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Vokoun took less money to play with Capitals because 'I want to enjoy hockey'

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Old
08-30-2011, 04:39 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
please hold your breath on that one.




seriously, the NHLPA and richer teams have all of the leverage.

(its kind of funny you make these "what ifs" about the CBA, which are very VERY unlikely, but jump on people for saying "if pronger is healthy". Even though the latter actually could happen)
If that were true, there would be no cap.

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08-30-2011, 04:56 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Sure that makes sense, but think about risk V reward...

whats the reward of a 1 year 1.5mil vokoun to us? (with no richie/carter)
whats the risk of having boucher instead of any goalie. (pretty fu-king high)

thats all there is to it. You have to take risks in sports to get ahead, but you also have to be careful. Having nothing from being greedy is a lot worse than playing it safe (especially in net)
Why would we have a 1.5 million goalie yet not Richards and Carter? We don't know where the line was drawn between moving them for cap space and moving them to move them. We may have very well kept them if we had gotten a goalie that cheap.

We have Bob.

And there is also risk in giving that much money to Bryz for 9 years.

Risk is risk. You've also got to weigh long term risk versus short term risk.


Last edited by DUHockey9: 08-30-2011 at 08:03 PM.
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08-30-2011, 05:01 PM
  #78
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His agent at the time, Michael Deutsch (Vokoun switched to Octagon’s Allan Walsh late last month) called Capitals General Manager George McPhee the day after free agency opened and said the netminder would take a lesser deal to play in Washington.
Something tells me that Vokoun isn't that thrilled to be in Washington... playing for 1.5M a season.

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08-30-2011, 05:02 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
please hold your breath on that one.




seriously, the NHLPA and richer teams have all of the leverage.

(its kind of funny you make these "what ifs" about the CBA, which are very VERY unlikely, but jump on people for saying "if pronger is healthy". Even though the latter actually could happen)
Remember when there was never going to be a hard salary cap? I do.

It would be easy to lower the ceiling (or slow it's upward movement) and increase revenue sharing. More importantly, the players salary is tied to league revenue more explicitly than the per team salary cap. Players have lost money to the escrow account, making the increasing cap a double edged sword for anyone with an older contract.

Don't assume the players would be entirely against fiscal restructuring just because you don't understand how it all works.

All the players with long-term deals are better off with a frozen cap as of today.

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08-30-2011, 05:59 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Why would we have a 1.5 million goalie yet not Richards and Carter? We don't know where the line was drawn between moving them for cap space and moving them to move them. We may have very well kept them if we had gotten a goalie that cpea.
Thats not true, they were moved because snider/clarke/homer decided roo/jvr were the future of the club, and were concerned richie/carter were partying too hard.

(im saying this in earnest sincerity. It killed me to see those two go, but denying it to the death is a waste of discussion)
also, i know this from pretty much a first hand source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
We have Bob.
true

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
And there is also risk in giving that much money to Bryz for 9 years.

Risk is risk. You've also got to weigh long term risk versus short term risk.


would you rather risk it with bob and our current team, or bryz and our current team?

theres really not THAT much risk with bryz. 9 years is LOOONG ways away from now, so we can see how it develops as it develops. (acting like we cant move him in the future is crazy, there are so many things that can happen in 9 years its not even worth predicting...for all we know he might REQUEST to leave, or just go to russia. Hell, he might even play well for all 9 years!)

on the other hand, we just went into the season with no real #1 goalie, and it didnt work out for us. I for one am sick of risking it.

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08-30-2011, 08:06 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
would you rather risk it with bob and our current team, or bryz and our current team?

theres really not THAT much risk with bryz. 9 years is LOOONG ways away from now, so we can see how it develops as it develops. (acting like we cant move him in the future is crazy, there are so many things that can happen in 9 years its not even worth predicting...for all we know he might REQUEST to leave, or just go to russia. Hell, he might even play well for all 9 years!)

on the other hand, we just went into the season with no real #1 goalie, and it didnt work out for us. I for one am sick of risking it.
You seem to be speaking of risk on the rink. I'm speaking more of a cap risk. There are all sorts of risk, and that's kind of my point. As you alluded to, going with a guy like Boucher all year is a risk (not that that was ever a possibility this year, but just for the sake of an example). Just as signing Bryz to a 9 year deal is a risk; but they are VERY different kinds of risk. One is risking potentially a great team with a mediocre goalie. The other is risking long term cap space.

Which risk(s) is more pressing is really subjective, but my overall point is that risk exists everywhere. Signing Bryz is quite risky as well.

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08-30-2011, 08:34 PM
  #82
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Too much RISK rhetoric...let's talk STRATEGO!


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08-30-2011, 08:42 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Too much RISK rhetoric...let's talk STRATEGO!

Love that game!

I've actually never a lost a game of Stratego. Ever! Yes I'm bragging about a board game. Granted I only ever really played the same 4 or so people my entire life, but still!

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08-30-2011, 09:53 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Love that game!

I've actually never a lost a game of Stratego. Ever! Yes I'm bragging about a board game. Granted I only ever really played the same 4 or so people my entire life, but still!
Ha ha..I hear ya. I loved both Stratego and Risk actually. However, one of my all time favorites was Axis and Allies....in earlier years Payday. Candyland sucked since I am colorblind...kidding!

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08-30-2011, 11:52 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
You seem to be speaking of risk on the rink. I'm speaking more of a cap risk. There are all sorts of risk, and that's kind of my point. As you alluded to, going with a guy like Boucher all year is a risk (not that that was ever a possibility this year, but just for the sake of an example). Just as signing Bryz to a 9 year deal is a risk; but they are VERY different kinds of risk. One is risking potentially a great team with a mediocre goalie. The other is risking long term cap space.

Which risk(s) is more pressing is really subjective, but my overall point is that risk exists everywhere. Signing Bryz is quite risky as well.
I've never argued that there is zero risk with Bryz, but that absolutist argument is pointless, since literally every contract has some risk.
(Just like every player has a risk of getting injured)

To be clear, what I've been saying is:
comparing the risk of losing that cap space
to
the risk of having the goaltending we had this year isnt equal by a looooong shot.

One kills a cup run season.

One could cost us 5 mil almost 10 Years from now
(Or could be dealt with via moves...or may never be an issue and could be GOOD, see Thomas)

That's the difference of a calculated risk that can actually benefit the team,
And a dumb risk which could marginally help the team (or just as easily ruin it)

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08-30-2011, 11:59 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Remember when there was never going to be a hard salary cap? I do.

It would be easy to lower the ceiling (or slow it's upward movement) and increase revenue sharing. More importantly, the players salary is tied to league revenue more explicitly than the per team salary cap. Players have lost money to the escrow account, making the increasing cap a double edged sword for anyone with an older contract.

Don't assume the players would be entirely against fiscal restructuring just because you don't understand how it all works.

All the players with long-term deals are better off with a frozen cap as of today.
Are you holding your breath?

You're basically fearmongering for Y2K.

Good luck with 2012, but ill bet no significant CBA changes happen, and if they do they won't effect existing contracts. (Not that GMs should plan around hypotheticals you invent anyways)

Ill tell you if it's coming though, i bet I hear about it long before you

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08-31-2011, 12:05 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Are you holding your breath?

You're basically fearmongering for Y2K.

Good luck with 2012, but ill bet no significant CBA changes happen, and if they do they won't effect existing contracts. (Not that GMs should plan around hypotheticals you invent anyways)

Ill tell you if it's coming though, i bet I hear about it long before you
Dude, they just invented a phony rule after the Kovalchuk contract as a stop gap.

There are going to be changes. It's just a matter of how deep they cut. And the weaker markets are going to be pushing for changes to the cap formula, while the players kvetch about escrow. Right now the weaker markets are getting financially crushed.

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08-31-2011, 09:32 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Ha ha..I hear ya. I loved both Stratego and Risk actually. However, one of my all time favorites was Axis and Allies....in earlier years Payday. Candyland sucked since I am colorblind...kidding!
I was going to mention that but didn't know how many people would know it. That might be my favorite game. It's Risk on steroids.

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Old
08-31-2011, 10:56 AM
  #89
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Token Philadelphia-based Capitals fan weighing in (with a barrage of quotes and links).

"[...]arguably Washington is one of the top teams in the league, and it even got stronger over the Summer. They signed some great players."
"Playing with star players, I'm used to doing it at the international level, but I've never done it in the NHL. I've played on some good teams but we were never considered a top contender like Washington is now."
"I'm looking forward to the atmosphere in the games. I mean we played, Panthers, in Washington all the time. [...] The fans are, you know, it's sold out. There's waiting list for tickets."
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapa...rt-1-of-3.html

"It's not as drastic as when I got traded from Nashville[...]I'm basically staying in the same division and obviously the same conference. I think it's going to be a little easier."
"I probably know as many people on Washington Capitals as Florida Panthers."
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanthers/

"I had a good offer for a three-year contract from Florida. But I wanted to go to a team where I was to show more interest. In Florida I did not feel it so much. Looking back, I made a mistake. It happened. But at that moment I had other information about me is that other clubs. For me it is absolutely incomprehensible, what happened then. But now I have to go to a good team that can accomplish something."
"You know what, I'm thirty-five years I have slowly behind him 700 games in the NHL. Other keepers have been gone. I'm not complaining. But I was disappointed how the situation evolved. I did not get a single offer. No one! Then at the end came the Detroit and Washington. That was all. "
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl-wp9014

“I didn’t get an guarantees or anything like that and I wouldn’t expect it if I was signing for $5 million. This is a great team with a lot of great players. I think this team is built to win and obviously who ever is playing, it’s up to the coaches and they decide for that particular game who gives the team the best chance to win.”
http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...o-join-winner/

- SkyKerstein: #Caps GMGM says that Vokoun's agent said he wanted to win right now, says his agent said he wanted to come here the last couple of seasons. (July 2 tweet).

Can't find the quotes now, but apparently Colorado had told Vokoun to "hold on" and that "an offer will be coming" on July 1st, only to pull the Varlamov trade shortly afterwards.

It's obvious the market had a large impact on Vokoun's decision, and he wasn't entirely happy with getting only $1.5M. Nobody gave him an offer, then he approached Detroit and Washington. It's unclear whether Detroit gave him an offer or not (seemingly no), but he wasn't guaranteed a starting role in Washington at the time of the contract (though BB basically said he would be afterwards). That being said, he has numerous comments about Washington, specifically, being a team that's contending and a team he's played against frequently. Washington's had a underrated presence with Czech players (Neuvirth and Hamrlik currently, and guys like Fleischmann, Lang, Jagr and Klepis previously), so that may or may not have played a role in Vokoun's decision.

My personal take is that he preferred Washington to Philadelphia, but would have taken a better deal to any number of other teams (contender or otherwise). Philadelphia would have certainly had a shot at him, probably at a lesser rate than Bryzgalov. However, if both Philadelphia and Washington made similar offers, he would have likely selected Washington.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
I'd be very very very surprised. Salaries pretty much always get higher and higher with time.
Jagr was getting paid ~$11M/year before the lockout. Bobby Holik, and his then career high of 29 goals and 65 points, was making $9M/year. The current CBA rolled back salaries on existing contracts by 24% across the board.

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08-31-2011, 11:08 AM
  #90
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^ you appear to be mistaken. The flyers clearly would of had vokoun by waiting and offering him more money. Thats how FA works apparently.

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08-31-2011, 11:23 AM
  #91
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If we had offered Vokoun 4 million, do you think he would have taken that over 1.5 million?

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08-31-2011, 11:32 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If we had offered Vokoun 4 million, do you think he would have taken that over 1.5 million?
What happened to supply and demand?

doesn't Washington push the price up too?

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08-31-2011, 11:42 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If we had offered Vokoun 4 million, do you think he would have taken that over 1.5 million?
If the situation played out like it did, absolutely.

That being said, I don't think anyone reasonably predicted that Vokoun was going to be left waiting on the market like he was. If Bryzgalov is going to open market, who knows how Tampa Bay and Colorado act. Perhaps Colorado guns hard for Bryz, thinking he's still young enough to grow with their core (unlike Vokoun). Or perhaps Yzerman thinks the same thing, rather than going short-term with Roloson. Perhaps then, Roloson goes to Detroit or Phoenix and the market once again shrivels, leaving Vokoun without suitors.
Holmgren not making an early strike to acquire Bryzgalov changes the goalie market. Too many variable to truly know what happens.

But, yes, I do feel Vokoun would have taken a $4M offer by most teams over the $1.5M he settled for. Particularly from a playoff team like Philadelphia.

e; Beef, I miss the Goya.


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08-31-2011, 11:42 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
What happened to supply and demand?

doesn't Washington push the price up too?
Check out their cap situation. They don't push very far. Hell, even a 3 mil offer could have worked.

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09-01-2011, 07:00 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Check out their cap situation. They don't push very far. Hell, even a 3 mil offer could have worked.
While I believe you are in fact correct here, if they really wanted to they could have gone up and used the summer cushion for a while. They would've needed to dump some salary elsewhere on the roster if that had happened though.

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09-07-2011, 10:20 AM
  #96
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Tomas Vokoun says Caps closer to Cup than Detroit

Looks like Detroit also made a similar offer

Quote:
Capitals goalie Tomas Vokoun said that Detroit offered him a deal similar to the one he received from the Capitals, 1 year at $1.5 million.

“Looking at Washington’s lineup compared to Detroit, they are comparable teams,” Vokoun said. “But Detroit in last 10 years won three times Stanley Cup. And Washington never won it. But that’s a lot better challenge for me and the team, to be able to do something special.”


“My belief is this team has a better chance to win than Detroit does. And they showed a lot more interest, so that was the key for me, too.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...pitals-insider

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09-07-2011, 11:18 AM
  #97
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Hmm. Washington has the talent, but they lack the coaching. Adding Vokoun is a huge boost though.

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09-07-2011, 12:37 PM
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Oh ****, you mean there was another team in the bidding for a goaltender. That couldn't of happened though right.

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09-07-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Oh ****, you mean there was another team in the bidding for a goaltender. That couldn't of happened though right.
And he went to the one he felt would be a better contender.

Also, despite another suitor, it also clearly didn't affect price.

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09-07-2011, 12:53 PM
  #100
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Oh my goodness, the unthinkable!

Another team was interested in Vokoun?! But....but....what about supply and demand?!

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