HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Sports > Baseball
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Baseball MLB, NCAA, International

Jair Jurrjens is MVP material

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-31-2011, 08:04 AM
  #101
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 18,563
vCash: 500
you can't punish an individual for how good his team is. verlander is, undoubtedly, the best player on the tigers. there's an argument to be made for verlander as an mvp. he's not in pedro territory, but there's something there.

robert terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2011, 09:27 AM
  #102
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 30,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
Because he's not, never has been and never will be an MVP type player. The point now is to show how ridiculous this thread is.

That was a joke.

darko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 08:15 PM
  #103
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,189
vCash: 500
no pitcher should be an mvp. not pedro, sure as hell not verlander.

and jurrjens needs to not play hurt, cause that's not working out so well.

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 08:35 PM
  #104
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 18,563
vCash: 500
please explain how pedro martinez wasn't the mvp in either 1999 or 2000. and show your work please.

and if you have time, please explain why a pitcher can't win the mvp.

robert terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 08:36 PM
  #105
Yoshimitsu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 5,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
please explain how pedro martinez wasn't the mvp in either 1999 or 2000.
Didn't pitch for the Braves.

Yoshimitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 08:38 PM
  #106
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 18,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Didn't pitch for the Braves.
true. he certainly wasn't as good as tim hudson, who is just as good as roy halladay dontchaknow.

robert terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 08:41 PM
  #107
Justified
Moderator
Amaro out
 
Justified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 28,868
vCash: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
please explain how pedro martinez wasn't the mvp in either 1999 or 2000. and show your work please.

and if you have time, please explain why a pitcher can't win the mvp.
Whatever year that Pudge won should have been the year he won it, I think Giambi won it the other year and he was a better choice imo.

Justified is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:04 PM
  #108
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 18,563
vCash: 500
2000 he finished fifth behind a group of mashers. he was absolutely filthy that season though:

2000:

217 innings
8.88 k/bb
291 era+
.737 whip
10.1 fwar

1999 was pretty equally ridiculous though

1999:

213.1
8.14 k/bb
243 era+
.923 whip
12.1 fwar

of course, bravesfan doesn't think any pitcher should ever win mvp. but both of these seasons were simply outstanding. he was playing chess and everyone else was playing, like, rock paper scissors.

robert terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:07 PM
  #109
King Forsberg
21 68 88 16 44 28
 
King Forsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,225
vCash: 300
A pitcher should be able to win the MVP but they have to be exceptionally good. Pedro is an example of a pitcher that had a legitimate argument. Verlander shouldn't win it this year. It's arguable whether or not he's even been the best pitcher in the AL let alone best player.

King Forsberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:14 PM
  #110
SFTC Addict
Not Here To Be Liked
 
SFTC Addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 500
Some people take this crap WAY TOO seriously.

SFTC Addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:22 PM
  #111
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 18,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
Some people take this crap WAY TOO seriously.
again with that?

robert terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:26 PM
  #112
SFTC Addict
Not Here To Be Liked
 
SFTC Addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
again with that?
Yeah. Neither you or I have anything to do with the finally tally, no influence at all. no since getting worked up or losing sleep or aggrevated/in a bad mood oover something you can't control. It's not a game, just a silly award we are fretting over.

SFTC Addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:27 PM
  #113
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 18,563
vCash: 500
for a moderator, you sure don't like generating discussion.

sorry i'm irritable. i'm quitting smoking.

and sorry that i like baseball.

robert terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:34 PM
  #114
Better Call Saul
Registered User
 
Better Call Saul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 5,326
vCash: 500
Pedro was so much better than everyone else in 1999 that it's criminal he didn't win the MVP. The second-best AL starter, Mike Mussina, wasn't even half as good by WAR standards. Pedro even put the top position players to shame. What's more, he did it in an era laden with offense.

Better Call Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:36 PM
  #115
BadHammy*
MSL For Hart!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Right Behind Me!
Posts: 10,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
for a moderator, you sure don't like generating discussion.

sorry i'm irritable. i'm quitting smoking.

and sorry that i like baseball.
I'm totally behind you that a really good pitching performance should be worthy of MVP consideration but part of the problem is debate over what really makes a pitcher great, specifically the importance of wins. And it's ok to get worked up over it, just don't stroke out, pal

BadHammy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:45 PM
  #116
Better Call Saul
Registered User
 
Better Call Saul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 5,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHammy View Post
I'm totally behind you that a really good pitching performance should be worthy of MVP consideration but part of the problem is debate over what really makes a pitcher great, specifically the importance of wins. And it's ok to get worked up over it, just don't stroke out, pal
Whether you're a basic or advanced stats fan, Martinez had it all in '99.

For the basic crowd, Pedro won five more games than anyone else in the AL, finishing 23-4. He had a 0.92 WHIP, which annihilated the second-place mark of 1.23. And his 2.07 ERA was - get this - 1.37 better than second-place Mussina's.

For the SABR people, Pedro's K/9 was 13.20. Second place's was 8.44. His K/BB was 8.46. No. 2 was 3.44. FIP: 1.39. Second-best FIP: 3.25.

OK, I officially want to wring the '99 MVP voters' necks. For Martinez to not win MVP that year is one of the great injustices in the history of MLB awards.

Better Call Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:46 PM
  #117
SFTC Addict
Not Here To Be Liked
 
SFTC Addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
for a moderator, you sure don't like generating discussion.

sorry i'm irritable. i'm quitting smoking.

and sorry that i like baseball.
I like Baseball. I just don't think a guy who plays every 5th day deserves an MVP. Nor do i necessarily disagree with the addage of players on winning teams GENERALLY getting the MVP Awards. To my first point, a guy pitching every 5th day and being considered is like really calling a DH a player. I don't mind a DH persay but they do need to institute some kinda rule where the guy has to play xyz amount of games in the field or innings or something. The DH should be more for the disabled. Not so a guy like jim Thome or David Ortiz can carry on their careers because they can't hack it on the field to an efficient amount.

As to why a guy on a Winning team will likely win the MVP it has a lot to do with today's "special coverage" MLB Network for example now puts on a lot of Pennant chase September ball. So we are gunna see the guys in races not guys like Bautista(unless they happen to be the unfortunate opponent for a team in a playoff race)IO can see that being justified in this day and age.

SFTC Addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 09:59 PM
  #118
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 18,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
I like Baseball. I just don't think a guy who plays every 5th day deserves an MVP. Nor do i necessarily disagree with the addage of players on winning teams GENERALLY getting the MVP Awards. To my first point, a guy pitching every 5th day and being considered is like really calling a DH a player. I don't mind a DH persay but they do need to institute some kinda rule where the guy has to play xyz amount of games in the field or innings or something. The DH should be more for the disabled. Not so a guy like jim Thome or David Ortiz can carry on their careers because they can't hack it on the field to an efficient amount.
a dh is a player though. regardless of what kind of ridiculous exclusionary and half-baked rules you want to concoct because you don't like the dh...they're players. they're represented by the pa and get contracts and everything. they have since 1973. know what i don't like? when teams carry 13 man pitching staffs (staves?) to get "matchups" and still don't use their best relief pitcher when it matters. doesn't mean i'm going to think up a rule so that tony larussa can't manage his bullpen like a retard. the dh used to be a place where teams hit an extra average bat. nowadays, it makes a ton of sense to put a guy like jim thome (career obp over .400) there as he ages but is still effective with the bat.

Quote:
As to why a guy on a Winning team will likely win the MVP it has a lot to do with today's "special coverage" MLB Network for example now puts on a lot of Pennant chase September ball. So we are gunna see the guys in races not guys like Bautista(unless they happen to be the unfortunate opponent for a team in a playoff race)IO can see that being justified in this day and age.
this might be the worst thing i've ever read.

you're either saying that

a- the people who vote on the award base their judgments solely on tv appearances and not by, you know, doing research.
b- mlb is synthesizing the mvp vote by only showing teams who have players who should win the award.
c- you don't know what you're saying because this makes no sense.

i agree with you that bautista is going to have tough sledding. i've agreed with you in other threads about this. the difference between you and i is that while i think bautista is going to have a tough time winning, i don't think he should have a hard time because he's the best offensive player in the game right now.

robert terwilliger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-02-2011, 10:00 PM
  #119
BadHammy*
MSL For Hart!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Right Behind Me!
Posts: 10,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
I like Baseball. I just don't think a guy who plays every 5th day deserves an MVP. Nor do i necessarily disagree with the addage of players on winning teams GENERALLY getting the MVP Awards. To my first point, a guy pitching every 5th day and being considered is like really calling a DH a player. I don't mind a DH persay but they do need to institute some kinda rule where the guy has to play xyz amount of games in the field or innings or something. The DH should be more for the disabled. Not so a guy like jim Thome or David Ortiz can carry on their careers because they can't hack it on the field to an efficient amount.

As to why a guy on a Winning team will likely win the MVP it has a lot to do with today's "special coverage" MLB Network for example now puts on a lot of Pennant chase September ball. So we are gunna see the guys in races not guys like Bautista(unless they happen to be the unfortunate opponent for a team in a playoff race)IO can see that being justified in this day and age.
I think you're really underestimating the degree to which it throws off the preparation of opposition in a series. Moreover, Stud SPs can throw on 3 days rest whenever needed and sometimes on just 2 days rest.

BadHammy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2011, 12:10 PM
  #120
Clowe Me
Registered User
 
Clowe Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 530
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 18,075
vCash: 50
Jair Jurrjens was a FA in my Yahoo league.

Clowe Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2011, 12:36 PM
  #121
SFTC Addict
Not Here To Be Liked
 
SFTC Addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Jair Jurrjens was a FA in my Yahoo league.
Hurt.

Season may be done.

SFTC Addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2011, 06:35 PM
  #122
LeBlondeDemon10
10 AM Its Automatic
 
LeBlondeDemon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
you can't punish an individual for how good his team is. verlander is, undoubtedly, the best player on the tigers. there's an argument to be made for verlander as an mvp. he's not in pedro territory, but there's something there.
Without Verlander, the Tigers are 2 games under 500. To me, that's an MVP whether he plays every 5th day or not.

LeBlondeDemon10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2011, 12:35 PM
  #123
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,189
vCash: 500
philly fans are funny. are you all just bitter that you haven't won the division 14 years in a row?

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2011, 12:37 PM
  #124
King Forsberg
21 68 88 16 44 28
 
King Forsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,225
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 81 View Post
philly fans are funny. are you all just bitter that you haven't won the division 14 years in a row?
Are you just bitter because you haven't won a world series in over a decade? Speaking of divisions, when's the last time the Braves won one?

King Forsberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2011, 12:57 PM
  #125
Rhodes 81
grit those teeth
 
Rhodes 81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 12,189
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timonen View Post
Are you just bitter because you haven't won a world series in over a decade? Speaking of divisions, when's the last time the Braves won one?
2005, and there are quite a few teams that would kill to have won a world series as recently as 95.

i just think it's funny that throughout this thread you guys have been actually getting angry over the idea that the braves could have good pitchers, which is pretty funny seeing as we've been the standard for pitching going on two decades now.

Rhodes 81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.