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Vokoun took less money to play with Capitals because 'I want to enjoy hockey'

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Old
09-07-2011, 01:25 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Oh ****, you mean there was another team in the bidding for a goaltender. That couldn't of happened though right.
Check out Detroits situation in goal, and you tell me how interested Vokoun would be in going there.

Only reasonp Detroit was interested was the why not theory at a low salary.

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09-07-2011, 02:18 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Check out Detroits situation in goal, and you tell me how interested Vokoun would be in going there.

Only reasonp Detroit was interested was the why not theory at a low salary.
This is literally the funniest thing I've read from you Jester.

Are you telling me Washington's goalie situation was more intriguing for Vokoun? Neuvirth and Holtby both played remarkably well last season, and Holtby has star potential. Jimmy Howard is coming off of a very average season....and you're saying that Vokoun past Detroit up because of their situation in goal?

Can't you just admit you were wrong for once?


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09-07-2011, 09:20 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
This is literally the funniest thing I've read from you Jester.

Are you telling me Washington's goalie situation was more intriguing for Vokoun? Neuvirth and Holtby both played remarkably well last season, and Holtby has star potential. Jimmy Howard is coming off of a very average season....and you're saying that Vokoun past Detroit up because of their situation in goal?

Can't you just admit you were wrong for once?
Jimmy Howard is coming off of a solid sophomore year, and consecutive years where he was very strong in the playoffs. Detroit wasn't bidding on Vokoun because they're upset with Howard's play. He's also 27 and groomed by Detroit specifically for his role.

Holtby is 21 with 14 CAREER games played.

Neuvirth hasn't exactly blown the door off... and has had some problems in the playoffs.

If you're comparing Washington's situation in goal to Detroit's situation in goal, you need to wander out to the local convenience store and purchase a clue.

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09-07-2011, 09:42 PM
  #104
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Yeah I'm not getting the Jimmy Howard downplay...

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09-07-2011, 09:46 PM
  #105
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Jimmy Howard is not a goalie you want on your team if you're a 35 y/o goalie that wants to go somewhere with pretty much a guarantee that you're going to be the guy.

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09-07-2011, 10:44 PM
  #106
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Howard was extremely average last season...it's pretty standard info that he didnt have a great year. He wasn't bad, but he certainly wasn't great either. Neuvirth easily played better than Howard did last season.

Howard only hs one above average season to his credit, and it was two years ago. Neuvirth has had just as much success, and he's had it more recently.

To say that Detroit's goaltending situation was any better than the Caps, let alone by a substantial margin, is simply not true. And you're telling me to get a clue. Awesome. Always good for a laugh Jester

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09-07-2011, 10:54 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Howard was extremely average last season...it's pretty standard info that he didnt have a great year. He wasn't bad, but he certainly wasn't great either. Neuvirth easily played better than Howard did last season.

Howard only hs one above average season to his credit, and it was two years ago. Neuvirth has had just as much success, and he's had it more recently.

To say that Detroit's goaltending situation was any better than the Caps, let alone by a substantial margin, is simply not true. And you're telling me to get a clue. Awesome. Always good for a laugh Jester
Easily?

Neuvirth was marginally better. He played less games, had less wins, etc. He doesn't have a single season anywhere near as good as the one Howard posted two years ago... of course, Howard has played 126 games to Neuvirth's 65 the last two years. This is without getting into the fact that Neuvirth was shredded by TB.

Detroit's goaltending situation was ABSOLUTELY better than Washington's heading into the offseason.

So, yeah, get a clue...

Did Howard have a fantastic year? No. Do you really think Detroit is jumping ship on him?

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09-07-2011, 10:54 PM
  #108
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Howards "only good season" was one year ago, ending in 2010.

In the 3 seasons they've both played, Howard has put up nearly twice as many games as Neuvirth, beats him in GAA and SVPCT, and has close to as twice as many wins as Neuvirth. Hell, he has more wins than Neuvirth has games played. Neuvirth is also worse than Bob when it comes to getting beaten top shelf...you pick that corner against him and it's almost an instant goal.

Howard is definitely more proven than Neuvirth, and overall he's better. It's also in Detroit's best interest to keep rolling with him as starter. It is not currently in Washington's interest to continue with Neuvirth as starter. He needs more development time as a backup.

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09-07-2011, 11:13 PM
  #109
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Neuvirth was quite clearly the better goaltender last season. He was given a majority of the starts, and handled it just fine. Howard wasthe #1 guy in Detroit, but his play was not up to the level of Neuvirth's. Only difference is that Detroit didnt have two other potential #1s in Varlamov and Holtby ready to go when Howard faltered.

Washington's goaltending situation was easily equal to Detroit's. Hence Detroit's interest in Vokoun in the first place.

There is absolutely no discussion here. Vokoun did not pick the Caps because their goaltending situation was worse than Detroit's. That is just laughable. Washington would have been quite content with Neuvirth as their starter again.

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09-07-2011, 11:19 PM
  #110
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Did you watch the Caps playoff series?

There's a reason EVERYONE (except for you, apparently) said they needed a goalie.

The Washington Capitals have less cap space than the Flyers. They would have been content with Neuvirth simply because they wouldn't have been able to sign anyone else outside of a really cheap deal.

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09-07-2011, 11:31 PM
  #111
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I wonder how much you actually watched the Caps and Neuvirth.

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09-07-2011, 11:41 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Did you watch the Caps playoff series?

There's a reason EVERYONE (except for you, apparently) said they needed a goalie.

The Washington Capitals have less cap space than the Flyers. They would have been content with Neuvirth simply because they wouldn't have been able to sign anyone else outside of a really cheap deal.
Did you watch the Red Wings in the regular season?

Neither team needed Vokoun. He was a luxury for two contending teams...but the notion that Vokoun turned down the Red Wings because of Howard is idiotic to say the least when the Caps have Neuvirth and Holtby who both are proving their worth.


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I wonder how much you actually watched the Caps and Neuvirth.
You literally provide no substance to any discussion I've ever had with you. Jester is like talking to a wall, but at least the wall gives me back something to think about. Sheesh. You used the argument above that Howard played in twice as many games..........well no ****! He's played in twice as many seasons

And yes, I live in Virginia, and my parents have season tickets to Caps game, for your information. I watched plenty of Neuvirth thank you. I question if you watched Howard last season.

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09-07-2011, 11:48 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Did you watch the Red Wings in the regular season?

Neither team needed Vokoun. He was a luxury for two contending teams...but the notion that Vokoun turned down the Red Wings because of Howard is idiotic to say the least when the Caps have Neuvirth and Holtby who both are proving their worth.
Yes. I also watched Neuvirth prove no one in their right *ing mind should commit their Stanley Cup hopes to him. The Caps ABSOLUTELY needed a goalie, and now they have one. Holtby is a non-entity for the Caps trying to win a Stanley Cup this year... and Neuvirth may be great in the years ahead, but he ain't anywhere close to being ready right now. Similar to the reasons why I wanted Vokoun here, he's the ideal guy for them to bring those guys along behind and release to full-time starter in a year or two.

In all seriousness, if you think what Neuvirth did was all that impressive, then you should be furious that the Flyers didn't just go with Bob.

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09-08-2011, 12:00 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Did you watch the Red Wings in the regular season?

Neither team needed Vokoun. He was a luxury for two contending teams...but the notion that Vokoun turned down the Red Wings because of Howard is idiotic to say the least when the Caps have Neuvirth and Holtby who both are proving their worth.




You literally provide no substance to any discussion I've ever had with you. Jester is like talking to a wall, but at least the wall gives me back something to think about. Sheesh. You used the argument above that Howard played in twice as many games..........well no ****! He's played in twice as many seasons

And yes, I live in Virginia, and my parents have season tickets to Caps game, for your information. I watched plenty of Neuvirth thank you. I question if you watched Howard last season.
Yeah, 5 games in 3 seasons is a GREAT sample size. Hence why I went on the last 3.

I would happily take Howard over Neuvirth. Neuvirth likely doesn't start for the Caps if Varly doesn't struggle with injuries all season, for one thing.

I'm sorry if you think I bring nothing to the discussion. It's funny you say that after I mention that Howard has performed better than Neuvirth, which you ignored. Well done. At least I don't have to try to denigrate others to make a point.

Edit: If you average their stats from the last two seasons, you'll find that Howard performs better than Neuvirth.

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09-08-2011, 12:26 AM
  #115
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If Neuvirth was so great, the goaltending deals in Washington would not have been hailed as the coup that they were.

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09-08-2011, 12:56 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yeah, 5 games in 3 seasons is a GREAT sample size. Hence why I went on the last 3.

I would happily take Howard over Neuvirth. Neuvirth likely doesn't start for the Caps if Varly doesn't struggle with injuries all season, for one thing.

I'm sorry if you think I bring nothing to the discussion. It's funny you say that after I mention that Howard has performed better than Neuvirth, which you ignored. Well done. At least I don't have to try to denigrate others to make a point.

Edit: If you average their stats from the last two seasons, you'll find that Howard performs better than Neuvirth.
Neuvirth has one full length NHL season, and he's done just fine in it. Howard has two. He's played great in one, and mediocre in the other. The difference between the two right now is minimal if anything at all.


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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yes. I also watched Neuvirth prove no one in their right *ing mind should commit their Stanley Cup hopes to him. The Caps ABSOLUTELY needed a goalie, and now they have one. Holtby is a non-entity for the Caps trying to win a Stanley Cup this year... and Neuvirth may be great in the years ahead, but he ain't anywhere close to being ready right now. Similar to the reasons why I wanted Vokoun here, he's the ideal guy for them to bring those guys along behind and release to full-time starter in a year or two.

In all seriousness, if you think what Neuvirth did was all that impressive, then you should be furious that the Flyers didn't just go with Bob.
Neuvirth had a bad series. The rest of the season he was solid as a rock. Howard played a mediocre regular season and picked it up in the playoffs.

I'm not saying Neuvirth is better, just that he had a better season. I'm not even saying the Caps have a better goaltending situation...just that it's idiotic to declare either team to have had a clearly better situation in goal.

Vokoun's decision had nothing to do with Howard being in Detroit...Neuvirth is just as big a threat to his job as Howard would have been in Detroit....that is to say, he would have been the clear #1 in either city.

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In all seriousness, if you think what Neuvirth did was all that impressive, then you should be furious that the Flyers didn't just go with Bob.
I dont follow this logic at all. Bryzgalov is a massive upgrade on Bob. And Bob is on par with both Howard and Neuvirth. And Vokoun is a pretty substantial upgrade on that trio as well.

So why would I want Bob again?


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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If Neuvirth was so great, the goaltending deals in Washington would not have been hailed as the coup that they were.
I have never said that Neuvirth was "so great". Just that he was steady, and just as dependable as a #1 goaltender as Jimmy Howard.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that statement.

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09-08-2011, 03:57 AM
  #117
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The difference between Detroits defense and washingtons also plays a factor into those stats you love so much jester.

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09-08-2011, 07:34 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
This is literally the funniest thing I've read from you Jester.

Are you telling me Washington's goalie situation was more intriguing for Vokoun? Neuvirth and Holtby both played remarkably well last season, and Holtby has star potential. Jimmy Howard is coming off of a very average season....and you're saying that Vokoun past Detroit up because of their situation in goal?

Can't you just admit you were wrong for once?
Not gonna happen man. Jester knows all. If the Flyers weren't so stupid as to sign the best available goalie, all they would have had to do is offer Vokoun a contract (in any amount) and he would have accepted because everyone knows that is what would have happened because Homer is stupid and Vokoun would have signed in Philly, regardless of all the articles saying he wanted to go to Washington and that other teams were interested. Don't you realize this?

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09-12-2011, 04:33 PM
  #119
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A lot of the points, specifically regarding Detroit and guarantees of playing time, were addressed in my previous wall of text (or in the links in that post). Detroit wanted a veteran back-up, Washington made no guarantees about playing time at the time of the deal. Vokoun said Washington "showed more interest." Since the signing, Boudreau has essentially said Vokoun will be the starter.

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Howards "only good season" was one year ago, ending in 2010.

In the 3 seasons they've both played, Howard has put up nearly twice as many games as Neuvirth, beats him in GAA and SVPCT, and has close to as twice as many wins as Neuvirth. Hell, he has more wins than Neuvirth has games played. Neuvirth is also worse than Bob when it comes to getting beaten top shelf...you pick that corner against him and it's almost an instant goal.
Lolwut? Neuvirth definitely has issues he needs addressed, but getting beat up high is not on the top of that priority list. He doesn't go down nearly as early as Bob does and his glove hand is quite fast.

Neuvy's biggest issue is keeping track of the puck when it's in the corners or behind the net. When the other team takes the puck beneath the goal line, it's always a nervewracking situation about whether or not Neuvirth can be in the right position in time to make a save when it comes out.

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Howard is definitely more proven than Neuvirth, and overall he's better. It's also in Detroit's best interest to keep rolling with him as starter. It is not currently in Washington's interest to continue with Neuvirth as starter. He needs more development time as a backup.
Washington had absolutely no problem going into this season with Neuvirth as the starter. Vokoun came to Washington, not the other way around. McPhee has made it abundantly clear that this was an opportunity signing. They got a goalie they viewed as top 10 in the league at a back-up price.

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Did you watch the Caps playoff series?

There's a reason EVERYONE (except for you, apparently) said they needed a goalie.
And, you know, Capitals fans. Neuvirth certainly didn't make many "robbery" saves during the Tampa series, but most of his goals against he was completely hung out to dry. It's not as if he let in a bunch of bad goals (the Downie goal in game 1 is the only one I can think of off the top of my head). The defense didn't do anything to help him in that series, Most of the goals were a result of odd-man rushes or people parked in his crease.

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The Washington Capitals have less cap space than the Flyers. They would have been content with Neuvirth simply because they wouldn't have been able to sign anyone else outside of a really cheap deal.
Considering that Poti is effecitvely Rathje'd, the Caps have $1.9M in (LTIR) cap space. Remove Vokoun from the equation and it is at $3.4M. More than enough to have gunned for a goaltender in the off-season if McPhee had felt that was a need. Especially given how aggressive McPhee was in day 1 of the free agency (Hamrlik, Ward, Halpern, Varlamov trade) and beforehand (Brouwer trade), it was clear that goaltending was not a prime issue in the club's mind. If they felt they needed a goalie, they certainly had the ability to target one. Instead they opted to spend on other areas.

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09-12-2011, 04:36 PM
  #120
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3.4M isn't getting you Bryz, and the other options weren't all that appealing (unless your TB).

As to Caps fans. Folks that have been watching hockey for three years on average... Whatever.

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09-12-2011, 04:37 PM
  #121
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Not gonna happen man. Jester knows all. If the Flyers weren't so stupid as to sign the best available goalie, all they would have had to do is offer Vokoun a contract (in any amount) and he would have accepted because everyone knows that is what would have happened because Homer is stupid and Vokoun would have signed in Philly, regardless of all the articles saying he wanted to go to Washington and that other teams were interested. Don't you realize this?
I know one thing for sure.

homer is smarter than this drivel.

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09-12-2011, 04:57 PM
  #122
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3.4M isn't getting you Bryz, and the other options weren't all that appealing (unless your TB).
Did I say Bryz? And way to miss the forest for the trees. If McPhee had felt a goaltender was an area of need, he wouldn't have invested so much cap space in players like Troy Brouwer or Joel Ward. Washington's management pretty clearly felt that goaltending was not the significant problem with the club.

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