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JVR Signs Contract Extension

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Old
08-30-2011, 01:53 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, and then there's Joffrey Lupul -- who JVR is far more comparable to than Richards or Carter.
I've gotten to the point where I'd much rather have JvR than Carter, and especially Lupul

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08-30-2011, 01:53 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Not really, Lupul signed that deal coming off 20-26-46 in 56 games (and he missed those games because Hatcher was a moron). It was, however, a dumb contract to be handing out in the summer to him.

And there isn't much JAM in JVR's game, he's a very soft player.
Soft players don't drive to the net, or stand in front of it. Which is what JvR started doing and the end of the year, and what made him effective.

Also, Lupul's $4.25m took up more of the cap than JvR's will considering how much the cap has increased, and how much it will likely increase next year. The cap goes up, and so do player's salaries. How many players now make $4m plus? JvR does not have to do much to "earn" his contract. Its the going rate for 50 point forwards.

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08-30-2011, 01:56 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
So which is it..did he deserve it b/c of his production or didn't he? That contract at the time was def unjustified despite his production IMO..it was way too much above market rate. The fact we had to give up a pick to Anaheim in the Pronger deal to take on that contract pretty much confirms it.

JVR's JAM is still in question but I think Lupul proved his inconsistency a bit more than JVR has. JVR in the playoffs like Giroux the previous year showed some real impressive "breakout" potential against intense competition. He petered out against Boston somewhat but then again the whole team crapped the bed against that team. His commitment in the offseason should bode well but we shall see..a bit too soon to pass judgement.
He had 7 goals in 11 games, and 0 assists. Let's stop acting like this was some miraculous run... outside of his one really dominant game, it was what it was. A nice run by a player in the playoffs, which happens every year. Part of the reason it stood out so much is because our team was so banged up that we were struggling left and right.

And you can go to the thread on the Lupul contract. I posted that day that he was going to get traded. That contract was idiotic, but it's QUITE SIMILAR to this deal in many respects... other than the fact that Lupul had proven more at that point in his career.

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08-30-2011, 01:57 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Soft players don't drive to the net, or stand in front of it. Which is what JvR started doing and the end of the year, and what made him effective.

Also, Lupul's $4.25m took up more of the cap than JvR's will considering how much the cap has increased, and how much it will likely increase next year. The cap goes up, and so do player's salaries. How many players now make $4m plus? JvR does not have to do much to "earn" his contract. Its the going rate for 50 point forwards.
OK, so everyone needs to start celebrating Scott Hartnell's contract now.

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08-30-2011, 01:57 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Watching him play. One of the reasons he actually put up some goals in the playoffs was cuz he played with a physical edge and used his size into the middle of the ice... one of the reasons he's been so sporadic is that he spends way too much time trying to dangle around people.
Carter was a really soft player. Also, James van Riemsdyk's extension won't kick in until next year. Did you see some of the contracts this offseason? The whole dynamic of value has been drastically changed. JVR to me has shown enough to me that he is worth the risk. He has performed in the playoffs at a high level and has slowly started to turn it on. James van Riemsdyk will be worth that contract. In 4 years when average players are signing 5 million per deals and All Star James van Riemsdyk is making 4.25 million per bump this thread.

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08-30-2011, 01:58 PM
  #81
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Nice. Time to order that JvR jersey...

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08-30-2011, 01:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
Carter was a really soft player. Also, James van Riemsdyk's extension won't kick in until next year. Did you see some of the contracts this offseason? The whole dynamic of value has been drastically changed. JVR to me has shown enough to me that he is worth the risk. He has performed in the playoffs at a high level and has slowly started to turn it on. James van Riemsdyk will be worth that contract. In 4 years when average players are signing 5 million per deals and All Star James van Riemsdyk is making 4.25 million per bump this thread.
Carter has one of the best wrist shots in the NHL. JVR doesn't. For all his "softness" Carter turned himself into a strong defensive player -- JVR hasn't really done that yet, but also has less asked of him at wing.

JVR likely will be worth the contract... but he isn't worth it today. So, why not get him for a cap hit that's lower now, so that you have more money to spend on other players to improve the team?

Everyone is assuming that he's going to develop into some monster that will be worth vastly more than that... that's the ideal scenario, but far from a certain one.

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08-30-2011, 02:00 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
He had 7 goals in 11 games, and 0 assists. Let's stop acting like this was some miraculous run... outside of his one really dominant game, it was what it was. A nice run by a player in the playoffs, which happens every year. Part of the reason it stood out so much is because our team was so banged up that we were struggling left and right.

And you can go to the thread on the Lupul contract. I posted that day that he was going to get traded. That contract was idiotic, but it's QUITE SIMILAR to this deal in many respects... other than the fact that Lupul had proven more at that point in his career.
I don't think I've ever seen Jeff Carter take over a playoff game the way James van Riemsdyk did in his 2nd YEAR in the NHL.

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08-30-2011, 02:00 PM
  #84
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Nice. Time to order that JvR jersey...
Yeah, zero chance he'll get traded. Just keep him away from alcohol... and women...

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08-30-2011, 02:00 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, zero chance he'll get traded. Just keep him away from alcohol... and women...
Perhaps he can live in Snider's basement.

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08-30-2011, 02:00 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
I don't think I've ever seen Jeff Carter take over a playoff game the way James van Riemsdyk did in his 2nd YEAR in the NHL.
I haven't seen Jeff Carter put up numbers like Pisani did for the Oilers.

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08-30-2011, 02:02 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Carter has one of the best wrist shots in the NHL. JVR doesn't. For all his "softness" Carter turned himself into a strong defensive player -- JVR hasn't really done that yet, but also has less asked of him at wing.

JVR likely will be worth the contract... but he isn't worth it today. So, why not get him for a cap hit that's lower now, so that you have more money to spend on other players to improve the team?

Everyone is assuming that he's going to develop into some monster that will be worth vastly more than that... that's the ideal scenario, but far from a certain one.
Do you expect JVR to sign a low cap hit deal for 6 years? The Flyers control his rights for 7 years now at below 5 million per year. With the way contracts are rising the Flyers got a low cap hit for years to come and JVR has the security a long term deal provides.

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08-30-2011, 02:04 PM
  #88
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It is also a fact that it takes significantly longer for power forwards to develop their game. The fact that JVR is doing it so young is good for the flyers

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08-30-2011, 02:04 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
Do you expect JVR to sign a low cap hit deal for 6 years? The Flyers control his rights for 7 years now at below 5 million per year. With the way contracts are rising the Flyers got a low cap hit for years to come and JVR has the security a long term deal provides.
I think this is the best description of what management and JVR's camp were thinking.

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08-30-2011, 02:06 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
Do you expect JVR to sign a low cap hit deal for 6 years? The Flyers control his rights for 7 years now at below 5 million per year. With the way contracts are rising the Flyers got a low cap hit for years to come and JVR has the security a long term deal provides.
No, I don't.

Why do they NEED to sign him to a 6 year deal? You also have no idea what the salary cap is going to look like after this coming season, BTW.

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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
It is also a fact that it takes significantly longer for power forwards to develop their game. The fact that JVR is doing it so young is good for the flyers
Doing what so young? 20-20-40? He very well may improve, but it isn't like he's been tearing it up. He was a healthy scratch last year for being ineffective.

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08-30-2011, 02:07 PM
  #91
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big time steal in a couple years.... Has potential to be top power forward in the league

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08-30-2011, 02:07 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Carter has one of the best wrist shots in the NHL. JVR doesn't. For all his "softness" Carter turned himself into a strong defensive player -- JVR hasn't really done that yet, but also has less asked of him at wing.

JVR likely will be worth the contract... but he isn't worth it today. So, why not get him for a cap hit that's lower now, so that you have more money to spend on other players to improve the team?

Everyone is assuming that he's going to develop into some monster that will be worth vastly more than that... that's the ideal scenario, but far from a certain one.
JvR's shot isn't far behind Carter's tbh. His problem is that he wasn't shooting as much as Carter and co.

To the bolded, because JvR and his agent wouldn't allow for less money? It's a decision made by 2 parties.

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08-30-2011, 02:07 PM
  #93
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OK, so everyone needs to start celebrating Scott Hartnell's contract now.
I forget saying... Oh wait, I didn't. Try to keep your responses to things I actually say.

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08-30-2011, 02:09 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, I don't.

Why do they NEED to sign him to a 6 year deal? You also have no idea what the salary cap is going to look like after this coming season, BTW.



Doing what so young? 20-20-40? He very well may improve, but it isn't like he's been tearing it up. He was a healthy scratch last year for being ineffective.
What Flyers were you watching last year?

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08-30-2011, 02:09 PM
  #95
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No, I don't.

Why do they NEED to sign him to a 6 year deal? You also have no idea what the salary cap is going to look like after this coming season, BTW.
I don't know why you are getting so defensive, he's got a very valid point. What happens when he only wants to sign a long term contract and doesn't drop his demands. Part of the reason for signing at 4.25 is the fact that he's signed for 6 years. So we essentially have him under contract for another 7 years and a current market cap hit. The potential that he has(should he achieve it) will ensure that contract becomes a great deal.

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08-30-2011, 02:10 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
He had 7 goals in 11 games, and 0 assists. Let's stop acting like this was some miraculous run... outside of his one really dominant game, it was what it was. A nice run by a player in the playoffs, which happens every year. Part of the reason it stood out so much is because our team was so banged up that we were struggling left and right.

And you can go to the thread on the Lupul contract. I posted that day that he was going to get traded. That contract was idiotic, but it's QUITE SIMILAR to this deal in many respects... other than the fact that Lupul had proven more at that point in his career.
Again...despite your use of hyperbole it doesn't change the fact that I never used it myself. Miraculous run? I stated he had an impressive breakout in the playoffs and it wasn't limited to his point production either. Same argument used for Carter when he didn't necessarily produce points in the playoffs and was "frustrated" two games into the Buffalo series. JVR looked pretty confident in his intensity in both series. Again...one playoff series shouldn't be the deciding factor in rewarding him with a lucrative contract but he didn't really get a lucrative contract. He is slightly overpaid..again by 1M and 2 yrs maybe....you can wash that out with unloading dead weight like Shelley and Leighton. I'd rather sink the money into the potential of JVR than have a sunk cost in two jalopy's like Leighton and Shelley.

As far as Lupul..again he proved more that he was a streaky player. He's a nice 20 goal scorer (minus the injuries) but his compensation was def inflated. I'm not so sure that JVR in the long run will cost us an extra pick like Lupul did if we ever do decide to trade him. We shall see. I just can't in good conscience characterize this deal as idiotic by any means...

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08-30-2011, 02:20 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Carter has one of the best wrist shots in the NHL. JVR doesn't. For all his "softness" Carter turned himself into a strong defensive player -- JVR hasn't really done that yet, but also has less asked of him at wing.

JVR likely will be worth the contract... but he isn't worth it today. So, why not get him for a cap hit that's lower now, so that you have more money to spend on other players to improve the team?

Everyone is assuming that he's going to develop into some monster that will be worth vastly more than that... that's the ideal scenario, but far from a certain one.
Welcome to hockey futures?

I agree with you though. This is 100% based off of a combination of one good playoff performance and his potential that he might not even reach. That's extremely pricey. There is 0 evidence showing that he will break out this season. What if the same thing happens next year or he does worse? 30-40 points getting scratched games. Thats not a 4.25 mil player.

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08-30-2011, 02:22 PM
  #98
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Did Pronger not say he expects JVR to be a beast this year, and could soon be a 50 goal scorer....... I guess Homer took his words to heart

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08-30-2011, 02:25 PM
  #99
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Welcome to hockey futures?

I agree with you though. This is 100% based off of a combination of one good playoff performance and his potential that he might not even reach. That's extremely pricey. There is 0 evidence showing that he will break out this season. What if the same thing happens next year or he does worse? 30-40 points getting scratched games. Thats not a 4.25 mil player.
What would you consider "evidence" for a player to be ready to break out?

Given that he hit 40 points, 20 goals and turned his game way up in the playoffs while averaging 14 minutes of ice time during the season, that's the most amount of "evidence" you're going to get. It's never going to be a sure thing, but you can play the odds and assume that in 3 years, he will be a steal for that price.

I mean what evidence of Giroux breaking out did we have?

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08-30-2011, 02:30 PM
  #100
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I forget saying... Oh wait, I didn't. Try to keep your responses to things I actually say.
Did I say that to you specifically? Or is "everyone" a generic statement? Cuz there's no doubt Hartnell's contract has been a travesty for many for years.

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