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Pre-preseason discussion (Informal Skates, etc) - Kreider Skates w/ Rangers

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Old
09-01-2011, 11:40 PM
  #76
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ahh...The sweet scent of hockey is returining in the air.

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09-02-2011, 12:02 AM
  #77
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a year in juniors gives him quantity. ncaa may give him quality- and thats still open for debate, but its minutes played this guy needs right now.

its my opinion he needs games and lots of em at this point to sharpen some of his game skills. hes got god given size and speed- its the hockey player thing he needs to improve on.

not gonna get back onto the ncaa v the q discussion. my feeling on ncaa hockey are well documented. the q may not turn out the numbers but in this specific case, a year there would do him more good than another year with bc. more games, more minutes, more situational learning.

and lets not forget what team owns his rights.

and the degree thing is cool. im a college grad myself so i understand, and it clearly is important to him and his family that he get his degree, but honestly, hes this close to pro hockey and top coin and he chooses one more year of college?

i could see if he were a guy like hagelin- with out the pure talent. makes sense for him .... but he isnt that player.

does he not speak to mcd or step ? does he not see where those 2 are today.

im still not buying it.
While every player can obviously improve. Kreider is a good two way player. You really need to compare what he was when drafted to what he is now.

He does play in all situations. He's learned how to play the game away from the puck the last two years. He hasn't had the opportunity to be the go-to offensive player at BC. He just hasn't been used that way. Now he will be. He's an upperclassman, he's paid his dues in York's system. He's developed a good two way game. He's going to get a ton of minutes this year.

Obviously we want him to improve on everything, but that's no different from any player. The key here is that he's very motivated and committed and recognizes the things he needs to improve upon. Its those kinds of players that continue to progress.

You didn't say it, but I don't buy the "raw" label on Kreider. When he was drafted, maybe. Not anymore. He isn't all raw ability. The kid put a lot of effort into becoming a good player at both ends. While he isn't going to win any Selke trophies, hes competent enough that he can be used in a variety of roles.

To me raw isa kid who has all the tools and nothing upstairs. Kreider is an intelligent kid. I don't worry about his ability to learn, apply, and adapt.

I just wish the season would start already lol.

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09-02-2011, 03:23 AM
  #78
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http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2011/...oster-released

TOURNAMENT SCHEDULE
Day Date Opponent Location Time TV
Saturday Sept. 10 St. Louis Davids Rink 7 p.m. MSG
Sunday Sept. 11 Dallas Davids Rink 6 p.m. MSG
Tuesday Sept. 13 Carolina Huntington Rink 3:30 p.m. MSG
Wednesday Sept. 14 Placement Game TBD TBD MSG
....i might actually skip the CU vs. CSU game next week. I'm literally that excited.

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09-02-2011, 03:28 AM
  #79
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As well there is an argument that if Kreider played in the Q--that he's so big and strong he'd just run over kids smaller and/or younger than he is. No doubt he'd put up really impressive numbers doing it. In Hockey East he is not really an older player even now entering his junior year. There is more push back from guys who are bigger and stronger than those he would play against in the Q. Often there is more attention to detail as per fundamentals of the game going the college hockey route. Less games--more practice. Coaches especially in stronger college hockey programs often are there for a long long time. York has been with BC for years. Berenson, Parker have been coaching their same team for decades.

Kreider would have got more games in the Q. His stats would probably be a lot better.
The college hockey route was right for him IMO. More than stats he needed to develop an all around game. Coming out of Andover Prep he was behind the eight ball on that in comparison to other players drafted the same year.

As for his going back this year I think most all of us were at least a little disappointed. Yesterday kind of makes up for some of the doubts some of us might have. It's good to hear that he's committed to being a Ranger in the near future. It's good that he wants to get to know his teammates. That he'll take time to explain the thought process behind why he's doing what he's doing.

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09-02-2011, 03:29 AM
  #80
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Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.

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09-02-2011, 03:41 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
Change that to 'your' prospect list. Doubt that he's going to drop very far or at all on the Rangers (the one that really counts) or most Rangers fans prospect rankings.

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09-02-2011, 05:36 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
Lol, you really know nothing about him if you think he lacks heart and desire. And what attitude is it that you don't like, exactly? The attitude that his education is important to him? The attitude that he wants to improve? The attitude that he wants to skate with his future teammates before he goes back to school?

Some of you people are seriously ridiculous. You seem to think that because we drafted him, we have some sort of right to tell him what he should do. Get over yourself.

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Old
09-02-2011, 05:45 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
I would reconsider his desire, heart and commitment. He has proven his desire to win. After being drafted by the Rangers, he won World Junior gold, played on Boston College as a rookie that won the Beanpot Tournament, the Hockey East championship, and the NCAA title,... all in his first year.

This past season he won a bronze medal in his return to the World Juniors. Before the game he called out the team, for not playing "A Man's game" the previous night against Canada. Then went out and scored two goals in the bronze-medal game over an elite Swedish team.

http://video.rangers.nhl.com/videoce...d=765&id=90829


I applaud his commitment to getting an education. Don't let this fool you into thinking he is not commited to this team. His schedule at BC will not allow him to take part at Travers City or Preseason Camp.

http://blueshirtsunited.com/posts/69...h-the-big-boys

According to Ryan McDonagh,.. Kreider has "unbelievable wheels and is scary to play against". But I think what you fail to remember is his size and strength. A few scouts already compare him to Eric Staal. BC's regiment is different from most schools, so don't be disappointed if he doesn't rack up a lot of points. They roll four lines, teach a defensive game and so on. He still has talent, as he has shown in the world tournaments.

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09-02-2011, 05:56 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
This is a very appropos post, coming on the heels of Kreider showing up at informal skating with the Rangers, on his own dime, where Kreider says that he wants to make his future teammates aware of his commitment to them and the Rangers organization.

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09-02-2011, 06:15 AM
  #85
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The Kreider criticism & the unfounded fear of his non comittment to NYR I believe has now been proved being moot. Look fwd to him playing on a new homegrown 3rd line with DStep & Thomas next season. And bringing in a 1st line LW (which maybe Kreider will become down the line --- time will tell...) to fill out the top 9. Things certainly looking good for the future. Move on and discuss other more entertaining things...

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09-02-2011, 06:17 AM
  #86
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I think almost all good prospects, except the Crosby's and co turn pro to fast in hockey.

Probably many times, they have no better options. Sure. But you still play way too many games in the NHL, and don't practise enough, and the step is too big too soon.

All big sports are tough. But like "land hockey" is just as tough as basketball to learn, and with ice hockey you also has skates on your feet. You have not been able to learn everything when you are 18-19 y/o.

Its a big advantage for a few to be able to take big steps fast. That accelerate your development curve. I think a Niklas Bäckström is a good example of that. He was a elite play-maker in the SEL at like the age of 16, and really got to develop that side of his game to the max -- while he wasn't nearly good enough on his skates etc (he barely is right now at the age of 23).

But facts are that Kreiders offensive game just aren't good enough. You get how underdeveloped he is when you look at his stats and consider that he is heads and shoulders above everyone else in terms of skating but also strength to some extent. Staying another year is the best decision he could have made. I definitely think he would have had some bust potential had he turned pro. Or bust potential, like Freddy Sjöström-potential. Now I actually has much higher hopes on him.

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09-02-2011, 06:18 AM
  #87
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The Kreider criticism & the unfounded fear of his non comittment to NYR I believe has now been proved being moot. Look fwd to him playing on a new homegrown 3rd line with DStep & Thomas next season. And bringing in a 1st line LW (which maybe Kreider will become down the line --- time will tell...) to fill out the top 9. Things certainly looking good for the future. Move on and discuss other more entertaining things...
Yes.

At this point, no one can really argue that he is not committed.

To join an INFORMAL skate with a team he won't even be playing for this year, and the fact that he said he wanted to show his commitment, speaks volumes.

Kreider-Stepan-Thomas =

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09-02-2011, 06:49 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
Miller, who the Rangers view as a center moving forward, is going to take Kreider's role on the LW? Makes sense. Well, just about as much sense as accusing a kid like Kreider of having no heart or desire.

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09-02-2011, 07:00 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
could not disagree more with this take. miller has nothing to do with ck.

you are confusing kreiders desire to be ready to play (reasonable) with not wanting to play (silly). big mistake.

this is a thoughtful, reasonable guy were talking about. your take missed completely the essence of this whole discussion.

say what you want about ck's potential as a pro but to doubt his heart, desire and focus is really not fair.

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09-02-2011, 07:04 AM
  #90
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Kreider definitely has heart, size and speed, not sure if the hands are there to keep up though.

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09-02-2011, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
Boy oh boy the only thing that's worse than this post is the fact that despite how much rumor and obviously wrong personal opinion is passed off as fact in it the post still probably doesn't even come close to setting any kind of record in that regard when it comes to kreider and entitled Rangers fans griping about him....or McD before him.

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09-02-2011, 07:22 AM
  #92
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Hate to come totally down on the other side of this discussion and knowing that I am going to be flamed....

But,

I can't believe that many of you would criticize someone for returning to college so he can attain his degree. Kreider is obviously a very intelligent young man who enjoys school, the college experience, and learning. He obviously has "a life of the mind" beyond hockey.

He certainly is a young man who can keep his priorities straight. He knows that the will have a lucrative hockey career that will set him up monetarily for the rest of his life but also knows that he will have a long life after his hockey career ends. Though he has likely thought about the fact that he might be injured and could always go back to get his degree later (hey, my wife got her doctorate well into her 50s), he will only be a young man of college age once. College is not only about preparing for a career but becoming a well-rounded, thinking, and involved individual and citizen.

So, I say, more power to him. So many of you only look at this selfishly: what can and individual who might as well be a stick figure in a video game do to make my life happier.

I am certainly looking forward to the day when Kreider is a Ranger player: I have high hopes for him. But I can certainly wait another year while this intelligent young man, in control of his own destiny, enriches his mind and life. I hate to say it because I am as passionate about hockey as anyone, but it is, after all, only hockey and it is his life.

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09-02-2011, 07:30 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
Quoted for future hilarity.

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09-02-2011, 07:57 AM
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Let the kid get his education... Just cause he wants to have something to show through college, and likes to have his education doesn't mean he doesn't have heart or desire!!!

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09-02-2011, 08:21 AM
  #95
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A few scouts already compare him to Eric Staal.
Definitely faster than Eric Staal, but I wouldn't say it's very likely that he's as good as Staal.

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Kreider definitely has heart, size and speed, not sure if the hands are there to keep up though.
I actually think his hands are underrated. He's not a dangler, but he also doesn't try to be most of the time. He's good at making that one quick move...isn't a puck possession guy but can be good at getting the puck and then moving it...whether by shooting it or making a quick pass, or a quick deke and pass/shot. Just haven't really noticed him having a problem holding onto the puck

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09-02-2011, 08:33 AM
  #96
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Kreider definitely has heart, size and speed, not sure if the hands are there to keep up though.
They are there. He will never be Stepan or Richards like but he is more than capable of turning himself into an Erik Cole or Bill Guerin. His job will never be to distribute the puck, it will be to score and forecheck and cause fits for the opposing defense with his size and speed combination.

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09-02-2011, 09:29 AM
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Yes.

At this point, no one can really argue that he is not committed.

To join an INFORMAL skate with a team he won't even be playing for this year, and the fact that he said he wanted to show his commitment, speaks volumes.

Kreider-Stepan-Thomas =
Cool but Stepan needs to work on his skating to keep up.

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09-02-2011, 09:33 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by richardsequalscup View Post
Personally, I don't care for Kreider's attitude. This is a guy I would be shopping to see what teams would offer. Miller was a draft pick with the intent of filling Kreider's spot. Miller's attitude, hunger and style of play is every thing you want in a prospect. Kreider doesn't have what Miller has. So he skates fast. Big deal. Kreider has top 5, prospect talent. He has bottom 20 prospect heart and desire. Usually, that's a bad combination.

If Kreider doesn't post huge numbers for BC, I'm immediately dropping him out of the top 10 on our prospect list.
I'm saving this in Microsoft Word for the future so that whenever I'm feeling bad, I can look at this for a good laugh and cheer up.

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09-02-2011, 09:42 AM
  #99
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Kreider's hands are fine.

Puck possession isn't really his style. He's a straight forward, north-south player. He likes crashing the net hard. If he has the puck, he's going to the net, if not looking for an open teammate. His passing is very underrated.

His hands are very good where they need to be. Around the net. He's very dangerous around the net.

He's a guy who likes to use his speed to get around defenders, and or get to where he needs to be.

He scores most of his goals around the net. Tips, deflections, stuff ins, quick shots from the low slot, rebounds.

He also has a great shot that he can get off at full speed on the rush.

Just don't categorize or expect him to be a player he isn't. He's not a dominating puck possession guy like Dubinsky. But he isn't a contact-shy sneaky player like Gaborik either.

He has a lot of skill, and he doesn't always depend only on that skill. And he doesn't only always depend on his physical tools either.

He can pull a "highlight reel" move, but he doesn't do it for show like Kovalev or Zherdev (he doesn't have that kind of puck skills anyway) he does it to get where he needs to get: the net.

He isn't a liability. He's turned into a capable two way player. And he isn't a turnover machine, either.

He's a good hockey player.

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09-02-2011, 09:44 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Kreider's hands are fine.

Puck possession isn't really his style. He's a straight forward, north-south player. He likes crashing the net hard. If he has the puck, he's going to the net, if not looking for an open teammate. His passing is very underrated.

His hands are very good where they need to be. Around the net. He's very dangerous around the net.

He's a guy who likes to use his speed to get around defenders, and or get to where he needs to be.

He scores most of his goals around the net. Tips, deflections, stuff ins, quick shots from the low slot, rebounds.

He also has a great shot that he can get off at full speed on the rush.

Just don't categorize or expect him to be a player he isn't. He's not a dominating puck possession guy like Dubinsky. But he isn't a contact-shy sneaky player like Gaborik either.

He has a lot of skill, and he doesn't always depend only on that skill. And he doesn't only always depend on his physical tools either.

He can pull a "highlight reel" move, but he doesn't do it for show like Kovalev or Zherdev (he doesn't have that kind of puck skills anyway) he does it to get where he needs to get: the net.

He isn't a liability. He's turned into a capable two way player. And he isn't a turnover machine, either.

He's a good hockey player.


I'm looking forward to a lot of that on the power play.

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