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09-07-2011, 05:25 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I'm probably in the minority but if DD is signed, I want an announcement regardless of the crash. What are we suppose to do if the news leaked out? Are we suppose to act unexcited because that would be perceived as being disrespectful to those who were effected by the crash? Nonsense!!!

There's too much political correctness in the world. I'm sick and tired of it.

PC can bite my ass!
No offence but this isn't PC this is just being thoughtful, a whole freaking team died plus others, will a few days kill us ........prayers to all those souls who died too early

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09-07-2011, 05:35 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
I am not suggesting that you should feel worse. While what you're saying is completely logical, human beings are not logical creatures. Should we feel any worse about the death of one human being over another if neither is someone we personally knew? Logically, the answer is "No." But logic has little sway over an emotional response. If you feel something, you feel it, and if you don't, you don't. People who love the game of hockey have an emotional connection to the people that play it and will feel the death of a bunch of hockey players much more keenly than the death of some other people who are not hockey players. I understand your point, but you're trying to apply logic to a response which is completely emotional and illogical by its very nature.

I know that I should not feel any worse about the deaths of these players than about the deaths of any group of people who died for any reason. But knowing what I should feel from a logical perspective does not change the fact that I do feel worse because they were hockey players. My emotional response doesn't give a crap about my logic.
Well as I said in my original post, it is my personal opinion that the emotional response you are speaking of is often feigned. I'm not saying that is the case for anyone here in particular but in general I think people are conditioned that they should feel remorse or sadness so that is what they express. In reality, I think most people will go on with their lives by tonight at the dinner table or probably have already done so but those same people probably feel it would be callous to admit as much. That is why I said we're naturally hypocrits.

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Originally Posted by alpa View Post
So you would feel exactly the same way about Igor and his passengers (that you never heard of) or a NHL team it wouldn't make you feel any more or less?

Really? ..and I'm talking about the emotional part and not the they are more or less worth in comparison.

If you truly are emotionally equal to this scenario you should call yourself Spock The Elf.
Sure it is sad on many levels and of course I would feel a connection if the Kings plane were to crash but I wouldn't feel any worse for those guys than driving by the scene of a minivan totaled on the side of the freeway with a family of all 4 killed.

I honestly think it is pretty sad that people pretty much ignore what goes on around the world or even their own city and a lot of us who live in "free" societies who actually have an impact on said things won't even bother use our "freedom" at the polls much less get involved.

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Old
09-07-2011, 05:37 PM
  #53
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No offence but this isn't PC this is just being thoughtful, a whole freaking team died plus others, will a few days kill us ........prayers to all those souls who died too early
None taken.

So, answer me this. So, is it ok for DD to announce his signing only if only a few had died while many survived? At which number (number of death) is it ok to announce the signing and which not?

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09-07-2011, 05:41 PM
  #54
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Eh, I am a 'the show must go on' type, but I understand those that don't find it appropriate.

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09-07-2011, 05:43 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I'm probably in the minority but if DD is signed, I want an announcement regardless of the crash. What are we suppose to do if the news leaked out? Are we suppose to act unexcited because that would be perceived as being disrespectful to those who were effected by the crash? Nonsense!!!

There's too much political correctness in the world. I'm sick and tired of it.

PC can bite my ass!
What an absolutely shameful post.

Reverence for the loss of 30+ innocent lives, many of which held a connection to the NHL, including two that had a direct association with the Kings, is in no way, shape or form "polictically correct."

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09-07-2011, 05:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
None taken.

So, answer me this. So, is it ok for DD to announce his signing only if only a few had died while many survived? At which number (number of death) is it ok to announce the signing and which not?
Two former members of the LA Kings organization were on that plane. If a deal was actually struck between DD and the Kings (and I'll believe it when I see it), why would they want to take anything away from the time for reflection of those players on the day of their deaths? That's like attending a funeral and telling everyone you won the lottery. A cause for personal celebration? Hell yes. The time and place to share it? Uhh no. In full disclosure, I WANT to know if DD reached an agreement for my own satisfaction. But I can totally see why the Kings wouldn't release the news today if they did.

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09-07-2011, 05:54 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by cyclones22 View Post
Two former members of the LA Kings organization were on that plane. If a deal was actually struck between DD and the Kings (and I'll believe it when I see it), why would they want to take anything away from the time for reflection of those players on the day of their deaths? That's like attending a funeral and telling everyone you won the lottery. A cause for personal celebration? Hell yes. The time and place to share it? Uhh no. In full disclosure, I WANT to know if DD reached an agreement for my own satisfaction. But I can totally see why the Kings wouldn't release the news today if they did.
So, if there hadn't been former kings on board, then, is it ok to announce it?

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Old
09-07-2011, 06:03 PM
  #58
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Well as I said in my original post, it is my personal opinion that the emotional response you are speaking of is often feigned. I'm not saying that is the case for anyone here in particular but in general I think people are conditioned that they should feel remorse or sadness so that is what they express.
Of course people are conditioned. But by the mere act of expressing an emotion you feel that emotion to an extent. If you feel unhappy and force yourself to smile, you will feel better. If you're happy and force yourself to frown, you will feel worse.

Conditioning does not make the emotion nonexistent, it makes the emotion a learned response. That's not hypocrisy. Sure, some people will feel nothing and express feelings that they know they are expected to express even through they do not actually have them. But I'm willing to be that the vast majority of people who expressed being upset by the news were actually upset. There's very little to be gained by expressing sorrow anonymously on a message board. Your analysis would be far more accurate in a scenario where the people were in public and following social cues for what is appropriate behavior in this scenario - you'd find a much higher percentage of hypocrites.

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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
In reality, I think most people will go on with their lives by tonight at the dinner table or probably have already done so but those same people probably feel it would be callous to admit as much. That is why I said we're naturally hypocrits.
Of course everyone will go on with their lives. Why wouldn't they? The friends and families of those who died will go on with their lives, too. The difference will be that it will take much, much longer for them to get over what happened. The further removed we are from the people involved, the less upset we are and the quicker we will get over it. So yeah, these were strangers and for most of us this will have no long-lasting effect on our mood. But it would be weird if a person who did not know any of these players personally would suddenly go into an extended mourning period, would it not? Experiencing sadness, even fleeting sadness, over a sad event to which we feel some connection is perfectly normal. It is not hypocrisy.

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09-07-2011, 06:08 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Well as I said in my original post, it is my personal opinion that the emotional response you are speaking of is often feigned. I'm not saying that is the case for anyone here in particular but in general I think people are conditioned that they should feel remorse or sadness so that is what they express. In reality, I think most people will go on with their lives by tonight at the dinner table or probably have already done so but those same people probably feel it would be callous to admit as much. That is why I said we're naturally hypocrits.

Sure it is sad on many levels and of course I would feel a connection if the Kings plane were to crash but I wouldn't feel any worse for those guys than driving by the scene of a minivan totaled on the side of the freeway with a family of all 4 killed.

I honestly think it is pretty sad that people pretty much ignore what goes on around the world or even their own city and a lot of us who live in "free" societies who actually have an impact on said things won't even bother use our "freedom" at the polls much less get involved.
As a frequent "lurker" I usually enjoy your posts but I have to say I think this is a sad and cynical point of view.

Due to my job I regularly have to deal with death and the aftermath. I deal with incidents involving children and the elderly and there are differing feelings. I think one point lost in this debate is the lost potential of those deceased. If a family of four, or a planeload of young people, irregardless of their nationalities were to die, I am sad for the loss of "what might have been". I'm sad for the loss the families feel because I've felt it too. I don't think it's hypocritical or "feigned" to feel that way.

Extrapolating on your example, it would seem to say you feel the same ambivalence if a soldier in the Middle East were killed compared to a gang banger in LA. I'm sorry, but I feel totally different in regards to each death mostly due to unreached potential.

Just a differing POV and RIP to all on board the plane and prayers to their families.

In regards to the Doughty signing, I think decorum dictates they wait at least a day. I know it wouldn't break my heart if they did. I just want him signed, I don't care if it's the day before training camp and I don't think the players would care either. Just show up ready to play.

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Old
09-07-2011, 06:10 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
None taken.

So, answer me this. So, is it ok for DD to announce his signing only if only a few had died while many survived? At which number (number of death) is it ok to announce the signing and which not?
there is an old saying if it feels wrong don't do it, it would feel wrong to most to celebrate today......and to those that say there is suffering everyday everywhere I agree and the world is a harsh place but shocking things change perspectives and this was pretty shocking

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Old
09-07-2011, 06:12 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
So, if there hadn't been former kings on board, then, is it ok to announce it?
What part of empathy do you not understand? I think that's what some here are making a case for. It's a judgement call, and we're totally speculating that there is even news to report, which is the most amusing part of this entire exchange.

My point is that the fact that former Kings are part of this tragedy and that may play a part in any kind of delay in announcement if there even IS an announcement to be had. But we're totally disregarding that there are 2 parties to this potential agreement.

Let's play make believe that there is an agreement. If you're Drew, do you really want to be interviewed today about it or even have to take a call about it? I wouldn't. The organization would be putting him in a bad spot by doing it. He wouldn't even be able to truly celebrate his first big contract.

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Old
09-07-2011, 06:16 PM
  #62
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Your analysis would be far more accurate in a scenario where the people were in public and following social cues for what is appropriate behavior in this scenario - you'd find a much higher percentage of hypocrites.
No it would be more accurate if you were listening to friends speak with each other in confidence. People often make jokes about sad or atricious events and laugh about it but fear shame for announcing those thoughts in a public setting. And I think this is "public", is it not? Anyone can register for this site but people also have a reputation to uphold which is why you will find people reluctant to make statements like I've made for fear of being seen as callous. I haven't looked but go take a look at yahoo! or one of the other news sites that allows comments and I can almost guarantee you that you'll find a more honest response with people making jokes etc as for the most part people are anonymous there.

It is also my opinion that the only reason the Kings organization wouldn't make an announcement on a day like today is PR motivated and not benevolence like everyone seems to think. Of course, that could be me just being cynical.

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Old
09-07-2011, 06:29 PM
  #63
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As a frequent "lurker" I usually enjoy your posts but I have to say I think this is a sad and cynical point of view.

Due to my job I regularly have to deal with death and the aftermath. I deal with incidents involving children and the elderly and there are differing feelings. I think one point lost in this debate is the lost potential of those deceased. [B]If a family of four, or a planeload of young people, irregardless of their nationalities were to die, I am sad for the loss of "what might have been". I'm sad for the loss the families feel because I've felt it too. I don't think it's hypocritical or "feigned" to feel that way. [/B

Extrapolating on your example, it would seem to say you feel the same ambivalence if a soldier in the Middle East were killed compared to a gang banger in LA. I'm sorry, but I feel totally different in regards to each death mostly due to unreached potential.
I think you are kinda agreeing with me. I think it is sad when anyone dies which is why I'm not distinguishing these unknown (well I know their names and I am familiar with their occupation) people from those I may see dead on the side of the road at the hands of a car accident. If anything, I'd feel more empathy in that case because I've been in some serious car accidents and know people who have died in them.

Look, I dont want to be the callous Elf so I'll just drop it. Maybe I'm wrong on the issue, it wouldn't be the first time but it is only my honest opinion.


Last edited by Buddy The Elf: 09-07-2011 at 06:38 PM.
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Old
09-07-2011, 06:30 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
No it would be more accurate if you were listening to friends speak with each other in confidence. People often make jokes about sad or atricious events and laugh about it but fear shame for announcing those thoughts in a public setting. And I think this is "public", is it not? Anyone can register for this site but people also have a reputation to uphold which is why you will find people reluctant to make statements like I've made for fear of being seen as callous. I haven't looked but go take a look at yahoo! or one of the other news sites that allows comments and I can almost guarantee you that you'll find a more honest response with people making jokes etc as for the most part people are anonymous there.

It is also my opinion that the only reason the Kings organization wouldn't make an announcement on a day like today is PR motivated and not benevolence like everyone seems to think. Of course, that could be me just being cynical.
dam brother you are in a pretty sad state, You think I am being hypocritical because of being saddened by this and I am worried people will think less of me because of it so I take exception to what I believe are self centered views over something so meaning less as when DD signs, truly epic ********..........

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09-07-2011, 06:35 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by yankeeking View Post
there is an old saying if it feels wrong don't do it, it would feel wrong to most to celebrate today...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclones22 View Post
If you're Drew, do you really want to be interviewed today about it or even have to take a call about it?
As a reasonable man, I will defer to both of your points.

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09-07-2011, 06:37 PM
  #66
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dam brother you are in a pretty sad state, You think I am being hypocritical because of being saddened by this and I am worried people will think less of me because of it so I take exception to what I believe are self centered views over something so meaning less as when DD signs, truly epic ********..........
No, I think you are misinterpreting what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is people might not give two hoots about this plane crash but will in fact say something on a message board or in public, that they do care because they don't want to be seen as callous or not caring. This isn't a crazy notion. Humans do this all the time.

For example, I asked a co-worker if they heard about that this morning and she said "wow, that is sad" and I can almost guarantee you she didn't think about it once more the rest of the day. Now her honest opinion was probably "I don't give a ****, I don't know these people" but instead of saying that, she said "wow, that is sad" and then carried on with what she was doing.

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09-07-2011, 07:09 PM
  #67
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I think you are kinda agreeing with me. I think it is sad when anyone dies which is why I'm not distinguishing these unknown (well I know their names and I am familiar with their occupation) people from those I may see dead on the side of the road at the hands of a car accident. If anything, I'd feel more empathy in that case because I've been in some serious car accidents and know people who have died in them.

Look, I dont want to be the callous Elf so I'll just drop it. Maybe I'm wrong but on the issue, it wouldn't be the first time but it is only my honest opinion.
I see what you mean. I think I got the impression that we shouldn't feel sad based on the fact that we didn't actually know the people. I think most people "feel" sad for those involved, but it is fleeting.

In regards to the post where you were talking about the humor people find in death, I think the worst offenders are firefighters (spoken from experience) but i think this is really a coping mechanism because we have to deal with death fairly regularly, depending on where you work.

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09-07-2011, 07:49 PM
  #68
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I see what you mean. I think I got the impression that we shouldn't feel sad based on the fact that we didn't actually know the people. I think most people "feel" sad for those involved, but it is fleeting.

In regards to the post where you were talking about the humor people find in death, I think the worst offenders are firefighters (spoken from experience) but i think this is really a coping mechanism because we have to deal with death fairly regularly, depending on where you work.
Yeah that isn't what I was saying at all and I apologize if that is how people interpreted it. I do feel bad and it was shocking to hear this morning.

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Old
09-07-2011, 08:45 PM
  #69
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It would be out of respect for the Hockey World as a whole.
Just catching up on the boards today as I was away from the computer. I agree that we need to sensitive due to the crash, but the freakin' KHL isn't even stopping games for tomorrow and it was their players and league! I think people hsould be more pissed at that, than the Sid presser or if the Kings announce a signing.

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09-07-2011, 08:54 PM
  #70
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Just catching up on the boards today as I was away from the computer. I agree that we need to sensitive due to the crash, but the freakin' KHL isn't even stopping games for tomorrow and it was their players and league! I think people hsould be more pissed at that, than the Sid presser or if the Kings announce a signing.
The owners need to make money. It brings up an interesting discussion, what happens if this happens here to any of the major 4 sports? How would they adjust the schedule? Would they bring in replacements like they eventually did at Marshall? It's something nobody wants to think about but it's the harsh reality of the world we live in today. Life doesn't stop with death, for those of us who have dealt with losing people close to us you know this all too well. For those of you who haven't the only thing I can tell you is to enjoy your sense of invincibility while it lasts.

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09-07-2011, 08:57 PM
  #71
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Please use the Demitra thread to comment on the plane crash. Let's keep this thread focused on Drew's contract status.

Thanks...

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09-07-2011, 10:00 PM
  #72
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09-07-2011, 10:07 PM
  #73
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09-07-2011, 10:15 PM
  #74
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You guys aren't using the internet correctly.



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09-07-2011, 10:35 PM
  #75
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You guys aren't using the internet correctly.



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NHL Rumor: Sounds like Drew Doughty has agreed (in principle) on a new deal with the Kings, unlikely anything is announced today - @krufrank
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My source confirms this as well. You know who you are.

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