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Bickell (Hawks) for Boyle

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Old
09-01-2011, 02:08 AM
  #26
RangerFan10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Boyle will most likely be playing on the 4th line this season with Brandon Prust and Mike Rupp. I'm pretty sure that Fedotenko will get the third line wing spot -- to answer your question, no thanks. The Rangers already have a physically gifted winger who doesn't use the assets he was born with to succeed. Bickell is luxury depth, but Boyle is, all-around, a better player than Bickell, high cap hit or not. Moving Boyle for Bickell makes the Rangers a worse team now, and they won't weaken the team for $1.2M in cap space.
I really think overall Boyle is a better player than Fedotenko at this point and has shown that he can play with Stepan and Zuccarello and others in very small sample sizes. I think Boyle-Stepan-Zucc/whoever
Fedotenko-Rupp-Prust is better than wasting Boyle on the 4th line. I understand he'll get his ice time on the PK, but if you get him on the 3rd line which he was pretty much on in terms of even strength ice time last year, I think he can probably do even better than his numbers last year (marginally)

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09-01-2011, 04:12 AM
  #27
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Finally a sensible trade proposal, however this doesn't really work for us

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Old
09-01-2011, 06:39 AM
  #28
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I can't say Boyle is better than Feds yet. Feds has been a consistent solid grinder for most of his career, BB had one possible fluky season. They're both good bottom sixers but let's see how it plays out in camp and the beginning of the season.

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Old
09-01-2011, 08:10 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I really think overall Boyle is a better player than Fedotenko at this point and has shown that he can play with Stepan and Zuccarello and others in very small sample sizes. I think Boyle-Stepan-Zucc/whoever
Fedotenko-Rupp-Prust is better than wasting Boyle on the 4th line. I understand he'll get his ice time on the PK, but if you get him on the 3rd line which he was pretty much on in terms of even strength ice time last year, I think he can probably do even better than his numbers last year (marginally)
Brian Boyle had a strong start last year. However after January 1 (44 games) he had 7 goals and 4 ( yes 4) assists and he didn't score in the playoffs. He's a 4th liner; a defensive player; that's it. Is he offensively retarded like Blair betts? No, but if he scores 10 goals this year I will be shocked. Leave him where he is so he doesn't hurt lines that are expected to score on a regular basis. And he is nowhere near the player Feds is.

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09-01-2011, 11:42 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Brian Boyle had a strong start last year. However after January 1 (44 games) he had 7 goals and 4 ( yes 4) assists and he didn't score in the playoffs. He's a 4th liner; a defensive player; that's it. Is he offensively retarded like Blair betts? No, but if he scores 10 goals this year I will be shocked. Leave him where he is so he doesn't hurt lines that are expected to score on a regular basis. And he is nowhere near the player Feds is.
On the condition he gets 15 minutes a game, I'll take that bet, just as I'm collecting on my Bautista 30 homer bet. His drop off in offensive stats later in the year was not reflective of poor play. I agree he is not top 6, but I'd like to see him on the 3rd line, if they can get him on Stepan's wing. If not, he should be first to get a bump when there's an injury.

Also, as mentioned, he was used increasingly in defensive situations:

Quote:
On the other hand Boyle, who began a team-low 40.3% of his shifts in the offensive zone, finished 46.8% of his shifts in the attacking zone. That suggests Boyle was able to overcome the disadvantage of starting in his own zone and turned it into some offensive zone time on occasion.

Boyle was put in situations far more likely to result in scoring chances against. His ice time was not protected.
Quote link.

This guy is trending up, not down. Maybe he doesn't score 25, but he's an important piece to this team's bottom 6. The fact that he showed he can fill different roles as needed, including scoring, should be viewed as a positive, not a negative because he didn't maintain that pace. He wasn't going to score 40 goals.

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Old
09-01-2011, 11:55 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by freewheeler View Post
On the condition he gets 15 minutes a game, I'll take that bet,.

Thats a pretty huge condition.

And if Brian Boyle is getting 15 minutes a game, this team will be in serious trouble

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09-01-2011, 11:57 AM
  #32
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Edit: Wrong Bickell.. sorry


Last edited by gotmonte: 09-01-2011 at 12:24 PM.
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Old
09-01-2011, 12:08 PM
  #33
freewheeler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats a pretty huge condition.

And if Brian Boyle is getting 15 minutes a game, this team will be in serious trouble
He averaged 15:44/ last year.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...19&view=splits

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Old
09-01-2011, 01:36 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freewheeler View Post
On the condition he gets 15 minutes a game, I'll take that bet, just as I'm collecting on my Bautista 30 homer bet. His drop off in offensive stats later in the year was not reflective of poor play. I agree he is not top 6, but I'd like to see him on the 3rd line, if they can get him on Stepan's wing. If not, he should be first to get a bump when there's an injury.

Also, as mentioned, he was used increasingly in defensive situations:


Quote link.

This guy is trending up, not down. Maybe he doesn't score 25, but he's an important piece to this team's bottom 6. The fact that he showed he can fill different roles as needed, including scoring, should be viewed as a positive, not a negative because he didn't maintain that pace. He wasn't going to score 40 goals.
It just seems odd to me how down this board is on Boyle. I realize that he could be a flash in the pan, but why are we assuming that he is?

21 goals, while starting almost 60% of his shifts in the defensive zone is nothing to sneeze at.

In addition, its not like he scored 21 goals with some ungodly unsustainable shooting percentage, in fact it was only 9.6%.

So I see a player that was working hard and creating chances for himself, despite often playing a defensive role. Maybe he won't score 21 again, I just think that too many are taking "last season could have been a fluke" to a level of "Yup, last season was definitely a fluke"


Last edited by allstar3970: 09-01-2011 at 03:13 PM.
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Old
09-01-2011, 01:42 PM
  #35
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I think Boyle continues to improve. His first season in the AHL he had 31 goals and 62 points. That's not a fluke. He has the offensive ability to go along with his size and the hands are there. For his size he is a great athlete.

He has more room to develop and grow and he is willing to put the work in. I think 40-45 points is well within reach for him if he stays healthy.

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09-01-2011, 01:58 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
It just seems odd to me how down this board is on Boyle. I realize that he could be a flash in the pan, but why are we assuming that he is?

21 goals, while starting almost 60% of his shifts in the offensive zone is nothing to sneeze at.

In addition, its not like he scored 21 goals with some ungodly unsustainable shooting percentage, in fact it was only 9.6%.

So I see a player that was working hard and creating chances for himself, despite often playing a defensive role. Maybe he won't score 21 again, I just think that too many are taking "last season could have been a fluke" to a level of "Yup, last season was definitely a fluke"
Just to clarify, almost 60% in the defensive zone. Also, these are non-neutral zone faceoffs. Still, he was put in less offensive situations than any player on the team. I should think this is relevant when discussing his offensive figures and overall value to the team. It's no coincidence Stepan was Boyle's opposite, i.e., this was engineered by Torts, and a reflection of what he thinks of him.

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Old
09-01-2011, 02:02 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think Boyle continues to improve. His first season in the AHL he had 31 goals and 62 points. That's not a fluke. He has the offensive ability to go along with his size and the hands are there. For his size he is a great athlete.

He has more room to develop and grow and he is willing to put the work in. I think 40-45 points is well within reach for him if he stays healthy.
And something to remember - he was placed on defense by the Kings during critical development years, a failed experiment that was not without its consequences. He is only a few years removed from that. And even if he never touches 45 points, he does a lot of good things on the ice, and does them consistently - the lack of which is what bothers me so much about Wolski.

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Old
09-01-2011, 03:12 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Brian Boyle had a strong start last year. However after January 1 (44 games) he had 7 goals and 4 ( yes 4) assists and he didn't score in the playoffs. He's a 4th liner; a defensive player; that's it. Is he offensively retarded like Blair betts? No, but if he scores 10 goals this year I will be shocked. Leave him where he is so he doesn't hurt lines that are expected to score on a regular basis. And he is nowhere near the player Feds is.
Fedotenko only had 8 points(3 g, 4 a) after January 1 (given, he was hurt for awhile) and 2 assists in the playoffs.

I'm OK with it if you feel that they're equal players, but let's not get carried away, they're pretty much on the same level if anything, and Boyle has upside, much bigger, less injury prone and I'm for one very intrigued to see what he could do on the wing.

If you put Boyle in the same position to succeed you did last season there's no reason he won't match his production. It's not uncommon for bottom 6 players to get hot and cold. We're lucky enough to have guys in our bottom 6 that always bring it on the forecheck and defensively.

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Old
09-01-2011, 03:13 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freewheeler View Post
Just to clarify, almost 60% in the defensive zone. Also, these are non-neutral zone faceoffs. Still, he was put in less offensive situations than any player on the team. I should think this is relevant when discussing his offensive figures and overall value to the team. It's no coincidence Stepan was Boyle's opposite, i.e., this was engineered by Torts, and a reflection of what he thinks of him.
Thanks for the heads up, fixed that in my post, I meant to type defensive.

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Old
09-01-2011, 03:15 PM
  #40
RangerFan10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freewheeler View Post
It's most likely 10-13 even strength minutes, not really that crazy for a 3rd liner by any means.

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Old
09-01-2011, 03:20 PM
  #41
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The Boyle-Prust line will see quite a bit of ice time this season. Torts trusts them, they create energy and chances, and they very rarely get scored on. I would imagine they would be out there practically every shift the new 3rd pairing is out there at least at the beginning of the season.

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Old
09-01-2011, 03:49 PM
  #42
freewheeler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
It's most likely 10-13 even strength minutes, not really that crazy for a 3rd liner by any means.
I agree. I'm saying I'd take a bet that he'd score more than 10 goals in that scenario.

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