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Where would you rank John Tortorella

View Poll Results: Where does Torts rank?
Top 3 9 6.87%
3-5 29 22.14%
5-10 69 52.67%
10-20 22 16.79%
20-30 2 1.53%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-09-2011, 11:36 AM
  #26
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by Mint Berry Crunch View Post
He's no Tom Renney...

Nah, but for real - I voted top 5-10. He gets a lot of crap from us, but he's a Stanley Cup winner & despite his constant line-shuffling, he knows how to build a team and stick with it. It's nice to finally have an identity and have it recognized by fans of other teams.
To this point, Tom Renney has been the more successful Rangers coach.

To expand on my post above, Renney is the tactician and Tortorella is the motivator; thet both lack in the others strengths greatly.

The fans love Tortorella because hes entertaining and theres a sense we could be better down the line.

Fact of the matter is, he hasnt matched Renney's success on the ice thus far as coach of the Rangers.

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09-09-2011, 11:37 AM
  #27
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I don't like the top3 option because I believe when you get to the top1-5 it really comes down to the players. Give any top coach the players like Crosby, Zetterberg, Lindstrom, Datsyuk, Letang, Malkin, etc or not have those guys and how do you say this guy is a number 2 or number 5? IMO it should be a top5 coach and that's it and for that reason I chose 1-3 because I believe Torts is a top5 Coach in this league.

He works his bench better then anyone. He assesses talent at an elite level. He has a solid game plan which he is capable and willing to adjust to meet his player's abilities and the demands of the game. He commands respect from his players and has them maintain an elite level of conditioning. He's successful, with every team.

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09-09-2011, 11:54 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
He works his bench better then anyone. He assesses talent at an elite level. He has a solid game plan which he is capable and willing to adjust to meet his player's abilities and the demands of the game. He commands respect from his players and has them maintain an elite level of conditioning. He's successful, with every team.
You're lucky I am at work and dont really have time, because every (over the top) superlative you listed about Tortorella can be debunked quite easily.

The guy is a good coach - when hes an *******, he can be a bad coach. Hes not a guy that strikes me as a great coach, especially when looking at his time with the Rangers.

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09-09-2011, 12:05 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You're lucky I am at work and dont really have time, because every (over the top) superlative you listed about Tortorella can be debunked quite easily.

The guy is a good coach - when hes an *******, he can be a bad coach. Hes not a guy that strikes me as a great coach, especially when looking at his time with the Rangers.
This season will be the deciding factor.

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09-09-2011, 12:17 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post

He works his bench better then anyone. He assesses talent at an elite level. He has a solid game plan which he is capable and willing to adjust to meet his player's abilities and the demands of the game. He commands respect from his players and has them maintain an elite level of conditioning. He's successful, with every team.
I (mostly) agree with what you've said, but I think the bolded is going too far. I think Torts is very good at identifying who is playing effectively on any given night, but I don't think there's much basis for saying that he can "assess talent" at any particular level. He's a head coach, not a scout.

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09-09-2011, 12:39 PM
  #31
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I'd say he's 5-10 or so. It's hard to judge coaches because an absolutely spectacular coach can fail miserably if he has a team that doesn't fit his style of play or personality, and vice versa. I would for example say that Ted Nolan is a really good coach, but he seems to struggle with authority figures and hasn't really got a fair chance.

Overall though I think Tort's definitely a top10 coach, maybe, MAYBE even top5.

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09-09-2011, 12:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
To this point, Tom Renney has been the more successful Rangers coach.

To expand on my post above, Renney is the tactician and Tortorella is the motivator; thet both lack in the others strengths greatly.

The fans love Tortorella because hes entertaining and theres a sense we could be better down the line.

Fact of the matter is, he hasnt matched Renney's success on the ice thus far as coach of the Rangers.
I'd disagree to that point.
Regular season winning Renney won 164 out of 327 games that's a 50.2%. Tortorella has won 94 out of 185 games, that's a 50.8% winning percent.

In 5 seasons, Renney missed the playoffs, lost in 1st, lost in 2nd twice, and was fired.

In 3 seasons, Tortorella lost in the first round twice and missed once, is expected to perform well in his 4th season and has yet to be fired.

I'd say to date, they've been fairly comparable.

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09-09-2011, 01:06 PM
  #33
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Reneny also had Jagr and his buddies who he gave free reign to go crazy and do what they could do. He had access to one of the best players of the last decade plus, a guy who could almost highhandedly win games and carry the team on his back (well, with Lundqvist's help).

When Jagr left, Renney faltered...which isn't a huge surprise either but my point is basically that for all the praise Renney gets as some great tactician, a lot of his success came from just letting Jagr do his thing.

Of course he also helped institute the "collapse in front of your goalie and block a ton of shots" model of defense that everyone in the league has taken up (I swear the Rangers did it more than anyone coming out of the lockout and teams picked up on it after that year), but his offensive tactics weren't anything special and the breakout was always horrific.

Renney was a pretty good coach (hey, at least he recognized he should just let Jagr do what he needed to do) but his biggest value to the Rangers organization was helping to bring in the culture of building through the draft and developing your own prospects.

Tortorella has realistically only had 2 full years, and it was just last year that we saw the team taking shape as "his" team. I like a lot of the things he does, though I worry a little bit that his impatience with skilled players can be a problem. But that impatience seems to mainly apply to guys who want to play all fancy and turn the puck over a lot, since he seems pretty cool with Gaborik for the most part (unless he's not scoring).

But...I need to see what the team can do this year before I really make up my mind about what Tortorella has done as a coach. Like I said, I like the direction the team is going now, I just need to see it use the talented players it has.

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09-09-2011, 01:07 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
I (mostly) agree with what you've said, but I think the bolded is going too far. I think Torts is very good at identifying who is playing effectively on any given night, but I don't think there's much basis for saying that he can "assess talent" at any particular level. He's a head coach, not a scout.
Dubinsky to the wing, not a center was a Tortorella move. Torts recognizes Dubinsky's talents as a winger.

How many other coaches have the courage to play Brian Boyle the minutes like he did down the stretch? Only a coach who recognizes the talent, capabilities, and trust in a player does that.

In order to be successful with a youth movement you need a coach willing to participate in it. Part of that willingness is the ability to identify the youth you have. Some coaches can't see players and how they fit into the lineup Tortorella can. Jr and minor leaguers don't always move vertically as they transition from league to league, scorers become grinders, centers to wing, etc. It's often their coach that help them navigate that process and help them fit that role that best suites them at that next level. Tortorella recognizes those skills, trusts his players, and plays his players accordingly.

I've criticized other coaches for not recognizing the talents of some of his young players and repeatedly relying on overpaid veterans who weren't getting the job done because it was the safe option.

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09-09-2011, 01:10 PM
  #35
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I voted 10-20. Nothing special, but not a complete fool either imo. He has his strengths for sure, but also his weaknesses. Perhaps with more organization he could be top 10. I can't believe some people went top 5 and above on this. Can we please get past the first round before we do that?

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09-09-2011, 01:12 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You're lucky I am at work and dont really have time, because every (over the top) superlative you listed about Tortorella can be debunked quite easily.

The guy is a good coach - when hes an *******, he can be a bad coach. Hes not a guy that strikes me as a great coach, especially when looking at his time with the Rangers.
I feel bad for the people who can't be excited about the best coach the Rangers have had in decades coaching the best team the Rangers have had since the 90s with a real chance to be successful.

It's a great time to be a Ranger fan!

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09-09-2011, 01:14 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
In 5 seasons, Renney missed the playoffs, lost in 1st, lost in 2nd twice, and was fired.
are you seriously counting that?

I don't think have the energy for another Renney debate. I was wrong. Renney clearly was holding back this offensive juggernaut waiting to happen. Redden, as predicted, turned his career around under Torts. Renney deserves no credit for Jagr's excellent play in 2005-06. Renney deserves all the blame for Jagr's decline at age 35. In 2005-06, Renney rode the coattails of Jagr and Lundqvist. In 2009-2010, Torts got excellent performances out of Gaborik and Lundqvist and should be praised accordingly. In 2010-11, Torts deserves praise for his team succeeding even with his star players pathetic performance (of course not Tortorella's fault in any way).

I'll stop there.

But overall, I'm happy with Tortorella.

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09-09-2011, 01:15 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I feel bad for the people who can't be excited about the best coach the Rangers have had in decades coaching the best team the Rangers have had since the 90s with a real chance to be successful.

It's a great time to be a Ranger fan!
It could be down the line, but I go by success first, praise later. We haven't done anything yet.

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09-09-2011, 01:16 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I feel bad for the people who can't be excited about the best coach the Rangers have had in decades coaching the best team the Rangers have had since the 90s with a real chance to be successful.

It's a great time to be a Ranger fan!
I'm not quite sure this team is better than some of the Jagr lead teams but maybe I have too fond a nostalgia for some of that. Their high end skill was nice, though I think the current teams depth is better.

I can't help but vaguely worry that Richards and Gaborik could struggle, but hopefully that won't be the case

edit: where did Renney's rep as a great tactician come from anyways? I'm not saying he's clueless and a terrible coach at all...like I said, I think he's pretty good, but if I'm not mistaken this is also the guy that refused to do any line matching and juggled his lines at least as much as Tortorella does, yet Tortorella gets complaints for that (to be fair, i dont' think line juggling is that big of a deal in the end, shouldn't really be a mark against either of them)

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09-09-2011, 01:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
To this point, Tom Renney has been the more successful Rangers coach.

To expand on my post above, Renney is the tactician and Tortorella is the motivator; thet both lack in the others strengths greatly.

The fans love Tortorella because hes entertaining and theres a sense we could be better down the line.

Fact of the matter is, he hasnt matched Renney's success on the ice thus far as coach of the Rangers.
The day Tom Renny was fired, I was clicking my heels together out of pure joy. He may be a good hockey man, but he shouldn't be a coach for any team-he belongs in a management job. The thing I despised about Renny's style was his piss poor handling of young players, the fact that he never held any player accountable for lousy play(he would keep on trotting out malek when everybody was screaming for him to be scrarched) and the freakin "4-1" he would resort to when the rangers were up 2-1 going into the 3rd period. It was always the "status quo" with him and it really sucked to watch. Also, his postgame press conferences were frustrating and mortifying as Renny would look for a silver lining from every lousy performance and he would placate the media and press who loved him to death bc he was "such a swell guy.". Thank God he's gone. As for Torts, I would put him in or just outside the top 5 coaches in the game. I do agree with you that Torts is not much of a tactician though.

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09-09-2011, 02:04 PM
  #41
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I voted 3-5

I would have put him in the top 3 except for his explosions that I think he still needs to work on. So far though I'm very happy with Torts as coach.

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09-09-2011, 02:06 PM
  #42
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He's about 4-5.

The work he has done with our youth has been just remarkable.

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09-09-2011, 03:19 PM
  #43
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He is better than any coach on the list who has yet to win a Stanley Cup. Those guys never reached their goal.

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09-09-2011, 08:11 PM
  #44
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Clearly elite. Has a Stanley Cup which many on this list do not have. To me Babcock is the best, no argument but after that there's a group of 4-5 elite coaches (I believe Bylsma and Tippett are two best) and Torts' is in that group. Barry Trotz has won only one playoff series in 13 years. And whoever mentioned Bruce Boudreau obviolusly misread the question.

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09-09-2011, 08:49 PM
  #45
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if you were to rank him #3 for arguments sake, which box do you check?

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09-09-2011, 09:28 PM
  #46
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I voted 10-20 because I can't put him in the elite category. He's done a decent job, nothing special, and the truth like other have mentioned is the guy is a above par motivator but a below par tactician.
I've seen us lose games because he was out coached, I can't think of a game we won where I felt like he out coached his opponent.
What I've seen to this date with the Rangers is when the team is going and the troops are motivated they play big, when the team isn't going, I haven't seen any tweaks or adjustments that have ever produced anything but confusion.
I would never say that any coach could have won a cup with Torts Tampa team, but that was not a group of misfits he was coaching, that team was stacked with talent, I still haven't seen the proof that he could be a difference maker as a coach beyond the motivation factor. I'd like to see some games where I feel like he adjusted and produced a positive result. Sometimes it seems like he's so stubborn that by the time he's willing to change something up its too late, or he just starts grasping at straws.
I'd put him somewhere around 12, better than a large chunk of the league, but a step below the top coaches.

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09-10-2011, 12:56 AM
  #47
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if you were to rank him #3 for arguments sake, which box do you check?
haha good point, that was supposed to say 4-5...my bad

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09-10-2011, 11:51 AM
  #48
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Bylsma took a Malkin and Crosby less Pens team and kept them winning. Trotz didn't have much to work with either that team was basically the WC's equivalent to the Rangers on offense.
This is the stupidest argument as to why Bylsma is a good coach and I never understood it. Does everyone think the Pens are just the Isles lite without Crosby and Malkin? People act like having a team that's, what, 3 years removed from a Cup winning games is some great feat. I think if he was actually a GREAT coach, he would have managed to make it out of the first round last year.

Now I can understand why Trotz is considered a good coach.

As for Torts I would put him somewhere in the 5-8 range.

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09-10-2011, 01:08 PM
  #49
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No idea

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09-10-2011, 01:10 PM
  #50
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This is the stupidest argument as to why Bylsma is a good coach and I never understood it. Does everyone think the Pens are just the Isles lite without Crosby and Malkin? People act like having a team that's, what, 3 years removed from a Cup winning games is some great feat. I think if he was actually a GREAT coach, he would have managed to make it out of the first round last year.

Now I can understand why Trotz is considered a good coach.

As for Torts I would put him somewhere in the 5-8 range.
The Pens are a good team w/o Crosby and Malkin, but they werent NEAR as good as their record showed. Bylsma very much deserved his J.A. Award.

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