would be a reasonable price.

Even if he only hits 25g/25a, 4.25m would be the rate for that kind of production. It's a very safe risk for the Flyers to take.

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08-30-2011, 12:46 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
None of that changes the fact that he was not a $5 million player when he signed the deal.

He was paid based on what the Flyers thought he would become, same as JvR.
He also wasn't signed for 6 years. Which matters. He was, however, a notably better player than JVR when he signed that deal, with FAR more leverage to extract a higher contract from the Flyers.

The primary complaint about Holmgren is that he NEVER uses leverage to keep cap hits down, which is why we constantly end up at the top of the cap ceiling with no wiggle room.

This is yet another example of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Not sure I completely understand the angst. Flyers view JVR as a blue chip player..similar to Carter and Richards when they made their commitments before completely proving their meddle. When you invest in stock particularly one you consider a blue chip you don't buy it high after the company etc has already proven their earnings potential. Sure JVR might be "overbought" too soon but it's a fair calculated risk IMO. I prefer it over giving the likes of Leighton money they definitely don't deserve especially when you've proven yourself to be a career AHL'er and you just choked in a once in a lifetime opportunity (The Stanley Cup FINALS)
Both those deals were criticized when they were signed to one degree or another. The Richards deal was also tied to a much bigger picture of them (unwisely) naming him captain and making him the face of the franchise, for better or worse.

Richards was also in the process of blowing up when he signed his deal, and had been very good for much of the proceeding spring offensively.

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08-30-2011, 12:47 PM
  #56
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I don't know about you guys but my pants are getting kinda tight over here.

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08-30-2011, 12:49 PM
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I don't know about you guys but my pants are getting kinda tight over here.
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08-30-2011, 12:50 PM
  #58
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I think you guys are missing something. Paul Holmgren knows JVR isn't a 4.5 million dollar player right now.I think the hope is that for a good portion of this deal he is going to be a 6 million dollar player. He's shown the ability.

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08-30-2011, 12:54 PM
  #59
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Hopefully Holmgren will actually honor a contract now.
Next time I am back in Philly and can see a Flyers-Pens game, I am bringing a "CROSBY IS A MANHOLE INSPECTOR!" sign. Norm FTW.

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08-30-2011, 12:57 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
It's not a difficult argument to make that even if JVR doesnt develop any more from this point forward, 4.25 would be a reasonable price.

Even if he only hits 25g/25a, 4.25m would be the rate for that kind of production. It's a very safe risk for the Flyers to take.
I tentatively agree but still I would have preferred to take the safer route especially since the Flyers are always so tight against the cap.

Most fans seem to very willing to accept long terms and high cap hits when it comes to sign young blue chip players because they hope they may turn into elite players.

Young players always appear on the verge of having a breakout season whereas veteran players always seem to be on their decline - it's just a matter of perception.

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Old
08-30-2011, 12:59 PM
  #61
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This is a pretty risky move, IMO. Homer should've signed him to something similar to Couture's contract ; but if it works out, it can be a steal down the road.

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08-30-2011, 12:59 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
He also wasn't signed for 6 years. Which matters. He was, however, a notably better player than JVR when he signed that deal, with FAR more leverage to extract a higher contract from the Flyers.

The primary complaint about Holmgren is that he NEVER uses leverage to keep cap hits down, which is why we constantly end up at the top of the cap ceiling with no wiggle room.

This is yet another example of that.
If he signed for 6 years it would have been for more than $5 million.

I don't see this as an example of Holmgren failing to use leverage. You're not going to get a young, highly touted player to sign a long deal without paying him a decent amount. This is Holmgren taking a risk that he feels is worth taking to sign a player to a contract he feels the player will outperform.

Its a higher risk than Carter's deal, but its also a higher reward.

If JvR was signed to a 3 year, $3.75m deal and then put up 60 points this year and scored 40 goals the next 2 years he'd be making much more than $4.25m when the time came to give him a new deal.

Even at 4.25, he doesn't need to improve much to be worth that much money. Look at the players around the league that make that much now. How many of them have JvR's skillset?

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08-30-2011, 01:05 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Both those deals were criticized when they were signed to one degree or another. The Richards deal was also tied to a much bigger picture of them (unwisely) naming him captain and making him the face of the franchise, for better or worse.

Richards was also in the process of blowing up when he signed his deal, and had been very good for much of the proceeding spring offensively.
Yes those initial deals were criticised but we still wound up getting fair value..that's kind of my point. At worst with JVR we overshot by a million and maybe a couple of years...again not as bad as the likes of Leighton or Shelley....complete misses!

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08-30-2011, 01:12 PM
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Well hopefully he outperforms that contract

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08-30-2011, 01:26 PM
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Homer could sign Stamkos to a 4 million a year contract for 6 years and people would still find something to pick apart.

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08-30-2011, 01:28 PM
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Homer could sign Stamkos to a 4 million a year contract for 6 years and people would still find something to pick apart.
sure seems like it

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08-30-2011, 01:30 PM
  #67
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Looks to me reason JVR will earn more $$ than Giroux is he gives up UFA when he turns 27 during the extension

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08-30-2011, 01:36 PM
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Looks to me reason JVR will earn more $$ than Giroux is he gives up UFA when he turns 27 during the extension
I'm tired. Good signing.

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08-30-2011, 01:37 PM
  #69
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Yes those initial deals were criticised but we still wound up getting fair value..that's kind of my point. At worst with JVR we overshot by a million and maybe a couple of years...again not as bad as the likes of Leighton or Shelley....complete misses!
Yeah, and then there's Joffrey Lupul -- who JVR is far more comparable to than Richards or Carter.

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08-30-2011, 01:42 PM
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Yeah, and then there's Joffrey Lupul -- who JVR is far more comparable to than Richards or Carter.
LOL..well I think JVR has a bit more JAM than Lupul. Again I don't think it's that bad of a risk and Lupul was overpaid way over the rate of inflation at that time...

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08-30-2011, 01:44 PM
  #71
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LOL..well I think JVR has a bit more JAM than Lupul. Again I don't think it's that bad of a risk and Lupul was overpaid way over the rate of inflation at that time...
Not really, Lupul signed that deal coming off 20-26-46 in 56 games (and he missed those games because Hatcher was a moron). It was, however, a dumb contract to be handing out in the summer to him.

And there isn't much JAM in JVR's game, he's a very soft player.

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08-30-2011, 01:47 PM
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Where are you getting the "he's a really soft player" crap from. Carter was a really soft player (cue the two hits he made all year).

JVR or leino ?

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08-30-2011, 01:50 PM
  #73
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Where are you getting the "he's a really soft player" crap from. Carter was a really soft player (cue the two hits he made all year).

JVR or leino ?
Watching him play. One of the reasons he actually put up some goals in the playoffs was cuz he played with a physical edge and used his size into the middle of the ice... one of the reasons he's been so sporadic is that he spends way too much time trying to dangle around people.

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08-30-2011, 01:53 PM
  #74
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Not really, Lupul signed that deal coming off 20-26-46 in 56 games (and he missed those games because Hatcher was a moron). It was, however, a dumb contract to be handing out in the summer to him.

And there isn't much JAM in JVR's game, he's a very soft player.
So which is it..did he deserve it b/c of his production or didn't he? That contract at the time was def unjustified despite his production IMO..it was way too much above market rate. The fact we had to give up a pick to Anaheim in the Pronger deal to take on that contract pretty much confirms it.

JVR's JAM is still in question but I think Lupul proved his inconsistency a bit more than JVR has. JVR in the playoffs like Giroux the previous year showed some real impressive "breakout" potential against intense competition. He petered out against Boston somewhat but then again the whole team crapped the bed against that team. His commitment in the offseason should bode well but we shall see..a bit too soon to pass judgement.

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08-30-2011, 01:53 PM
  #75
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And there isn't much JAM in JVR's game, he's a very soft player.
Haters gonna (incorrectly) hate....

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