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Whatever happened to Scoring Machine Jordan Staal?

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Old
08-31-2011, 10:48 AM
  #26
Shady Machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Weird thread. Sometimes the pucks just seem to go in for you. Not saying it was all luck (he was obviously playing in a zone all year) but it's just an odd early spurt. A bit of an anomaly for a rookie too, just like somehow only managing 9 assists that year was an anomaly as well.
13 assists. But yeah still an insanely low number compared to his goals.

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08-31-2011, 12:20 PM
  #27
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I think alot of it had to do with numbers being inflated after the lockout.
Gionta-48 goals, then 25 the next year. Cheechoo 56, 37, then he fell off.
Heatley hit 50 the 2 years after the lockout, then hasnt been close since. Lecavalier hit 52 that year as well.

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08-31-2011, 12:59 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheEdge27 View Post
I think alot of it had to do with numbers being inflated after the lockout.
Gionta-48 goals, then 25 the next year. Cheechoo 56, 37, then he fell off.
Heatley hit 50 the 2 years after the lockout, then hasnt been close since. Lecavalier hit 52 that year as well.
Staal dropped 7 goals in production...not 30, or even 20 like some others have.

It's easy to chalk up his drop in production to him not having the same scoring success on the PK, and not playing a top 6 role.

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08-31-2011, 01:01 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TheEdge27 View Post
I think alot of it had to do with numbers being inflated after the lockout.
Gionta-48 goals, then 25 the next year. Cheechoo 56, 37, then he fell off.
Heatley hit 50 the 2 years after the lockout, then hasnt been close since. Lecavalier hit 52 that year as well.
Those are cool stats, but really has nothing to do with Staal's situation.

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08-31-2011, 01:34 PM
  #30
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Im just saying alot of guys dipped after the lockout, and he did change roles, maybe he hits 30 this year because hes back in a top 6 role for an extended period? Who knows

Id be just fine if he hits 22-25 again and is still a shutdown center.

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08-31-2011, 02:18 PM
  #31
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If Staal comes anywhere close to 30 goals this year or next, the chances of resigning him will diminish greatly. Combined with his defensive play that would make him a borderline elite player.

Last year 30 goals would have put him among the top ten centers in the game, and one of those centers was Crosby who only played half a year. If he grows as we hope there will be a line a mile long to offer him far more than we could afford and make him their top line center.

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08-31-2011, 02:47 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
His release is bar none the main factor as to why he can't score in the upper 20's, at least.
I think a lot has to do with his set up too. He's always on top of the goalie. If he would stand about 3 feet out I think he would get more pucks and not be handcuffed by them.

Keslers a player that worked on his release and positioning so Staal getting better at this isn't out of the question.

Lets all be reality though. Having a 25G 50P Selke nom on the third line is pretty darn awesome.

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08-31-2011, 02:48 PM
  #33
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He's a young player that simply hasn't lived up to the expectations and hype of being drafted #2nd overall in front of guys like Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel.

It happens all the time in sports... owners throw a ridiculous amount of money at players who they think have "potential". Some pan out - some don't.

As far as Staal's individual weaknesses... his shot, passing, and skating are all horrendously bad for a player of his pedigree / experience level. He shoots a puck like a girl, which you don't want to see from a guy who is 6'4 220lbs and has over 400 games of NHL hockey under his belt. Staal also doesn't have much of a mean streak for how much of a size advantage he has out there on the ice. Not an agitator like Kesler and certainly not a viable option for playing in front of the net on the PP.

Some problems are easy to fix, but I'm not sure he will ever quite find his offensive game. The key with Staal is learning to be happy with what you got. His potential might be a Mike Fisher type guy and thats it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
No wonder people around here hate on Jordan, if THIS was the expectation. Scoring machine?

Hopefully, one day we'll once again see Jordan Staal in the role he was born to play...checking-line, two-way dominant center.

When he's in that role, we're the best team in the NHL. Hopefully, Sid gets back soon and management wises up and gets back to the three-C model that was so successful in the recent past.
So when Sid/Malkin is carrying our team... we play really well? Wow - what a shocking revelation.

We fared just fine when Staal was out for the first half of the season. I hate folks who try to say there's a coorelation with Staal playing "good third line center hockey" and the team reaching maximum productivity. That is shaky at best... it all comes down to players pulling their weight. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say Staal pulled his weight last year in the Tampa series.

For a player of his ability, it provided a great opportunity to step up... and he folded. Steve freakin Downie outplayed him during that series. I got a ton of respect for Staal, but at his pricy cap hit he is definitely an interchangeable part. We have a ton of capable third line centers who could step up and fill his spot without a significant drop off... plus we would shave off about $3M from our cap number.


Last edited by cassius: 08-31-2011 at 02:57 PM.
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Old
08-31-2011, 02:55 PM
  #34
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And we're off!

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Old
08-31-2011, 03:07 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
And we're off!
Heh, we are, aren't we?

Honestly, Staal is one of those how you frame the question sort of guys, at least thus far in his career. And we have all seen at HF how stats rule the evaluation of a player.

Unfortunately for Staal, the things he does very, very well do not seem to be that valued by a sizable number here. Those include his size, strength, puck control (he is nearly impossible to move from the puck, even when two or three guys are on him), PK, his overall defensive game, his deceptive speed. And offensively he does get himself open, mostly because of some of the qualities listed above, for some very nice shots.

Now for the bad. His shot is head shakingly innacurate for a guy who has all those other skills. How many times have we seen him sail the puck completely off the net? I am not sure that will ever resolve itself. But that brings us to number three.


He is young, still extremely young, and despite what some here have said, his skill tanatalizes as to what could be. And to be honest, the center position is so lacking of upper tier players that Staal with only a moderate increase in scoring would easily step into that group. As I have linked before, 30 goals, 70 points would make you a top ten scorer at center in the league, better than any center on over 2/3 of the teams in the league. And almost none of the others in that group are anywhere close to Staal on the defensive side of the puck. Wings are far more common and 30 goal, 70 point wings are numerous, with over double the number of centers. Which is why you have seen all the ridiculous Staal proposals over the years.


Final point. This debate shows how spoiled we are in Pittsburgh about what most teams deal with at the center position.

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Old
08-31-2011, 03:10 PM
  #36
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And we're off!
Only 2 more months.

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Old
08-31-2011, 03:21 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Only 2 more months.
Yeah, until the REAL Jordan Staal threads start cropping up.

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Old
08-31-2011, 03:24 PM
  #38
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It's tough to add anything original to this debate but the main reasons why I think Staal has alot more to show us is his ability to read the play and be at the right places at the right time and his strength on the puck. He improves his skating, he'll be a very tough opponent. He gets even a mediocre snap shot, he's a 65+ pt center.

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Old
08-31-2011, 03:45 PM
  #39
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His skating is quite good for a guy his size. Do not understand that knock. He needs to make improvement in his shot release, his playmaking, and he could use his body more.

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08-31-2011, 04:22 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
His skating is quite good for a guy his size. Do not understand that knock. He needs to make improvement in his shot release, his playmaking, and he could use his body more.
Yeah his skating isn't a problem, just his balance and shot.. in my opinion.

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08-31-2011, 04:26 PM
  #41
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So this is only like the 5th or 6th Staal debate of the offseason. Thats not too bad.

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08-31-2011, 04:37 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
His skating is quite good for a guy his size. Do not understand that knock. He needs to make improvement in his shot release, his playmaking, and he could use his body more.
I'm not saying his skating is necessarily in need of an improvement as much as his release but I wouldn't mind seeing him develop a quicker first step. It's so important with how good D-men are today. All he needs is that extra split second head start when coming in on goal and he has his size to take care of things from there.

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Old
08-31-2011, 05:19 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
I got a ton of respect for Staal...
I wouldn't want to see what it looks like when you disrespect somebody!

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Old
08-31-2011, 06:22 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
His skating is quite good for a guy his size. Do not understand that knock. He needs to make improvement in his shot release, his playmaking, and he could use his body more.
I think its how his skating looks, he looks like he is gonna fall over any second, but I dont see very many 6'4 220 smooth skaters (Mario?)

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08-31-2011, 06:36 PM
  #45
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3rd line center Staal > 2nd line winger Staal.

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08-31-2011, 06:44 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
3rd line center Staal > 2nd line winger Staal.
Staal with top six linemates > Staal with matt cooke

Not going into how Staal would not be a conventional winger on a line with Geno but I'd much rather have a minor dropoff in production on the third line and have a dynamite 2nd line. We have to see what we have in Staal eventually. I don't see why anyone could have a problem with at least experimenting with it (when Sid's back). I'd like to see if there's untapped offensive potential. Staal may even get a shot with Kuni and Kennedy as 2C to start the season so hopefully he'll change some minds around here.

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Old
08-31-2011, 09:03 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Yeah, until the REAL Jordan Staal threads start cropping up.
Hahaha

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Old
08-31-2011, 09:30 PM
  #48
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I think staal is just awkward on the ice. . .he skates awkwardly, seems clumsy and he has only shown faint glimmers of the finesse he needs to fine tune in order to take his game to the next level. Nothing about his game is smooth the way it is for players who score 60+ points. The puck just rolls off his stick when you want to see him make a nice deke, and it is frustrating. The good news is that we have seen those passes, shots and the skating that are telltale signs of a skill player.

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Old
08-31-2011, 11:57 PM
  #49
Ugene Malkin
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I can see it now.

Kunitz, Staal, Malkin
Neal, Jeffrey, Sullivan
Dupuis, Letestu, Kennedy
Cooke, Adams, Asham

Just to get things cooking

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09-01-2011, 12:29 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
I can see it now.

Kunitz, Staal, Malkin
Neal, Jeffrey, Sullivan
Dupuis, Letestu, Kennedy
Cooke, Adams, Asham

Just to get things cooking
This board's collective head would explode if they ran staalkin with Sid out. Haha. It'd be hilarious if Jeffrey emerges as a top six forward amongst all this negative Sid talk and Geno = God.

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