Don Smith - Gus Bodnar - Tom Hooper
Nick Libett - Bill Carson - Joe Carveth
Murray Craven - Mike Bullard (A) - Howie Meeker
Randy Burridge - Steve Rucchin (A) - Mark Hunter
Spares: Niklas Sundstrom (W), Danny Lewicki (LW), Ron Schock (C)
Jim McKenney - Bob Murdoch
Curt Giles (C) - Richard Matvichuk
Dan Hamhuis - Marek Zidlicky
Spares: Brendan Witt
Don Beaupre
Niklas Backstrom
PP:
Don Smith - Gus Bodnar - Tom Hooper
Jim Mckenney - Marek Zidlicky
Murray Craven - Mike Bullard - Joe Carveth
Curt Giles - Bob Murdoch
PK:
Steve Rucchin - Randy Burridge
Dan Hamhuis - Richard Matvichuk
Murray Craven - Nick Libbet
Curt Giles - Bob Murdoch
vs.
Detroit Red Wings
Coach: Jimmy Skinner
Andrew Brunette - Earl Reibel - Robert Reichel
Cory Stillman - Thomas Gradin - Doug Brown
Ulf Sterner - Vlad Golikov - Alex Golikov
Danis Zaripov - Sergei Zinoviev - Alexey Morozov
Ronnie Stern - Vladimir Ruzicka
Sergei Babinov - Antonin Stavjana
Rod Flett - Magnus Flett
Frantisek Kaberle - Larry Zeidel
Alex Motter - Jaro Spacek
There are quite a few players on the Red Wings that I don't know enough about to make a detailed comparison, but I'll share a couple thoughts.
Bodnar and Reibel are clearly the offensive catalysts in this series, and I don't think there is a major gap between them either way, when all factors are considered. Reibel had the better peak, and was a better goal scorer, though he certainly benefitted greatly from playing with Howe and Lindsay. Bodnar was the better playmaker, had a longer career as an effective player, and didn't play with linemates anywhere near as good as Reibel's. I guess it comes down to how much you value peak vs longevity and how much you discount someone for playing with legends.
Anyway I don't have time to do an in depth analysis, so I'll keep these brief. Keep in mind this is just the impression I get, not knowing much about a lot of the european players on the other team.
- Halifax has better scoring depth
- Halifax has a better defense
- Halifax has better goaltending & coaching
lol, seriously though, I'd like to hear some info on Detroit's third line, top 4 defensemen and goaltending before I try to make real comparisons. I may have time to look myself after work, doubt it though.
There are quite a few players on the Red Wings that I don't know enough about to make a detailed comparison, but I'll share a couple thoughts.
Bodnar and Reibel are clearly the offensive catalysts in this series, and I don't think there is a major gap between them either way, when all factors are considered. Reibel had the better peak, and was a better goal scorer, though he certainly benefitted greatly from playing with Howe and Lindsay. Bodnar was the better playmaker, had a longer career as an effective player, and didn't play with linemates anywhere near as good as Reibel's. I guess it comes down to how much you value peak vs longevity and how much you discount someone for playing with legends.
Anyway I don't have time to do an in depth analysis, so I'll keep these brief. Keep in mind this is just the impression I get, not knowing much about a lot of the european players on the other team.
- Halifax has better scoring depth
- Halifax has a better defense
- Halifax has better goaltending & coaching
lol, seriously though, I'd like to hear some info on Detroit's third line, top 4 defensemen and goaltending before I try to make real comparisons. I may have time to look myself after work, doubt it though.
I've asked Red to make a bio for Stavjana, let's hope he have time. I will make bios for most unknown myself tonight and tomorrow morning.
However I will say that "Honken" is a better goaltender than Beaupre and both of the Flett brothers are better than Matvichuk.
The Flett brothers are definitely under-appreciated. But the Irvin quote in your bio doesn't make sense; the crowd wouldn't be bewildered by a point man scoring from a lift - it was not uncommon and some point men were known to be quite adept at it. Also the idea that the cover was supposed to stay in his own end is fallacious - just read game reports from the era, or Art Farrell's book, and you'll know the cover was expected to rush the puck as well.
I'll also point out that Rod and Magnus played point and cover respectively for only three seasons together, from 1901 to 1903. For two seasons before that, they split the point position (playing half the games each) because Charley Johnstone was at cover. And before that it was Rod Flett and Fred Higginbotham.
Now that I look at it there's a whole lot of misinformation in that one quote from someone who should be a reputable source. That's what you get when you rely on 55-year-old memories.
The Flett brothers are definitely under-appreciated. But the Irvin quote in your bio doesn't make sense; the crowd wouldn't be bewildered by a point man scoring from a lift - it was not uncommon and some point men were known to be quite adept at it. Also the idea that the cover was supposed to stay in his own end is fallacious - just read game reports from the era, or Art Farrell's book, and you'll know the cover was expected to rush the puck as well.
I'll also point out that Rod and Magnus played point and cover respectively for only three seasons together, from 1901 to 1903. For two seasons before that, they split the point position (playing half the games each) because Charley Johnstone was at cover. And before that it was Rod Flett and Fred Higginbotham.
Now that I look at it there's a whole lot of misinformation in that one quote from someone who should be a reputable source. That's what you get when you rely on 55-year-old memories.
I, myself, rely on very old memories when judging players. Sometimes they are in error but not so much in error like you suggest Dick Irvins are. In any case even if there is a error in his quote I believe there were a commotion and the point of the quote is to show that Rod were skilled offensively.
We will always have to take such quotes with a grain of salt.
I definitely think more info on Stavjana and Honken would help Detroit's cause. I like Babinov - I should have voted for him as an All-Star but for some reason, I overlooked him when it came time to voting.
I definitely think more info on Stavjana and Honken would help Detroit's cause. I like Babinov - I should have voted for him as an All-Star but for some reason, I overlooked him when it came time to voting.
Definitely agree on Stavjana. I'd love to know more.
from SIHR I can see he played a ton for the Czechs internationally in the 80s... which means he was likely no worse than the hundreds of NHL defensemen who occupied #3-4 spots at the time... but was he better? and how much? that's what will determine if he was a mediocre or great pick. But the wealth of international experience and the time in which it occurred precludes it from being a bad one, IMO.
I thought we had some pretty good info on Honken already. He got my 2nd place vote after Paton!
I thought we had some pretty good info on Honken already. He got my 2nd place vote after Paton!
Do we? I must have been absent that day.
Edit: Oh, he's the same as Leif Holmqvist? I did not know that. I still wouldn't have voted for him over Bouchard, but I'd probably have thrown him my 3rd place All Star vote if I had known that.
Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 08-17-2011 at 05:11 PM.
I, myself, rely on very old memories when judging players. Sometimes they are in error but not so much in error like you suggest Dick Irvins are. In any case even if there is a error in his quote I believe there were a commotion and the point of the quote is to show that Rod were skilled offensively.
Rod wasn't a total zero offensively, but Magnus had a better record on the offensive side.
I totally forgot about Holmqvist when I voted for All Stars. He's definitely a top 4 goalie in this I think. How high, not sure. But he's up there. I looked into him a pretty decent amount whenever I was looking into Pettersson earlier on in the process. I came away pretty impressed.
This series was tough decision for me... Especially after I realized Honken is the same guy as Leif....
Looking at your team again, I see two factors that probably helped lead to your downfall.
1) You had several guys on your team who are unknown to most of us where you didn't provide bios - you had to expect it to be a tough sell. Historically, teams full of "unknowns" don't do very well in this thing.
2) You don't have many forwards who can do well battling for the puck in corners.
This series was tough decision for me... Especially after I realized Honken is the same guy as Leif....
Looking at your team again, I see two factors that probably helped lead to your downfall.
1) You had several guys on your team who are unknown to most of us where you didn't provide bios - you had to expect it to be a tough sell. Historically, teams full of "unknowns" don't do very well in this thing.
2) You don't have many forwards who can do well battling for the puck in corners.
My comment was more sarcasm than anything else.
I can't agree on your second remark though. Our whole second line can dig in the corners, Sterner on the second line while the 4th is a high energy, puck containing line.
I can't agree on your second remark though. Our whole second line can dig in the corners, Sterner on the second line while the 4th is a high energy, puck containing line.
1) Sterner is listed on the third line. On your first two lines, I see only Doug Brown as a credible puck winner and he's not exactly a power forward. Was Gradin gritty? Your first line definitely doesn't have a guy who can battle for the puck.
2) If you wanted people to buy your 4th line as a high energy, puck containing line, you really needed to do bios for Danis Zaripov and Sergei Zinoviev. And most of us are most familiar with what Morozov did in the NHL, where he was a relatively soft player.
1) Sterner is listed on the third line. On your first two lines, I see only Doug Brown as a credible puck winner and he's not exactly a power forward. Was Gradin gritty? Your first line definitely doesn't have a guy who can battle for the puck.
2) If you wanted people to buy your 4th line as a high energy, puck containing line, you really needed to do bios for Danis Zaripov and Sergei Zinoviev. And most of us are most familiar with what Morozov did in the NHL, where he was a relatively soft player.
1) The first line is missing some grit all though Brunette is pretty gritty.
Gradin was strong, he wasn't a regularly gritty player but he he did it when needed. I think there is a story on him somewhere on the internet most probably youtube when they are speaking of the greatest canucks. I recommended it for everyone.
Second line was a typo, I meant the third line.
2) I thought people who participated in the MLD followed hockey regularly. Zaripov and Zinoviev are not exactly unknowns allthough it might be hard to follow them in America.
All in all, I expected to lose as there weren't a bio for some of our key players and after seeing Iain lose even though providing bios and actively debating for his team it would seem that even if I provided bios I would've lost.
