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Old
09-09-2011, 09:38 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
OK lets pretend for a second that we get a couple vets inserted in the lineup.... what happens to DD, White
These are players that need a roster spot or we'll lose them. We're always whining about losing our young players but everytime we have a couple ready to come in we try and fill their spot with journeymen or aging vets.
Exactly. How do Weber and Emelin develop and get a spot if we do that?

At least if Weber falters and Emelin sucks we can still make a trade. If we assume they will suck and we sign some veteran D we waste cap space and then if they do pan out we're stuck with a #8D and less wiggle room to make a push at deadline.

I like what they're doing. There are a lot of what if's but if those what if's go away by deadline and we're a strong team we'll have a chance to become even stronger. I don't want some #4-5 veteran D getting in the way of that. We already have Space cadet at worst.

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09-09-2011, 09:54 AM
  #27
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I don't see a problem this season as I stated in a previous post in this thread:

With the following line up:

Cammalleri - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Kostitsyn - Eller - Desharnais
Darche - White - Moen
Blunden

Markov - Gorges
Gill - Subban
Spacek - Yemelin
Weber

Price
Budaj

If we make the playoffs (which I know we will), I would like Gauthier to pick up another work horse defenseman and some skill and size (both in the same player) up front to play on the top nine.

GO HABS GO!!!

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09-09-2011, 09:58 AM
  #28
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Having veterans around does the opposite. It doesn't stifle young player development it promotes it. It creates competition, provides younger players with a lot of help from guys who have gone through the ups and downs and brings stability. I think we're ok up front, but personally I think having Hammer around would have made me feel more at ease.

People will say that having Hammer will prevent young players from developing. Nothing could be further from the truth in my view. Having guys like that around helps younger players learn the ropes.

Not to mention should we lose Markov (and I'm no expert but that knee looked might weak on that Matt Cooke hit) you end up having to throw a guy like Weber in a position he's not ready for and it could actually be worse for him in the long run than if a veteran is there to help take up the slack.

Again, I really hope I'm wrong but I don't like not having Hamrlik around this year.

You have to be very patient with young players and putting them in important/crucial roles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I don't see a problem this season as I stated in a previous post in this thread:

With the following line up:

Cammalleri - Plekanec - Cole
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Kostitsyn - Eller - Desharnais
Darche - White - Moen
Blunden

Markov - Gorges
Gill - Subban
Spacek - Yemelin
Weber

Price
Budaj

If we make the playoffs (which I know we will), I would like Gauthier to pick up another work horse defenseman and some skill and size (both in the same player) up front to play on the top nine.

GO HABS GO!!!
See this looks and sounds great. But you have a guy who's never played a game in the NHL penciled in your 3rd D pairing. If he works out great. But there's no denying that's a pretty big question mark right there.


Last edited by overlords: 09-09-2011 at 10:19 AM.
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09-09-2011, 10:02 AM
  #29
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See this looks and sounds great. But you have a guy who's never played a game in the NHL penciled in your 3rd D pairing. If he works out great. But there's no denying that's a pretty big question mark right there.
You're acting as if he's 18 years old. He's been playing professionally for a number of years in Russia. He can definitely make the 3rd pairing.

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09-09-2011, 10:02 AM
  #30
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You're acting as if he's 18 years old. He's been playing professionally for a number of years in Russia. He can definitely make the 3rd pairing.
Well that settles that then.

Hope you're right. Would be a great story for the Habs. The NHL is not the KHL though.

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09-09-2011, 10:25 AM
  #31
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Imagine at the deadline Anaheim looks dead in the water and we trade them a 1st and a prospect for Saku and Teemu (both as rental UFAs, provided Teemu signs another 1 year deal).

Then we end up with

Cammy-Plecks-Selanne
Cole-Gomez-Gionta
Patches-Koivu-A Kost
DD - Eller - White/Moen/Darche
Cole should never play on the left side and Koivu is better than Gomez.

I could see the habs inviting Madden, but if he wanted to/they wanted to he would have been invited already and accepted, no ?

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09-09-2011, 10:32 AM
  #32
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You're acting as if he's 18 years old. He's been playing professionally for a number of years in Russia. He can definitely make the 3rd pairing.
There are plenty of good to great KHL veterans who fail to make the transition to the NHL. It's foolish to think Emelin isn't a question mark, in my view.

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09-09-2011, 10:35 AM
  #33
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There are plenty of good to great KHL veterans who fail to make the transition to the NHL. It's foolish to think Emelin isn't a question mark, in my view.
Agreed but it's also a little bit foolish to follow either extreme imo. He's shown he can play pro hockey for 5 years. Not saying he makes the transition but his style of play is best suited for NHL and not KHL, one might even think the KHL held him back production wise and thus due to his style it took him longer to adapt to the KHL style. I know it sounds a bit crazy but he's a player in my eyes best suited for smaller ice surfaces. It should magnify is areas of strength once he adjusts. Obviously he'll need to adjust having played on a much larger surface and having gotten used to that but once he does I think we'll have a solid player on our hands.

Of course it could go either way, but either extreme of "he'll 100% make it" or "100% not make it" is a little bit much. I don't see why given his style of play it would be an easy thing to determine in advance. It's really something that in my eyes is 50/50. He could also get home sick. You never really know until you try. He could play great and still bolt back to Russia.

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09-09-2011, 10:49 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
But you have a guy who's never played a game in the NHL penciled in your 3rd D pairing. If he works out great. But there's no denying that's a pretty big question mark right there.
I agree Emelin is a wild card, the things going in his favor are that he's been a regular in the RSL and KHL since he was 18, has played in 4 championship series over those 7 years, and has done well in international tournaments (WJC's and WC's) While there's a concern for how he will adjust for sure, the thing I like most is that his style of play could actually help him on the smaller ice. But we'll have to see how it goes for him when the preseason games get started. Should be fun to watch as I think he could end up being a fan favorite and quickly hated on the main boards as he loves to hit.

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09-09-2011, 11:00 AM
  #35
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There are plenty of good to great KHL veterans who fail to make the transition to the NHL. It's foolish to think Emelin isn't a question mark, in my view.
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Agreed but it's also a little bit foolish to follow either extreme imo. He's shown he can play pro hockey for 5 years. Not saying he makes the transition but his style of play is best suited for NHL and not KHL, one might even think the KHL held him back production wise and thus due to his style it took him longer to adapt to the KHL style. I know it sounds a bit crazy but he's a player in my eyes best suited for smaller ice surfaces. It should magnify is areas of strength once he adjusts. Obviously he'll need to adjust having played on a much larger surface and having gotten used to that but once he does I think we'll have a solid player on our hands.

Of course it could go either way, but either extreme of "he'll 100% make it" or "100% not make it" is a little bit much. I don't see why given his style of play it would be an easy thing to determine in advance. It's really something that in my eyes is 50/50. He could also get home sick. You never really know until you try. He could play great and still bolt back to Russia.
I think you must expect more from him. If he doesn't do better than, let's say, Yannick Weber, then you'd have to be disappointed. He likes to hit, will find himself using this style on a shorter rink, has been playing professionally for a few years (KHL is certainly better than the AHL) and got a contract that pretty much guarantees him a spot in the big league.

Not making the team or being considered 7th D has to be a fail. Even if you can justify it with preceding examples. Expectations must be high enough.

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09-09-2011, 11:06 AM
  #36
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I think you must expect more from him. If he doesn't do better than, let's say, Yannick Weber, then you'd have to be disappointed. He likes to hit, will find himself using this style on a shorter rink, has been playing professionally for a few years (KHL is certainly better than the AHL) and got a contract that pretty much guarantees him a spot in the big league.

Not making the team or being considered 7th D has to be a fail. Even if you can justify it with preceding examples. Expectations must be high enough.
I don't see why expectations should be high. I wouldn't be disappointed with Emelin as the number 7 defenseman. However, that may be due to my expectations for Weber: I believe him to be a good defenseman who should eventually be a top-4 puck mover, and could assert himself in such a role as early as this season (though, not holding my breath on that).

Until I see Emelin in the NHL, I have no expectations of him.

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09-09-2011, 11:18 AM
  #37
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I don't see why expectations should be high. I wouldn't be disappointed with Emelin as the number 7 defenseman. However, that may be due to my expectations for Weber: I believe him to be a good defenseman who should eventually be a top-4 puck mover, and could assert himself in such a role as early as this season (though, not holding my breath on that).

Until I see Emelin in the NHL, I have no expectations of him.
I used Weber's example because I see him as the 7th D on that team. I see a guy who's a little weak defensively, not much size, losing many battles along the boards, who's offensive upside is noticeable mainly on the PP.

A tough strong defensive player with a good shot, three years older (big difference between 22 and 25) should have the edge over Weber in my view.

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09-09-2011, 11:22 AM
  #38
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I used Weber's example because I see him as the 7th D on that team. I see a guy who's a little weak defensively, not much size, losing many battles along the boards, who's offensive upside is noticeable mainly on the PP.

A tough strong defensive player with a good shot, three years older (big difference between 22 and 25) should have the edge over Weber in my view.
Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree on our projections of Weber, and it'll be an interesting battle between the two for a top-6 role.

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09-09-2011, 11:30 AM
  #39
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Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree on our projections of Weber, and it'll be an interesting battle between the two for a top-6 role.
Let me give you 2 to 1: Diaz will come up before the end of the season and steal Weber's spot.

Of course, I got nothing against Weber. If he comes out shining and turns out to be a top 4, I'll be very impressed and happy. Right now, I don't see it.

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09-09-2011, 11:38 AM
  #40
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Let me give you 2 to 1: Diaz will come up before the end of the season and steal Weber's spot.
This is sounding more like a wager that ought to have consequences for the loser.

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09-09-2011, 11:43 AM
  #41
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I think Diaz will have a better camp than Yemelin but Yemelin will make the team as the 7th dman since management will probably give him all the chances possible to succeed.. I could see him staying with the team for about 25-30 games, then if he struggles too much and there is little to no improvement, thats gonna be Hamilton or a come back in the KHL.. If he does improve and becomes a valuable guy at the blueline, everyone will be happy..

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09-09-2011, 11:47 AM
  #42
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This is sounding more like a wager that ought to have consequences for the loser.
lol, sure, name it.

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09-09-2011, 12:03 PM
  #43
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Emelin is a wild card, but by definition, a wild card can go either way. Why are you only focusing on the negative. What if he became a solid top 4 instead of failing ? As I said, wild card, can go either way... from Markov's perfect Robin partner on the first pairing to the KHL...

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09-09-2011, 12:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
I used Weber's example because I see him as the 7th D on that team. I see a guy who's a little weak defensively, not much size, losing many battles along the boards, who's offensive upside is noticeable mainly on the PP.

A tough strong defensive player with a good shot, three years older (big difference between 22 and 25) should have the edge over Weber in my view.
That's how I see Weber as well.

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09-09-2011, 01:36 PM
  #45
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He's shown he can play pro hockey for 5 years.
Yes, in Russia. Sure, he's not a young junior kid stepping up to the big leagues, but still, the KHL and NHL are completely different and as pointed out by many already, it's not uncommon for established KHLer to struggle in the NHL. He is a question mark. As much of one as Markov's health. We just don't know, time will tell. He is not on par with Weber, who's undoubtedly ready for regular NHL action imo.

That doesn't mean we can't expect things from him. Will he fully adapt well in the NHL? No clue. But I still expect him to see some ice time, and probably flip flop with Weber. As much as people label him as a 3rd pairing guy, I'm not too sure he will spend most of his time on a 3rd pairing. I believe he will be used as a 5-7th Dman, which means lower minutes at ES, maybe a little bit on the Special Teams, but I can see him being tried on the right next to Markov at ES. There isn't a better mentor for this kid than Markov. So I'm pretty sure this will be experimented early on. If he has a very smooth transition, then who knows, more opportunities with partner juggling might happen. As of now though, I expect him to see some action alongside Markov, especially at camp.

Then again, Markov is coming back from two years of struggles, so giving him a youngster might not be the right move right from the bat. Might take a couple of month for him to find his own groove back first.

I guess we will see. One thing's for sure, if our key players remain healthy, this will be a very exciting season! Good thing I just got my PVR!

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09-09-2011, 01:45 PM
  #46
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Yes, in Russia. Sure, he's not a young junior kid stepping up to the big leagues, but still, the KHL and NHL are completely different and as pointed out by many already, it's not uncommon for established KHLer to struggle in the NHL. He is a question mark. As much of one as Markov's health. We just don't know, time will tell. He is not on par with Weber, who's undoubtedly ready for regular NHL action imo.

That doesn't mean we can't expect things from him. Will he fully adapt well in the NHL? No clue. But I still expect him to see some ice time, and probably flip flop with Weber. As much as people label him as a 3rd pairing guy, I'm not too sure he will spend most of his time on a 3rd pairing. I believe he will be used as a 5-7th Dman, which means lower minutes at ES, maybe a little bit on the Special Teams, but I can see him being tried on the right next to Markov at ES. There isn't a better mentor for this kid than Markov. So I'm pretty sure this will be experimented early on. If he has a very smooth transition, then who knows, more opportunities with partner juggling might happen. As of now though, I expect him to see some action alongside Markov, especially at camp.

Then again, Markov is coming back from two years of struggles, so giving him a youngster might not be the right move right from the bat. Might take a couple of month for him to find his own groove back first.

I guess we will see. One thing's for sure, if our key players remain healthy, this will be a very exciting season! Good thing I just got my PVR!
Not disagreeing but like I said in that post or another I'm basing it on his actual style of play being a better fit for smaller ice surfaces. For all we know he actually may have taken longer to develop in Russia than he would have here given the ice surface catering more to his style.

Of course I'm not saying there are any guarantees, even some of the best Russian players who can play in the NHL do get home sick or struggle as a result of other reasons. I just think he's a wild card and one with a ton of potential. More than a lot of people here think or give him credit for.

In my eyes I think he'll surprise us, that isn't to say I think he's a lock or anything

Also I don't believe it's fair to say he isn't on par or better than Weber just yet, and I'm a big fan of Weber too. We'll have to wait and see. I see him topping out as a top 4 D with a physical element to his game and bottoming out as back to Russia. Weber I see as a #4d with some offensive upside and PP specialty who could bottom out as a #7 but realistically I think he'll be able to stick as a #6 in the NHL.

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09-09-2011, 03:52 PM
  #47
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We have a balanced team - but are we any good? That's the question for me.

I'm worried about the coaching and the defense. Replacing a shotblocker who can carry #1 minutes is not going to be easy to do. Especially the shotblocking part. I have confidence Markov will be fine. Not sure why we didn't spend the money to keep Hammer. I like Gorges, but there's no comparison.

I don't like how Martin strayed from the trap when we had Boston on the ropes and their D turning teh puck over either. I understand the need for adjustments, but let them prove they can move the puck first... they did later on in the playoffs, so maybe he was right.

Coulda been: Markov/PK; Hammer/Spacek; Gill/Weber ---> or dump Spacek and sign Gorges... either way.

Worried that he's gonna have PK blocking shots on the kill to replace Hammer's blocks (hopefully Gorges can pick up the slack). Don't like Emelin from what I've seen of him so far and he takes a LOT of dumb penalties, which is already a problem for us. I'm sick of these fake aggression Euro guys we pick up. If a guy is going to the box, make it count and keep it clean. I can see Emelin getting us into a lot of trouble this year both with the refs and reputation-wise. A lot of teams will be gunning for us because of this kid (if he makes it). Which automatically makes me think of Markov's knee.

Don't like Kostitsyn and think you can't afford to have players like that on your team if you are serious about winning a Cup. I'd rather have a lesser skilled third liner who will bleed guts and win playoff games for us.

Worried we won't get Eller and Desharnais the support they need to make their magic. I prefer both of them to AK, but that will probably be the third line, so poor Eller will have to do all the work unless we roll 4 and use Desharnais as a go-between on both lines.

LOVE Cole. Not sure how much offense he adds, but he will be important in close games and in the playoffs when the space shrinks and he's still heading to the net like gangbusters and forechecking, hitting and digging out pucks. A big element we've been missing for DECADES. So he might not add to the quantity of numbers, but the numbers he puts up will be quality.

Pacioretty I think is a guy who will also take it to the net, but not so sure about his boardwork and strength on the puck. He's great when he's moving his legs with the puck tho and we have a lot of guys to follow him to the net.

Not worried about Gomez at all now that he'll have some wingers. Cammy will bounce back with a big year now that he's healthy.

If Patches and AK both step back, we have Eller or Desharnais chomping at the bit and that wouldn't bother me at all. I think they should do their best to see if Eller can be made into a scorer. That's what he was projected as in the draft and he certainly has the hands around the net.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 09-09-2011 at 06:08 PM.
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Old
09-09-2011, 04:08 PM
  #48
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Assuming we don't trade him I am very excited about the X factor Andrei Kostitsyn on a line with Eller. If the top 2 lines can be dangerous and I'm sure they will be, it'll be very exciting to see if Kosty and Lars can connect again. If these factors all fall in their best places I'll be very happy.

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09-09-2011, 04:56 PM
  #49
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I was just browsing the Leafs board, didn't comment, because it's too hysterical over there and I want don't my comments to lead to a banning, but they a poll which asks if the Leafs get in, who is out? and something like 141 people picked the habs, lol. Saying we are evenly matched with them.

I find it hilarious, but what can you do.

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09-09-2011, 05:01 PM
  #50
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Anyone else have a feeling if we're looking solid by deadline we may see one of the biggest trades happen of the last two decades?

There will be some quality pending UFA and cap space if all goes well.

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