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UFC 134: Silva vs. Okami

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Old
08-30-2011, 03:01 PM
  #401
Avs_19
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Just got back from vacation and watched the PPV last night. Really enjoyed it.

Many of us said it when the fight was first announced and no one can deny it now, Okami had no business being in there with Anderson. He got embarrassed, Forrest Griffin level of embarrassment.

I also loved seeing Big Nog not only win but win by KO. That was great. Schaub deserved that.

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08-30-2011, 03:21 PM
  #402
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Well, overrated or not, Forrest was able to take out both Shogun and Rampage for the belt. Maybe it was a perfect storm of events but given that Silva made him look like a fool, I'd love to see what would happen if Anderson fought one of those other two at LHW.

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08-30-2011, 03:55 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
You already have seen him fight elite LHW talent. Give me a break.

I don't see why he'd fight Jones though, at least not anytime soon. Jones has a lot of guys in the division still to fight. And as he gets older I suspect the cut to 205 will become progressively more difficult. Who knows if he stays there for the duration of his career.

Anderson Silva and GSP on the other hand, have essentially emptied the cupboards in their classes. Anderson will eventually fight a rematch with Sonnen I'm sure. GSP has business with Diaz, and perhaps with Condit or a rematch with Fitch. Otherwise, they're running out of interesting fights.
Forrest is not a bad fighter, but he went in there fighting like an idiot, as far as Irvin goes, please don't tell me he's elite talent.

Anderson would never fight Jones because he WILL lose, he's the best MW in the world no doubt, but the truth is he's one of the biggest middleweights and most of the fights he's been in, he has had the reach and style advantage, the few fights he struggled in, it was always against wrestlers, lucky for him his BJJ is underrated.

Against Jones not only is he up against a huge wrestler, he will also lack the size and reach, he'll surely get thrown around by the bigger man, so his only prayer would be to submit Jones, and I personally don't see that happening.

If Jones goes through Rampage and Rashad, I'm interested in seeing him fight Silva, but I doubt Silva's camp accepts the challenge, it's way too risky for his legacy, specially with a potential embarrassing loss (Like Shogun's), I don't think Anderson want's any of that.

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08-30-2011, 04:14 PM
  #404
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Silva's demolished Irvin, Griffin, Franklin twice, Belfort, and Henderson. Those last two guys were at 185 but have fought much of their career at 205. Its not scientifically perfect, but its also not a bad indication of how he might fair in that division. Does anyone think the fights with Belfort, Franklin, or Henderson play out much different if everyone weighed an extra 20lbs? He's done nothing to indicate he couldn't hang against anyone in that division outside of Jones.

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08-30-2011, 04:42 PM
  #405
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Unless Jonny Bones does dumb shyt like going for spinning elbows or flash kicks EARLY in the fight when Silva is fresh and undamaged to counter.........Anderson Silva has litte chance.

Bones freakish reach and ever improving striking and kicks offers enough protection until figthers will sooner rather than later tangle. Bones then would greco side throw or flip him around worse than Shogun and next thing you know is Anderson's soft shinny perfectly circle head up against the mat is smashed with the most dealy weapons in MMA...the tips of Jonny's powerful and boney elbows crashing down on him without mercy till he taps out like Shogun or the refs gets off him via Matyushenko or Hamil. Fight goes to the ground, it will not be a pretty sight. If the sloppy (zero sub defense) and far less dangerous and smaller Sonen could ground and bound Anderson for 24 mins, it will be a horor story vs Jones.

Best chance for Anderson would be to chatch Jonny doing silly shyt in round 1 or poke and run around the ring and maybe try to tire out Jones (which I doubt will work since I believe fighters will have to tangle sooner or later)


Last edited by 4thliner*: 08-30-2011 at 04:54 PM.
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08-30-2011, 04:45 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by m9 View Post
Silva's demolished Irvin, Griffin, Franklin twice, Belfort, and Henderson. Those last two guys were at 185 but have fought much of their career at 205. Its not scientifically perfect, but its also not a bad indication of how he might fair in that division. Does anyone think the fights with Belfort, Franklin, or Henderson play out much different if everyone weighed an extra 20lbs? He's done nothing to indicate he couldn't hang against anyone in that division outside of Jones.
Please don't list Irvin with those guys, he only beat one solid fighter at 205, the other guys were middleweights when they fought, does the extra weight makes a difference? To some fighters it does, to others it does not, whether it made a difference for the other 3 guys or not is not important, they're great fighters indeed, but Silva did have the size/reach advantage on all 3, not to mention that he did struggle with Hendo, I'd imagine if Hendo was a bigger dude, Silva would have a harder time submitting and controlling him on the ground.

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08-30-2011, 05:42 PM
  #407
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Please don't list Irvin with those guys, he only beat one solid fighter at 205, the other guys were middleweights when they fought, does the extra weight makes a difference? To some fighters it does, to others it does not, whether it made a difference for the other 3 guys or not is not important, they're great fighters indeed, but Silva did have the size/reach advantage on all 3, not to mention that he did struggle with Hendo, I'd imagine if Hendo was a bigger dude, Silva would have a harder time submitting and controlling him on the ground.
I listed Irvin because he's a 205 guy, obviously he's nothing special.

Sure those guys at 205 would be stronger, but so would Silva with 20 extra lbs packed on. My point was he's beaten a bunch of guys with 205 pedigree, including a former UFC champ and a former pride champ.

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08-30-2011, 05:50 PM
  #408
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I think the biggest reason that Silva will probably be an old man and still fighting is that he's got the sharpest mind in MMA. his work on Okami shows just how much more thought he puts into his fighting than anyone else in the sport right now.

It'd make for an intriguing matchup between him and Jones...Jones would definitely need to put lots of early pressure on and try not to allow Silva to get his range and comfort early on and utilize his biggest skill...namely, his unpredictability...to keep Silva from making him eat knuckle early in the 2nd round.

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08-30-2011, 05:58 PM
  #409
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I dont agree that Silva has little/no chance against Jones. I think he would go in as the favourite tbh. Jones is a freak to be sure but he hasnt fought anyone that has anything close to what Anderson Silva has to offer. The guy is a striking savant. I think he could beat half the LHW division with one hand. No joke. He is so elusive and has such good head movement that hardly anyone can hit him. He makes supposed top end mma guys look like fools in the cage.

I would love to see either a Silva-Jones or a Silva-GSP match. None of the three has any competition in their weight classes imo. Silva may have to exorcise the Sonnen demons but that would be about it.

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08-30-2011, 06:05 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont agree that Silva has little/no chance against Jones. I think he would go in as the favourite tbh. Jones is a freak to be sure but he hasnt fought anyone that has anything close to what Anderson Silva has to offer. The guy is a striking savant. I think he could beat half the LHW division with one hand. No joke. He is so elusive and has such good head movement that hardly anyone can hit him. He makes supposed top end mma guys look like fools in the cage.

I would love to see either a Silva-Jones or a Silva-GSP match. None of the three has any competition in their weight classes imo. Silva may have to exorcise the Sonnen demons but that would be about it.
Silva will get Sonnen if Sonnen gets past Stann, I think that's pretty obvious barring other mitigating circumstances.

I agree with you that I don't think that Jones would not be an overwhelming favourite against Silva. Jones would have a size advantage as well as his own striking prowess, but Silva's mind is his biggest asset and nullifies a lot of what just about any fighter in MMA brings.

I actually think it's a close fight, possibly even closer than GSP vs. Silva. GSP is a master gameplanner but his conservative style might backfire badly against a fighter like Silva, whereas Jones' more aggressive and unorthodox approach would give silva more trouble.

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08-30-2011, 10:26 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont agree that Silva has little/no chance against Jones. I think he would go in as the favourite tbh. Jones is a freak to be sure but he hasnt fought anyone that has anything close to what Anderson Silva has to offer. The guy is a striking savant. I think he could beat half the LHW division with one hand. No joke. He is so elusive and has such good head movement that hardly anyone can hit him. He makes supposed top end mma guys look like fools in the cage.

I would love to see either a Silva-Jones or a Silva-GSP match. None of the three has any competition in their weight classes imo. Silva may have to exorcise the Sonnen demons but that would be about it.

Well maybe I should not have said Silva has no chance, but his chances are not good IMO

It is a terrible stylistic match-up. We all can agree that Jones has proven to be a dominant greco wrestler who DOMINATES even top level WRESTLERS (Bader, Hamil, Matyushenko, O'Brien...). Instead of them taking him down, he takes them down and bounds them out. That is a nightmarish match-up for Silva plus the size and reach difference. Jones isn't just a greco guy who keeps you against the cage ala Hendo, he takes you for a ride with amazing greco side throws and suplex etc. He gets everyone to the ground. And once on top he either strangles you out or even worse batters you with the most brutal elbows in MMA.

Also to say that Bones hasn't fought anyone in Silva's league is a disrespect to Shogun in his prime. I know he was coming of knee surgery but he got annihilated. No one in their right mind actually thinks it would be much different even if he wasn't coming off an injury.


Last edited by 4thliner*: 08-30-2011 at 10:33 PM.
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08-30-2011, 10:34 PM
  #412
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Well maybe I should not have said Silva has no chance, but his chances are not good IMO

It is a terrible stylistic match-up. We all can agree that Jones has proven to be a dominant greco wrestler who DOMINATES even top level WRESTLERS (Bader, Hamil, Matyushenko, O'Brien...). Instead of them taking him down, he takes them down and bounds them out. That is a nightmarish match-up for Silva plus the size and reach difference. Jones isn't just a greco guy who keeps you against the cage ala Hendo, he takes you for a ride with amazing greco side throws, tribbing and suplex etc. He gets everyone to the ground. And once on top he either strangles you out or even worse batters you with the most brutal elbows in MMA.

Also to say that Bones hasn't fought anyone in Silva's league is a disrespect to Shogun in his prime. I know he was coming of knee surgery but he got annihilated. No one in their right mind actually thinks it would be much different even if he wasn't coming off an injury.
Bader got beat by an old-man in Tito Ortiz and Shogun is NOT on Silva's level. Period.

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08-30-2011, 10:38 PM
  #413
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Even if he takes him down GSP has not shown much in the way of ground and bound against much much lesser fighters than Anderson and smaller mind you on top of them his last half a dozen fights.

If at least GSP was a killer on top with his ground and bound I would give him a chance. But Anderson being the much bigger of the 2 and him not being able to make Anderson pay immediately for getting taken down, it will wear him out especially if Anderson can get back on his feet unscathed once or twice.
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If the sloppy (zero sub defense) and far less dangerous and smaller Sonen could ground and bound Anderson for 24 mins, it will be a horor story vs Jones.
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Instead of them taking him down, he takes them down and bounds them out.

I feel the need to point out to you that it's called, ground and pound. These guys are fighters, not rapists. Well most aren't.

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08-30-2011, 11:06 PM
  #414
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Jon Jones may not have any real competition at LHW and might walk right through the top guys (Rampage, Rashad, Machida, Hendo, in shape Shogun, etc) but he still has to go out there and do it. There shouldn't be any talk about a "super fight" with Anderson until Jones cleans out the division and he isn't even close to doing that.

I'd love to see Anderson vs GSP but I don't think it will actually happen. Every time the fight is brought up it seems like GSP just ignores the question. Anderson has said a bunch of times that he will fight GSP, has GSP even said it once?

He just says "it's not up to me", or "I need time to get bigger/ready for 185", or "there are still great fights left at WW", or some random crap about his legacy in the WW division, etc.

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08-30-2011, 11:33 PM
  #415
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Jon Jones may not have any real competition at LHW and might walk right through the top guys (Rampage, Rashad, Machida, Hendo, in shape Shogun, etc) but he still has to go out there and do it. There shouldn't be any talk about a "super fight" with Anderson until Jones cleans out the division and he isn't even close to doing that.

I'd love to see Anderson vs GSP but I don't think it will actually happen. Every time the fight is brought up it seems like GSP just ignores the question. Anderson has said a bunch of times that he will fight GSP, has GSP even said it once?

He just says "it's not up to me", or "I need time to get bigger/ready for 185", or "there are still great fights left at WW", or some random crap about his legacy in the WW division, etc.

the biggest problem with a superfight between silva and jones is that jones still has a fair bit of the LHW division to clear out yet before you can really start talking about a champ vs. champ fight. jackson at 135, evans is guaranteed a shot and shogun could make a strong case with another strong showing if he turns around and fights again before or at the end of the year.

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08-30-2011, 11:52 PM
  #416
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I feel the need to point out to you that it's called, ground and pound. These guys are fighters, not rapists. Well most aren't.

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09-01-2011, 06:42 PM
  #417
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Just got around to watching the Palhares-Miller fight. Wow was that entertaining. Sure they were gassed in the third round, but those first two were as good as it gets. I'd like to see Palhares and Belfort matched up, with the winner getting the winner of Stann/Sonnen-Silva. (That's assuming Silva stays at 185, because my preference would be to see him at 205).

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09-01-2011, 09:18 PM
  #418
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Jon Jones may not have any real competition at LHW and might walk right through the top guys (Rampage, Rashad, Machida, Hendo, in shape Shogun, etc) but he still has to go out there and do it. There shouldn't be any talk about a "super fight" with Anderson until Jones cleans out the division and he isn't even close to doing that.

I'd love to see Anderson vs GSP but I don't think it will actually happen. Every time the fight is brought up it seems like GSP just ignores the question. Anderson has said a bunch of times that he will fight GSP, has GSP even said it once?

He just says "it's not up to me", or "I need time to get bigger/ready for 185", or "there are still great fights left at WW", or some random crap about his legacy in the WW division, etc.
for what it's worth, my uncle is best friend with GSP's uncle, and he told him GSP knows the fight will likely happen but he's trying to wait as long as he can so Silva will be in his late 30's and will likely past his prime.

Basicly it's pretty much what everybody has already guessed lol

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09-04-2011, 02:24 AM
  #419
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Forrest is not a bad fighter, but he went in there fighting like an idiot, as far as Irvin goes, please don't tell me he's elite talent.

Anderson would never fight Jones because he WILL lose, he's the best MW in the world no doubt, but the truth is he's one of the biggest middleweights and most of the fights he's been in, he has had the reach and style advantage, the few fights he struggled in, it was always against wrestlers, lucky for him his BJJ is underrated.

Against Jones not only is he up against a huge wrestler, he will also lack the size and reach, he'll surely get thrown around by the bigger man, so his only prayer would be to submit Jones, and I personally don't see that happening.

If Jones goes through Rampage and Rashad, I'm interested in seeing him fight Silva, but I doubt Silva's camp accepts the challenge, it's way too risky for his legacy, specially with a potential embarrassing loss (Like Shogun's), I don't think Anderson want's any of that.
look at the fighters hes lost to, he had a reach/size advantage over them too and he still got submitted so I dont see why u are tryin to downplay his ufc career.Dude is finishing and subbing ppl with ease.Whats okami doin with his size and reach advantage other than grinding out wins and losing to top tier opponents.Kendall grove is another large MW whats he doin with his size/reach advantage? oh thats right hes not even with the ufc anymore

Gee I wonder why these guys arent at the top of the division like anderson if a size/reach advantage gives him such an edge over everyone

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