You're overrating Winchester and underrating Oreskovich. He doesn't have all world awareness, but he read plays well enough, at least as well as Glass did, and was more effective on the forecheck. I only know Winchester from the games he played against us, but the guy looks like an Idiot. Sure, an idiot who seems to have finish around the net, and like to fight, but he's also probably going to cost us a few goals with bonehead plays and poor defensive reads.
There is no way Oreo is getting a one way deal. The negotiations are probably due to term or money. Not to mention he'll probably be, at best, our 13th forward and not an everyday player.
Glass is a *hell* of a lot more advanced all-around player than Oreskovich. Glass was capable of handling 12-13 minutes of 3rd line duty and not looking out of place in terms of his play without the puck, and was given PK duty at times.
Oreskovich would have been horribly exposed in those minutes.
The guy is a poor man's Dan Lacouture. He's not an awful system asset in terms of a big body who can chew up a few 4th line minutes in a pinch, but he's a below-average 4th line player at both ends of the rink.
As for Winchester, he scored 26 goals in 40 games the last time he was in the AHL and is a substantially superior player to Oreskovich in every single aspect of the game.
Glass is a *hell* of a lot more advanced all-around player than Oreskovich. Glass was capable of handling 12-13 minutes of 3rd line duty and not looking out of place in terms of his play without the puck, and was given PK duty at times.
Oreskovich would have been horribly exposed in those minutes.
The guy is a poor man's Dan Lacouture. He's not an awful system asset in terms of a big body who can chew up a few 4th line minutes in a pinch, but he's a below-average 4th line player at both ends of the rink.
As for Winchester, he scored 26 goals in 40 games the last time he was in the AHL and is a substantially superior player to Oreskovich in every single aspect of the game.
Glass? Tanner Glass? are you serious? he couldn't handle 12-13 4th line minutes never mind 3rd line minutes, a supposedly big body tough guy that had what? one hit in the playoffs and how many fights? I must have missed the game he put Marchand in his place. Tanner Glass is and was an offensive blackhole and a defensive liability that shouldn't be playing 3rd line AHL minutes
Glass? Tanner Glass? are you serious? he couldn't handle 12-13 4th line minutes never mind 3rd line minutes, a supposedly big body tough guy that had what? one hit in the playoffs and how many fights? I must have missed the game he put Marchand in his place. Tanner Glass is and was an offensive blackhole and a defensive liability that shouldn't be playing 3rd line AHL minutes
Of course Glass is a black hole offensively (although still probably better than Oreskovich) but he was a very solid, positionally aware bottom-6 guy in terms of his defensive play. He had several long stretches here where he was playing 12-13 minutes on a 3rd line and was more than holding his own defensively, and to say otherwise is utterly false. Was even given some PK duties. Whatever you can say about the guy, he was *not* a defensive liability and was in fact probably above-average in that regard for a 4th line player.
Glass' playoff performance is not a reflection on him as a player as he was rushed back from an abdominal tear in late March and was nowhere near as effective as he was previous to the injury. Shouldn't have been playing IMO.
Surprised how many people liked Oreskovich so much. Terrible offensively, below-average defensively, can't fight, occasionally physical but not consistent in that regard. And he's 25 so it's not like he's fresh out of junior or anything.
It's all well and good that he's big! and fast! but he accomplishes absolutely nothing of substance. If we don't want to go through another playoffs where we go 4 rounds without getting a goal from our 4th line players like this have to be replaced.
I'm hardly a huge Glass fan but the sad fact of the matter is that he's been our best 4th line player over the past two seasons. And given how mediocre he is, that's bloody depressing. We need a major upgrade there.
Lapierre is 4th liner this year, that is the best player who has anchored a 4th line since Chubarov left. One of Higgins/Raymond and Sturm will be threre to (when everyone is healthy). So the Fourth line should be better, who ever tales the 3rd spot on that line (Bitz,Oreskovich,Nolan,Duco)
Glass? Tanner Glass? are you serious? he couldn't handle 12-13 4th line minutes never mind 3rd line minutes, a supposedly big body tough guy that had what? one hit in the playoffs and how many fights? I must have missed the game he put Marchand in his place. Tanner Glass is and was an offensive blackhole and a defensive liability that shouldn't be playing 3rd line AHL minutes
Glass gets an extremely bad rap around here, but the bottom line is that--during the regular season--he was certainly capable of 10-12 minutes a game without hurting the team. He was a useful player who did periodically play on the PK and didn't look grossly out of place. The problem for him has been that his playoff performances have been downright ugly--the heightened pace of the game has left him looking confused and out of place.
But MS isn't wrong in saying that, as an all-round player, Glass was ahead of Oreskovich at least at this point in the game.
Lapierre is 4th liner this year, that is the best player who has anchored a 4th line since Chubarov left. One of Higgins/Raymond and Sturm will be threre to (when everyone is healthy). So the Fourth line should be better, who ever tales the 3rd spot on that line (Bitz,Oreskovich,Nolan,Duco)
Yeah Lapierre centering the 4th line automatically makes that 4th line better than anything we've had in years (if for no other reason, he's been the *only* capable forward able to move up in the lineup [to the 3rd line] without really a negative to the team. Just look at some of the candidates in recent history. Really sad.
With Oreskovich signed that brings us up to 48 contracts. Still room to sign 1 or 2 of the PTO players.
Ya, and I wouldn't worry too much about contract slots; Gillis hasn't been shy in the past trading guys who haven't made the team out of camp (Hordichuk and O'Brien) so if a guy like Alberts doesn't show-up at camp and gets outplayed by a younger guy or something I could see the contract being jettisoned (just using Alberts as an example).
Winchester wants a 2-yr 1-way but doesn't care about money, he just wants to stay in one place for a few years
I would give him the 2- year 1-way at the absolute league minimum if I felt comfortable he was good enough to make the team. Right now I would suggest signing him to a PTO and then figuring this out afterwards.
Oreskovich would have been horribly exposed in those minutes.
The guy is a poor man's Dan Lacouture. He's not an awful system asset in terms of a big body who can chew up a few 4th line minutes in a pinch, but he's a below-average 4th line player at both ends of the rink.
As for Winchester, he scored 26 goals in 40 games the last time he was in the AHL and is a substantially superior player to Oreskovich in every single aspect of the game.
Agreed with your points here, but damn is that even possible?
Winchester wants a 2-yr 1-way but doesn't care about money, he just wants to stay in one place for a few years
Is that confirmed? According to Gilman recently there hasn't been talks since earlier in the off-season:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Province
Winchester - 6-foot-5 and 230 pounds - might fill a role for the Canucks as they look to add size and grit to their lineup. Gilman confirmed the Canucks had some discussions with Winchester's agent earlier in the summer but nothing recently.
Of course Glass is a black hole offensively (although still probably better than Oreskovich) but he was a very solid, positionally aware bottom-6 guy in terms of his defensive play. He had several long stretches here where he was playing 12-13 minutes on a 3rd line and was more than holding his own defensively, and to say otherwise is utterly false. Was even given some PK duties. Whatever you can say about the guy, he was *not* a defensive liability and was in fact probably above-average in that regard for a 4th line player.
Glass' playoff performance is not a reflection on him as a player as he was rushed back from an abdominal tear in late March and was nowhere near as effective as he was previous to the injury. Shouldn't have been playing IMO.
Surprised how many people liked Oreskovich so much. Terrible offensively, below-average defensively, can't fight, occasionally physical but not consistent in that regard. And he's 25 so it's not like he's fresh out of junior or anything.
It's all well and good that he's big! and fast! but he accomplishes absolutely nothing of substance. If we don't want to go through another playoffs where we go 4 rounds without getting a goal from our 4th line players like this have to be replaced.
I'm hardly a huge Glass fan but the sad fact of the matter is that he's been our best 4th line player over the past two seasons. And given how mediocre he is, that's bloody depressing. We need a major upgrade there.
Major upgrade? When everyone's healthy, the 4th line likely has Lapierre centering it with Higgins playing wing. Want more scoring? Put Hodgson on the other wing.
You also aren't giving Oreskovich enough credit. His play with the puck is much more effective than what Glass brings. You mention that he's 25, but somehow conveniently forget that he only has two seasons of professional hockey under his belt, compared to Glass' five. The Canucks own his rights for three more seasons. It's a no-brainer to hold on to him over Glass.
Glass has played alright in Vancouver, but he's reached the ceiling. The Canucks have restarted the process much in the same way they did when Glass was brought in. Bitz, Mancari, and Duco all have similar amounts of NHL experience that Glass did when he was signed by the Canucks.
Winchester wants a 2-yr 1-way but doesn't care about money, he just wants to stay in one place for a few years
I don't blame the guy. I don't blame Gillis either, he seems to want to switch things up every year. A PTO is fine, but what the real try-out is is how well they play in the postseason. That's why Higgins was offered a contract and why Glass wasn't. we won't be able to see how well Winchester does until next playoffs, hence the 1 year offer.
Is that confirmed? According to Gilman recently there hasn't been talks since earlier in the off-season.
I have a few sources of my own, Gillis put his offer on the table and he's waiting to see what Winchester's camp will do
In a recent thing, Winchester was asked about a contract with VAN and he smirked and said that he couldn't talk about it. I believe it was Murph who posted that.
I have a few sources of my own, Gillis put his offer on the table and he's waiting to see what Winchester's camp will do
In a recent thing, Winchester was asked about a contract with VAN and he smirked and said that he couldn't talk about it. I believe it was Murph who posted that.
Ah, fair enough.
I don't really have a problem with a 2-year / 1-way at league minimum; the guy was just traded for a 3rd rounder last trade deadline so I don't see his contract as a problem unless we're unrealistic about the return.
Regarding the Oreskovich deal, I'm assuming it's probably a 1-year / 2-way as that gives him an opportunity to prove himself and re-negotiate.
Glass is a *hell* of a lot more advanced all-around player than Oreskovich. Glass was capable of handling 12-13 minutes of 3rd line duty and not looking out of place in terms of his play without the puck, and was given PK duty at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBeautiful
Glass? Tanner Glass? are you serious? he couldn't handle 12-13 4th line minutes never mind 3rd line minutes, a supposedly big body tough guy that had what? one hit in the playoffs and how many fights? I must have missed the game he put Marchand in his place. Tanner Glass is and was an offensive blackhole and a defensive liability that shouldn't be playing 3rd line AHL minutes
You clearly didn't read his post, he said Glass can play those minutes and not look out of place without the puck which is absolutely true. Glass is a competent defensive player who hits (maybe not enough) and fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Of course Glass is a black hole offensively (although still probably better than Oreskovich)
...
Surprised how many people liked Oreskovich so much. Terrible offensively, below-average defensively, can't fight, occasionally physical but not consistent in that regard. And he's 25 so it's not like he's fresh out of junior or anything.
People still think of Oreskovich as a player with unrealized potential because a. he was a pretty high draft pick, and b. he took a couple of years off the game (so he isn't as far into his career as "he's 25" would suggest) and made it into the NHL almost right away after that.
The other thing is, VO seems to be capable at the very least of moving the puck along the boards in the offensive zone. He's not a great forechecker and his decision-making with the puck is poor at best, but he at least appears to have the skills to allow a line to maintain momentum in the offensive zone which is more than can be said for Glass.
That being said I don't think the Canucks are in a position to regularly play a player who is not an adequate fourth liner at this point - hopefully for Oreskovich's sake he's improved in the offseason.
Quote:
As for Winchester, he scored 26 goals in 40 games the last time he was in the AHL and is a substantially superior player to Oreskovich in every single aspect of the game.
Totally agreed here. Obviously Tanner Glass can do things Winchester can't but overall Brad Winchester is a better player than either TG or VO.
I hope Mike Gillis is simply playing hardball at this point, and won't shy away from upgrading the team over an additional contract or a couple hundred thousand dollars.
You also aren't giving Oreskovich enough credit. His play with the puck is much more effective than what Glass brings.
Yeah Ores' play with the puck is much better, and with Glass's shot missing the net by about three or four feet, Ores only misses by about a foot/foot & a half, so his shot is a tad better as well.
Yeah Ores' play with the puck is much better, and with Glass's shot missing the net by about three or four feet, Ores only misses by about a foot/foot & a half, so his shot is a tad better as well.
They both bring the same amount of grit.
Oreskovich is bigger and arguably faster than Glass. The thing with him is that he doesn't give up possession as easily as Glass does - he's better along the boards and when he has the puck, usually makes a decent play with it. Glass might be better in his own end, but Oreskovich is better at keeping the puck in the opponent's end.
Fair signing...I still think VO has more to offer then what he gave last season. I would definitely take him over Glass though. I actually liked Glass when he got here 2 years ago, but after this years PO's I had had enough of him. Too much of a regular season player with no ability to step it up when it matters. VO is virtually better (and has more potential) in almost all categories, other then fighting, compared to Glass. Still expect him to start in the minors this year though.
