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Are we ruining Ryan White asking him to drop them ?

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Old
09-05-2011, 03:36 PM
  #1
vinzlol
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Are we ruining Ryan White asking him to drop them ?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...79/1/index.htm

I read this article this morning, and I came to realize that Ryan White's position in the Canadiens lineup is bad.

Let's not kid ourselves. He's expected to stick up for his teamates. He's not even that big of a player, neither is he a good fighter. He's just gritty and willing, and he's being turned into a goon.

The kid put up amazing points in his junior career. After like 40 NHL games, he's already classified as a semi-goon by most people.

He averaged around 3 mins TOI during Game 6 and Game 7 against the Bruins.

^How do you think that feel for a young player still being developped ?

You know White is bound to be "forced" to drop the gloves a few times during pre-season to solidify his spot in the roster.

I, for one, hope he doesn't.

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09-05-2011, 03:38 PM
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I don't think White is forced to do anything. He provides energy and grit on his line even when he's not dropping them. I doubt he says to himself "oh no someone just tried to take out Subban's knee, I really don't want to fight them even though Subban is a friend and team mate".

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09-05-2011, 03:43 PM
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Amputechture
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A lot of players put up solid stats in junior and not in the pros. Sometimes a player needs to modify their game to fit a role for a team. I see White as a player that is willing to do that. White is never going to be a top 6 forward for us, so he's developing into a gritty bottom 6 guy. I see nothing wrong with that.

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09-05-2011, 03:47 PM
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MathMan
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Lemme copy-paste what I wrote to a similar question on Habs Eyes on the Prize :

"I think you’re misinterpreting White’s role on the team. He is not there primarily to provide “energy”, to “stand up for his teammates”, to fight or to hit guys. He may provide all of this and some of these things certainly have real value, but the real reason White is on the Habs’ roster is because he has the ability to outplay opposing fourth liners.

Ryan White had an offensive zone start of 44.2% and positive Corsi (and impressively, an offensive zone end above 50% — notable for a guy who starts in the defensive zone so much). He only played against fourth-line opposition, true. He maybe can’t handle strong opposition, but against the bottom of opposing rosters, he helps push the puck in the right direction. And while that’s not something that will make him a star, it’s something that has nontrivial value to a hockey club."

Jacques Martin is a canny coach; he recognizes the importance of outplaying the other guys, and the lack of importance of dropping the gloves. He's not going to turn a useful hockey player into a goon.

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09-05-2011, 03:48 PM
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He doesn't have what it takes to be anything else. I see Gallagher in a similar position.. maybe Galls is a bit more talented, but this is the role he has to take on if he wants to hold onto a spot on the roster. He's not bad defensively, plays the system and willing to stand up for his teammates while chipping in a couple of points. Can't ask for any more from him.

White's not a goon. He plays a blue-collar style, but he doesn't get on the ice just to fight.

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09-05-2011, 03:51 PM
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vinzlol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Lemme copy-paste what I wrote to a similar question on Habs Eyes on the Prize :

"I think you’re misinterpreting White’s role on the team. He is not there primarily to provide “energy”, to “stand up for his teammates”, to fight or to hit guys. He may provide all of this and some of these things certainly have real value, but the real reason White is on the Habs’ roster is because he has the ability to outplay opposing fourth liners.

Ryan White had an offensive zone start of 44.2% and positive Corsi (and impressively, an offensive zone end above 50% — notable for a guy who starts in the defensive zone so much). He only played against fourth-line opposition, true. He maybe can’t handle strong opposition, but against the bottom of opposing rosters, he helps push the puck in the right direction. And while that’s not something that will make him a star, it’s something that has nontrivial value to a hockey club."

Jacques Martin is a canny coach; he recognizes the importance of outplaying the other guys, and the lack of importance of dropping the gloves. He's not going to turn a useful hockey player into a goon.
Great post.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I was afraid most believed he was there to be a goon.

It's good to hear you all have intelligent insights on the kid.

Will White still be considered a rookie next season ?

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09-05-2011, 03:57 PM
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umm no

White is far from being turned into a goon. Provides energy on a 4th line and will stand up for teammates when necessary.

And with Martin behind the bench, he will not develop him to be pigeon-holed into that role.

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09-05-2011, 04:08 PM
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Pretty sure he does it out of choice not out of being forced to.

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09-05-2011, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
He doesn't have what it takes to be anything else. I see Gallagher in a similar position.. maybe Galls is a bit more talented, but this is the role he has to take on if he wants to hold onto a spot on the roster. He's not bad defensively, plays the system and willing to stand up for his teammates while chipping in a couple of points. Can't ask for any more from him.

White's not a goon. He plays a blue-collar style, but he doesn't get on the ice just to fight.
Yeah Gallagher has to fight...

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09-05-2011, 04:21 PM
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Well let just say this that way....we may not FORCE him to drop the gloves...but White looks around and might get the message he just HAS to drop them....By having the type of team we have, both Moen and White will drop them even if they don't want to. That's kinda of forcing them.....without saying it.

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09-05-2011, 04:24 PM
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White's not a good fighter? He's no Rick Rypien, but he can throw them. Conboy is the one we need to worry about biting off more than he can chew.

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09-05-2011, 04:31 PM
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White is a damn good fighter, he just dosn't have the size to take on the bigger fighters and i don't think he feels forced to drop 'em he's just a good team player who takes pride in sticking up for his teammates

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09-05-2011, 04:42 PM
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For his size White actually is a good fighter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well let just say this that way....we may not FORCE him to drop the gloves...but White looks around and might get the message he just HAS to drop them....By having the type of team we have, both Moen and White will drop them even if they don't want to. That's kinda of forcing them.....without saying it.
I disagree. If you how much Laraque changed the dynamic of this team you'd realize that would still be the case with or without an enforcer. (He didn't change the dynamic at all)

Nobody is going to fight a goon or even a skilled heavyweight unless they are at least a heavyweight themselves and it isn't necessarily going to stop them from cheapshotting your players. Some guys are just cheap shot artists.

I will admit to some extent it will make smaller guys like Marchand too ***** to play that kind of style but the Lucic's and others of the game will always do that, and frankly with them backing up guys like Marchand I think the difference is barely worth mentioning. Like you and a lot of people already mentioned many times you need tough guys who can play to change the dynamic of your team and it doesn't happen over night and it takes more than one. Who are we going to drop? Gomez for Kesler? Okay. Cammy for Lucic? What a lot of people don't seem to realize is most teams have their strong points and weaknesses but that doesn't mean we're a bad team. We cater to a style more relevant to the players we have and we have a good mix of guys who can play good both ways. You can't have a team filled with Crosby's, Lucic, Lidstrom, Weber. Only 2-3 teams in the whole league have such balanced teams, we do a damn good job of being a balanced team. Moen and White are guys who can play who are tough. Emelin apparently is too. Tinordi/Beaulieu down the road could be too.

People act like it isn't being addressed or that we're such a ***** team. We aren't.


Last edited by neofury*: 09-05-2011 at 04:48 PM.
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09-05-2011, 04:47 PM
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I didn't mean to insult him saying he wasn't a "good" fighter; if anything I meant to say that I can't help but be anxious he's going to get his ass handed to him when he drops them... How many times have we seen the poor guy smile after eating a few solid punches ?

You don't want him to get hurt because of it, ugh.

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09-05-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinzlol View Post
You know White is bound to be "forced" to drop the gloves a few times during pre-season to solidify his spot in the roster.

I, for one, hope he doesn't.

Or he can earn a spot like other non goons by showing that he can play hockey effectively. Only he can choose to drop the gloves, Maxim Lapierre is an example of a player who chose not to drop the gloves and still made the NHL.

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09-05-2011, 04:50 PM
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If White can improve defensively and on face offs he's looking like a Mike Keane type of player. He won't beat heavyweights but he'll still be hard to play against.

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09-05-2011, 05:09 PM
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He is a good fighter IMO he has destroyed bigger guys like Boychuk and he held his own against Stoner.

IMO he will project has a Greg Campbell kind of guy. He seem to have more strenght and to hit more though. I really like what he bring to a team he can be a kind of Moen also, a guy that can play good hockey and add toughness.

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09-05-2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Are we ruining Ryan White asking him to drop them ?
No. You don't ruin players by asking them to drop the gloves. You ruin them by not surrounding them better with a heavyweight and others who can also drop the gloves though.

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09-05-2011, 05:37 PM
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Dont know whats the big deal with Ryan White.. He is a decent fourth liner, nothing more.. The kid has to find ways to stay in the line-up, sticking for his teammates is one of them..


Last edited by NewHabsEra*: 09-06-2011 at 04:09 PM.
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09-05-2011, 05:44 PM
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One of the most important thing to a fighter is the ability to take a punch and keep his ground. We saw in his fight against Stoner of the Minnesota Wild, that he can take a few good, hard knocks before delivering a few blows of his own.

As for forcing him to fight... Take a look at the smile on his face, as he sits on the bench after a scrap. How he talks with the guy he just fought and even gives a thumbs up. Also, most of the time that he's fought, it's been because of what took place on the ice; Boychuk hit on Subban, Stoner going after him because of White throwing a few good hits.

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09-05-2011, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
No. You don't ruin players by asking them to drop the gloves. You ruin them by not surrounding them better with a heavyweight and others who can also drop the gloves though.
Ruin them how, exactly?

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09-05-2011, 05:53 PM
  #22
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Ryan White loves his role on the team...the guy is beaming after a fight, or when the team scores...he will be appreciated by his team mates this year! If he puts a little beef on, he could be as good as Chris Neil...

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09-05-2011, 05:57 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinzlol View Post
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...79/1/index.htm

I read this article this morning, and I came to realize that Ryan White's position in the Canadiens lineup is bad.

Let's not kid ourselves. He's expected to stick up for his teamates. He's not even that big of a player, neither is he a good fighter. He's just gritty and willing, and he's being turned into a goon.

The kid put up amazing points in his junior career. After like 40 NHL games, he's already classified as a semi-goon by most people.

He averaged around 3 mins TOI during Game 6 and Game 7 against the Bruins.

^How do you think that feel for a young player still being developped ?

You know White is bound to be "forced" to drop the gloves a few times during pre-season to solidify his spot in the roster.

I, for one, hope he doesn't.
Why were you reading a 1997 SI article?

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09-05-2011, 06:10 PM
  #24
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A 4th liner that has about 10 goals a season, big hits, brings energy, solid pk play and close to 15 fights a season is what championship teams are made of, and that's exactly the potential Ryan White has...

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09-05-2011, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Why were you reading a 1997 SI article?
Even though the article is old, the very same mind-set still exists today. Georges Laraque himself, stated that being an enforcer in the NHL is the hardest job in the world.

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