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[THE INSTIGATOR] Open letter to Geoff Molson

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Old
09-04-2011, 02:32 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I appreciate the effort, but I didn't really find it all that funny.

I much prefer your informative entries, such as the last few you've posted.
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
not funny...
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0/10
Boy are we ever in the serious business at HFBoards!

Smile folks, life is beautiful, I swear.

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09-04-2011, 02:42 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Boy are we ever in the serious business at HFBoards!

Smile folks, life is beautiful, I swear.
Oh don't get me wrong, I appreciate humor in an article. I even appreciate an article that is solely humor based - like a Down Goes Brown entry. Reading your 10 commandments for Jacques Martin, I felt every joke was sort of flat. Just an opinion though, mate. No hard feelings.

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Old
09-04-2011, 04:13 PM
  #153
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I can ONLY see the following players in Montreal that can be built around:

Pacioretty - Eller - Kristo
XXXXX - Leblanc - Palushaj
Conboy - Bournival - Gallagher
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Subban - Weber
Tinordi - Yemelin
XXXXX - Beaulieu

Price
XXXXX

XXXXX = Players we need

So by the looks of it we still need depth on the left wing (scoring wingers with size) and third/fourth line grit, toughness and size to play, fight and add energy.

On defense, we have a great group of young talent in Subban, Weber, Yemelin, Tinordi and Beaulieu but if Mitera does not pan out, we need a defensive defenseman with size, grit and toughness, a player like Phaneuf.
Wow Eller first line Center

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09-04-2011, 04:16 PM
  #154
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Oh don't get me wrong, I appreciate humor in an article. I even appreciate an article that is solely humor based - like a Down Goes Brown entry. Reading your 10 commandments for Jacques Martin, I felt every joke was sort of flat. Just an opinion though, mate. No hard feelings.
Oh absolutely none taken, sorry if it came across the wrong way. The other two left me wondering why they even posted the comments, if we can call them that. No mention, no purpose aside from being negative... unlike yours.

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09-04-2011, 04:52 PM
  #155
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Oh absolutely none taken, sorry if it came across the wrong way. The other two left me wondering why they even posted the comments, if we can call them that. No mention, no purpose aside from being negative... unlike yours.
Everyones a critic, most are bad critics

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09-04-2011, 04:57 PM
  #156
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In the previous 30-40 years the players used to be slower and a lot smaller. The amount of energy absorbed in a single NHL hit has probably increased two-fold within that time span. The enforcers are bigger than ever and stronger than ever. Physical players that fight on a regular basis had to face both those changes and got much stronger impacts to the head than in the past.

I think the general public has no idea of what those impacts really are in reality. Almost every hit that looks common in today's NHL has the potential to be very dangerous for the player's health.
We're not talking about hits, we're talking about fighters, and Joey Kocur, Tony Twist are the hardest punchers to ever play in the NHL. They would still be feared tough guys today.

I don't buy the tough guys today are throwing heavier bombs than probs, kocur, twist, crowder, brown ect. Not by a long shot, so I'll ask again, how many enforcers have killed themselves over the years?

How many people have committed suicide who have never been hit in the head? Depression is a treatable illness, it happens to many young adults. I'm not saying there might not be a link, but the evidence sure seems to indicate that it's unlikely. An investigation is warranted, but jumping to conclusions does no one any good.

Concussions have always happened, not just the last few years. They are better diagnosed than before, players use to call it getting their bell rung, go sit on the bench for a few minutes and be right back at it. The game pace has changed a lot, but this change isn't exclusive to enforcers. Just as many star players are being concussed and to my knowledge none have committed suicide.


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09-04-2011, 05:46 PM
  #157
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We're not talking about hits, we're talking about fighters, and Joey Kocur, Tony Twist are the hardest punchers to ever play in the NHL. They would still be feared tough guys today.

I don't buy the tough guys today are throwing heavier bombs than probs, kocur, twist, crowder, brown ect. Not by a long shot, so I'll ask again, how many enforcers have killed themselves over the years?

How many people have committed suicide who have never been hit in the head? Depression is a treatable illness, it happens to many young adults. I'm not saying there might not be a link, but the evidence sure seems to indicate that it's unlikely. An investigation is warranted, but jumping to conclusions does no one any good.

Concussions have always happened, not just the last few years. They are better diagnosed than before, players use to call it getting their bell rung, go sit on the bench for a few minutes and be right back at it. The game pace has changed a lot, but this change isn't exclusive to enforcers. Just as many star players are being concussed and to my knowledge none have committed suicide.
The enforcers are both taking huge hits and receiving punches to the head. That's my point.

BTW, I'm not jumping to conclusions at all. I know what I'm talking about. You're saying that depression is a treatable illness, ok fine. What about the brain lesions underlying the impairments those players are suffering?

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09-04-2011, 06:19 PM
  #158
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The enforcers are both taking huge hits and receiving punches to the head. That's my point.

BTW, I'm not jumping to conclusions at all. I know what I'm talking about. You're saying that depression is a treatable illness, ok fine. What about the brain lesions underlying the impairments those players are suffering?
My point is 3 fighters have died, one was an accidental overdose of mixing pain killers with alcohol, another suffered from depression since adolescence and the last one Belak, I don't really know. I'm not saying that it may not be related, but the only hockey player I have ever heard of being diagnosed with CTE was Bob Probert and he died from a heart attack.

Sure these guys fight and suffer hits, so do many others. Many suffer hits to the head without ever fighting and many commit suicide without ever taken a blow to the head. There is very little evidence, if any at all, linking these deaths to playing hockey. We might find out later on they all suffered from CTE, but that information hasn't been released to this point, at least, not that I'm aware of. We have around 5 instances over many, many, many years.

You can act like you know what's going on and why this happened, but the truth is, no one really knows what these guys were going through in their personal life or what they went through during their childhood, that could be just as easily responsible for their choices as the blows to the head, probably more so.


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09-04-2011, 07:49 PM
  #159
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I'm starting to give more and more creedance to the copy at factor. Boogards' was accidental but I think this scenario is possible. Rypien has by all accounts suffered from depression, he's been fighting it for years, to him, there is no logical reason for him to feel that way, he had a great life by society's standards, had his teammates and organization support him through his ordeal but he still feels like crap, then he sees the adoration and support that Boogard got when he died.

Nobody ever chastised Boogard, we all displayed sympathy for him, Minnesota and NY both put on big shows of support. Now if you combine that with the way a depressed person feels, all of a sudden, it doesn't make it look like as terrible of an option anymore. All the depressed person sees is Boogard is no longer battling depression and a depressed person sees all the love and adoration he received, you see a positive and it makes you forget the devastation that it would do to your family members.

Then it snowballs with Belak, he ses that someone who has been chastised at times by fans, took his own life and gets love / sympathy too and all of a sudden, he might think it's easier than keeping his secret or that there is no point in coming out and seeking support because it didn't do any good for Rypien.

None of the above might not be true but I think the copy cat factor is real.

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09-04-2011, 10:42 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I'm starting to give more and more creedance to the copy at factor. Boogards' was accidental but I think this scenario is possible. Rypien has by all accounts suffered from , he's been fighting it for years, to him, there is no logical reason for him to feel that way, he had a great life by society's standards, had his teammates and organization support him through his ordeal but he still feels like crap, then he sees the adoration and support that Boogard got when he died.

Nobody ever chastised Boogard, we all displayed sympathy for him, Minnesota and NY both put on big shows of support. Now if you combine that with the way a depressed person feels, all of a sudden, it doesn't make it look like as terrible of an option anymore. All the depressed person sees is Boogard is no longer battling depression and a depressed person sees all the love and adoration he received, you see a positive and it makes you forget the devastation that it would do to your family members.

Then it snowballs with Belak, he ses that someone who has been chastised at times by fans, took his own life and gets love / sympathy too and all of a sudden, he might think it's easier than keeping his secret or that there is no point in coming out and seeking support because it didn't do any good for Rypien.

None of the above might not be true but I think the copy cat factor is real.


I am amazed at the lack of understanding regarding depression.

Depressed people cannot have "a logical reason to feel" the way they do. Depression is not a matter of logical thinking. It is a DISEASE caused by an imbalance in the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain.

You cannot will your way out of depression. Support from friends and family will not change the organic nature of the disease. Yes, it helps to have support from friends and family but the disease is still there.

There is a HUGE stigma associated with depression. Your post (and I dont mean to be negative towards you) illustrates that fact very clearly. "Rypien should have been more logical in his thinking." "He has a great life so he should not be depressed.", etc and so on.

Yet Rick Rypien could not control any of that on his own. There are fantastic drugs that help fight depression. Some cause side effects that lead to people discontinuing their meds. Some people stop taking them for whatever reason.

Please learn a little bit about the disease called depression. It is more than being a little bit down and feeling blue. It is a serious disease.

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Boy are we ever in the serious business at HFBoards!

Smile folks, life is beautiful, I swear.
I found it to be humorous.


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 09-04-2011 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Merged
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09-05-2011, 01:50 AM
  #161
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I am amazed at the lack of understanding regarding depression.

Depressed people cannot have "a logical reason to feel" the way they do. Depression is not a matter of logical thinking. It is a DISEASE caused by an imbalance in the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain.

You cannot will your way out of depression. Support from friends and family will not change the organic nature of the disease. Yes, it helps to have support from friends and family but the disease is still there.

There is a HUGE stigma associated with depression. Your post (and I dont mean to be negative towards you) illustrates that fact very clearly. "Rypien should have been more logical in his thinking." "He has a great life so he should not be depressed.", etc and so on.

Yet Rick Rypien could not control any of that on his own. There are fantastic drugs that help fight depression. Some cause side effects that lead to people discontinuing their meds. Some people stop taking them for whatever reason.

Please learn a little bit about the disease called depression. It is more than being a little bit down and feeling blue. It is a serious disease.
I am even more amazed at people's lack of reading comprehension skills.

Lets take a look at what you said


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Depressed people cannot have "a logical reason to feel" the way they do. Depression is not a matter of logical thinking.
now lets take a look at what I said:

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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Rypien has by all accounts suffered from depression, he's been fighting it for years, to him, there is no logical reason for him to feel that way, he had a great life by society's standards, had his teammates and organization support him through his ordeal but he still feels like crap, then he sees the adoration and support that Boogard got when he died.
I said exactly what you did about depression, that the person suffering from depression isn't having logical feelings.

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There is a HUGE stigma associated with depression. Your post (and I dont mean to be negative towards you) illustrates that fact very clearly. "Rypien should have been more logical in his thinking." "He has a great life so he should not be depressed.", etc and so on.
I never said what you claim I said in quotation mark, its a 100% COMPLETE FABRICATION by you and your lack of reading comprehension skills.





In the future, before you try to rip people apart, why don't you take the time to actually read what people say. Don't be so quick to judge and act all high and mighty.

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09-05-2011, 03:21 AM
  #162
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Yeah you kind of pulled it out of context. I sort of understand with the comma prior to it but you underline the part of the sentence that is after the comma but still part of the same sentence taking it totally out of context. I don't remember if you're the same guy I had an argument about this with a month or two ago but you can't just take something totally out of context and then argue against it and then say the person said that. He did not say what you're implying, regardless I'll chalk it up to misreading it.

That having been said I don't believe the three deaths are related to depression entirely.

For one Boo OD'd on a drug plenty of people OD on unrelated to suicide. Is it really 100% factual that he killed himself outside of accidental death?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/stan...ccidental.html

Just saying..

Ryp I won't argue it was suicide.

Belak has never shown any symptoms of depression, which isn't to say he isn't depressed but the rumors of auto erotic asphyxiation hold a lot more weight than a guy who has always acted like a top 10 happiest guy in the NHL suddenly committing suicide. Again not saying it's fact that he wasn't depressed, just saying 2/3 deaths may have been related to substance abuse, an accident etc.

Furthermore even if all three were suicide like I said copy catting exists as does coincidence. Here's the rule: For 40 years this hasn't happened. Here's the exception: this summer 3 guys died.

People trying to put them all together are grasping at straws until proven otherwise imo.

Now does this mean I'm saying the NHL shouldn't take head shots more seriously, shouldn't abolish/suspend fighting, shouldn't start a program to help ex-NHLers adjust to normal life and/or have some kind of depression program? Not at all. I think these are definitely ideas to be discussed I just feel people are making themselves look stupid using this as the catalyst. It shouldn't be, the NHL probably should have done something sooner and you know what if this is what makes them do it then I don't really care, but don't buy into the hype or I must say you're just an easily influenced person. Ignore the hype surrounding fighting/head shots and just look at what we've been told of the three situations. They can't even remotely conclusively be associated with any of it.


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09-05-2011, 03:50 AM
  #163
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Belak has never shown any symptoms of , which isn't to say he isn't depressed but the rumors of auto erotic asphyxiation hold a lot more weight than a guy who has always acted like a top 10 happiest guy in the NHL suddenly committing suicide.
study psychology some more and you will see that the people who put on the show of being the happiest, they are often the saddest.

its why "fat" people are happy go lucky, its how they cope with being teased. its a defence mechanism.

I'm sorry for bringing freud into this.

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That having been said I don't believe the three deaths are related to depression entirely.

For one Boo OD'd on a drug plenty of people OD on unrelated to suicide. Is it really 100% factual that he killed himself outside of accidental death?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/stan...ccidental.html
again, reading comprehension fail. I never said bood commmitted suicide. The 100% made up comments were not about boog, but about how southern twisted my words.

But you basically proved my point.


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 09-05-2011 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Merged
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09-05-2011, 06:20 AM
  #164
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Thousands of Canadians commit suicide yearly, thousands, every year.

The disease is real, unfathomable by those who don't suffer, people shouldn't underestimate the powers of mental illness.

Of those thousands who die yearly from suicide/deep depression, how many are related to blows to the head? My guess is, barely any.

I think this holds true for the 3 who have died this summer. I'm in support of an investigation to the psychological impacts of being an everyday enforcer, or the impact of playing competitive hockey, period. There needs to be more awareness and programs that closely monitor these potential effects that may put a player at increased risk, to me, that's the best way to deal with the situation.

There is a stigma attached to this illness, much the same way there is to admitting your gay, they fear of what will be thought of them by those who don't understand what they're going through. It's ridiculous, that the society we live in treats people this way, but the stigma is real and unfortunate.


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09-05-2011, 08:46 AM
  #165
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Depression isn't always associated with an encephalopathy (e.g., damage resulting from concussion) or a neurotransmitter imbalance. It isn't always major (clinical) depression. It can be situational, triggered by the death of a loved one, end of a career, lack of recognition for a major effort, divorce, bankruptcy, catastrophe, conviction for a felony, exile, etc. Situational depression can often be remedied or at least moderated by a dose of good news, whereas clinical depression persists despite success, acclaim, wealth, marrriage to a magnificent spouse, le Canadien winning the Stanley Cup, etc. It requires a combination of psychotherapy and the use of psychotropic medications. It may be part of a bipolar disorder (manic-depressive states).

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09-05-2011, 10:08 AM
  #166
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Depression isn't always associated with an encephalopathy (e.g., damage resulting from concussion) or a neurotransmitter imbalance. It isn't always major (clinical) depression. It can be situational, triggered by the death of a loved one, end of a career, lack of recognition for a major effort, divorce, bankruptcy, catastrophe, conviction for a felony, exile, etc. Situational depression can often be remedied or at least moderated by a dose of good news, whereas clinical depression persists despite success, acclaim, wealth, marrriage to a magnificent spouse, le Canadien winning the Stanley Cup, etc. It requires a combination of psychotherapy and the use of psychotropic medications. It may be part of a bipolar disorder (manic-depressive states).
Well-said

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09-05-2011, 11:26 AM
  #167
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Depression isn't always associated with an encephalopathy (e.g., damage resulting from concussion) or a neurotransmitter imbalance. It isn't always major (clinical) depression. It can be situational, triggered by the death of a loved one, end of a career, lack of recognition for a major effort, divorce, bankruptcy, catastrophe, conviction for a felony, exile, etc. Situational depression can often be remedied or at least moderated by a dose of good news, whereas clinical depression persists despite success, acclaim, wealth, marrriage to a magnificent spouse, le Canadien winning the Stanley Cup, etc. It requires a combination of psychotherapy and the use of psychotropic medications. It may be part of a bipolar disorder (manic-depressive states).
You bring up a good point here Teufel. There are so many angles to mental illness, someone can be clinically depressed, or it can be caused by a trigger or life event.

There are far too many factors to draw guaranteed conclusions at this point.

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09-05-2011, 12:12 PM
  #168
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You bring up a good point here Teufel. There are so many angles to mental illness, someone can be clinically depressed, or it can be caused by a trigger or life event.

There are far too many factors to draw guaranteed conclusions at this point.
Exactly my point. While the NHL should investigate and find solutions to help its players, it is in my opinion a coincidence that the last 3 players this summer are tough guys. Way too many factors involved here.

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09-05-2011, 01:13 PM
  #169
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You forgot taking 3 penalties in 1 game a la Poulet and being late for practice a la SK

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09-05-2011, 01:39 PM
  #170
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Exactly my point. While the NHL should investigate and find solutions to help its players, it is in my opinion a coincidence that the last 3 players this summer are tough guys. Way too many factors involved here.
You know what I think is more important than studying the cause at this point. Is reaching out to every current NHLer and making sure they are ok.

The way Belak totally came out of the blue makes me wonder if anyone else is feeling the way he did. I don't want to see it happen to anyone else. Guys need to reach out to their teammates imo.

Just a call to check on each other and let them know that they are looking forward to playing with them this year. That is the kind of thing that can keep a depressed person motivated to keep fighting, knowing that other people value his contributions are important.

I'm totally guessing here but Belak probably felt a void with retiring, even though he had a new job lined up, he's been playing hockey since he was a kid. Its a big void to fill when your in your 30's, when I quit when I was 20, it was easy to find stuff to replace it but now that I'm in my 30's, it isn't easy to find new hobbies or passions in your life.

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09-05-2011, 03:07 PM
  #171
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They do want to be able to not only understand, but relate to the players, to have some sort of connection with them, with the team.


I remember about 40 years ago when I started playing hockey and growing up through the minor hockey systems in Quebec, I had the privilege of being able to associate myself, to relate to players like Yvan Cournoyer, Jacques Lemaire, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, Guy Lafleur, Yvon Lambert and Mario Tremblay amongst others, players who gave me the hope of a dream… If you were to ask the younger ones, they would tell you that they lived similar situations by looking up to Patrick Roy, Guy Carbonneau, Claude Lemieux, Stéphane Richer, Vincent Damphousse, Pierre Turgeon and Eric Desjardins… If those players from my neighbourhood, who speak my language, can make it big, why can’t I dream of doing the same, was I thinking to myself?
Sorry it took me so long to get back but I wanted a chance to fully read your post and I was on the road before with my phone and couldn't really absorb it.


Your insight intrigues me because I grew up in Ontario and I don't fully relate to what you are saying.

I grew up a Montreal fan, all my friends were Toronto fans, so when we'd play street hockey, they'd be Toronto and I'd be Montreal.

The fact that Montreal was french had no bearing on me other than it was annoying to have to watch some games on the french CBC at times. I still grew up dreaming of wanting to be in the NHL and play for Montreal.

So why do you think it is that growing up, it was important for you to feel a connection with the team? Do you think you would have been as big of a fan, if Montreal didn't have a team and everyone there all cheered for someone else very passionately?

I guess, I'm wanting to understand why having the french aspect adds value for you. Whether I was cheering for Steve Penny or Patrick Roy. lol as I was researching this, I just found out Penny was a francophone, I assumed he was english. I was going to say, it didn't matter to me, if they were french or english, I loved them just the same.

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09-05-2011, 05:06 PM
  #172
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Sorry it took me so long to get back but I wanted a chance to fully read your post and I was on the road before with my phone and couldn't really absorb it.

Your insight intrigues me because I grew up in Ontario and I don't fully relate to what you are saying.

I grew up a Montreal fan, all my friends were Toronto fans, so when we'd play street hockey, they'd be Toronto and I'd be Montreal.

The fact that Montreal was french had no bearing on me other than it was annoying to have to watch some games on the french CBC at times. I still grew up dreaming of wanting to be in the NHL and play for Montreal.

So why do you think it is that growing up, it was important for you to feel a connection with the team? Do you think you would have been as big of a fan, if Montreal didn't have a team and everyone there all cheered for someone else very passionately?

I guess, I'm wanting to understand why having the french aspect adds value for you. Whether I was cheering for Steve Penny or Patrick Roy. lol as I was researching this, I just found out Penny was a francophone, I assumed he was english. I was going to say, it didn't matter to me, if they were french or english, I loved them just the same.
Fair question. As a youngster from Quebec growing up, we didn't speak English. As a matter of fact, English wasn't on the curriculum until Grade 9 (secondaire 3)!

So growing up watching the Canadiens, there was a feeling of attachment being able to understand those players when they gave interviews, when we were fortunate enough to meet them, whether it was at the Forum or during the summer at ball games or other events.

There was a sense of being able to relate, a feeling that was even stronger than with the other players who didn't speak the language but who we also idolized.

For example, I was a huge Ken Dryden fan. He had the decency of learning French (and so did Gainey and Robinson) so I could understand him through his accent. However, when Guy Lafleur was talking, the world stopped around us, around me, just to listen to what he had to say. Same thing for Lapointe, Lemaire, Savard and company.

I don't know how to explain it... it's more a feeling of belonging, thinking that this guy is like me! And look where he is: playing for the Montreal Canadiens (lucky guy)! Maybe I csn do it too one day!?!

Now I know that anytime someone brings language into a discussion, it turns the wrong way, with comments like they prefer having a winner without local players than loosing with them, bla-bla-bla. Those are legitimate comments as most people would agree, including myself. Often, it unfortunately turns to separatists debates, unfortunately. But if you're asking about the importance of the language and why this feeling, it's difficult to describe.

Why are native Indians so proud of their culture? Why are French Canadians the same in that aspect? I'm thinking that it's a fear to loose that heritage being a minority in a vast environment which is different from you, from your culture. It's something that you don't have (or not as strong) elsewhere in North America.

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09-05-2011, 06:29 PM
  #173
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post

In the future, before you try to rip people apart, why don't you take the time to actually read what people say. Don't be so quick to judge and act all high and mighty.
I wasnt ripping you apart.

The way you structured your sentence.......ah hell, nevermind.

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09-05-2011, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Fair question. As a youngster from Quebec growing up, we didn't speak English. As a matter of fact, English wasn't on the curriculum until Grade 9 (secondaire 3)!

So growing up watching the Canadiens, there was a feeling of attachment being able to understand those players when they gave interviews, when we were fortunate enough to meet them, whether it was at the Forum or during the summer at ball games or other events.

There was a sense of being able to relate, a feeling that was even stronger than with the other players who didn't speak the language but who we also idolized.

For example, I was a huge Ken Dryden fan. He had the decency of learning French (and so did Gainey and Robinson) so I could understand him through his accent. However, when Guy Lafleur was talking, the world stopped around us, around me, just to listen to what he had to say. Same thing for Lapointe, Lemaire, Savard and company.

I don't know how to explain it... it's more a feeling of belonging, thinking that this guy is like me! And look where he is: playing for the Montreal Canadiens (lucky guy)! Maybe I csn do it too one day!?!

Now I know that anytime someone brings language into a discussion, it turns the wrong way, with comments like they prefer having a winner without local players than loosing with them, bla-bla-bla. Those are legitimate comments as most people would agree, including myself. Often, it unfortunately turns to separatists debates, unfortunately. But if you're asking about the importance of the language and why this feeling, it's difficult to describe.

Why are native Indians so proud of their culture? Why are French Canadians the same in that aspect? I'm thinking that it's a fear to loose that heritage being a minority in a vast environment which is different from you, from your culture. It's something that you don't have (or not as strong) elsewhere in North America.
You miss a critical point. The French settlers in North America (and the "Indians," or native Americans) weren't just outnumbered by colonists coming from different cultures, they were humbled by military force and their English conquerors (abetted by mercenaries) inflicted a forced inferiority upon them. The same thing happened to the Irish. Their neighbor to the south, whom we call "Americans," with their French allies, defeated the English and their paid Scottish, irish, and Germans and established their own culture and political system. (Lafayette, unlike Montcalm, was on the winning side.) George Washington refused to be coronated "King George." They established a government with three branches: executive, legislative, and judicial. They didn't name their athletic trophies after a "Lord Stanley." They adopted the English language but modified the pronunciation, spelling, and grammar. Had the Americans lost, they would have licked their wounds but they probably would have had a second go at the Crown at some point in the 19th century. In fact, they did in the so-called War of 1812. Had their invasion of Canada been successful Canada and the United States might have become one nation. In that case there would have been no autonomy for Québec, judging by how the Union crushed the Confederacy in the Civil War.

Ah, too much history, too much speculation, I can't go on. I attended American universities and I remain in the US. Sometimes I wonder if the US is succumbing to a new tyranny of religious fanaticism.

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09-05-2011, 08:46 PM
  #175
Habsterix*
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
You miss a critical point. The French settlers in North America weren't just outnumbered by colonists coming from different cultures, they were humbled by military force and their English conquerors (abetted by mercenaries) inflicted a forced inferiority upon them. The same thing happened to the Irish. Their neighbor to the south, whom we call "Americans," with their French allies, defeated the English and their paid Scottish, irish, and Germans and established their own culture and political system. (Lafayette, unlike Montcalm, was on the winning side.) George Washington refused to be coronated "King George." They established a government with three branches: executive, legislative, and judicial. They didn't name their athletic trophies after a "Lord Stanley." They adopted the English language but modified the pronunciation, spelling, and grammar. Had the Americans lost, they would have licked their wounds but they probably would have had a second go at the Crown at some point in the 19th century. In fact, they did in the so-called War of 1812. Had their invasion of Canada been successful Canada and the United States might have become one nation. In that case there would have been no autonomy for Québec, judging by how the Union crushed the Confederacy in the Civil War.

Ah, too much history, too much speculation, I can't go on. I attended American universities and I remain in the US. Sometimes I wonder if the US is succumbing to a new tyranny of religious fanaticism.
Hey, I wasn't giving a history lesson here, far from that. What my great-great-great-great granpa did and how he felt, I'm not sure. I can only speak for myself and that's the question I was answering.

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