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09-09-2011, 11:44 PM
  #101
peter sullivan
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
You spend more money when its appropriate: i.e. when the team has developed it's corps sufficiently to be a playoff team and have a chance at a cup. You spend to keep your corps and to suppliment that corps with players that address your weaknesses. You don't spend to appease your fanbase when it doesn't help the bottom line, a competitive, winning team.

Now is the time to evaluate the players we have on the roster and in the system. The Wellwood deal is good because The Jets knew that they were weak on the draw and at C in general, and they addressed that in a very financially and cap responsible way (cap in the aspect of not signing a player with a long contract, not specifically dollar amount).
i agree with this as well....if he fills a need then awesome....but what he is paid is irrelevant to that...he doesnt fill the need any more because he is cheap...

in my opinion you address the issues when you have them....not when you have a chance at the cup.....this is a good young team but it has played 4 playoff gams in its history...the time is now to address the reasons why.

i am not saying they should spend like drunk sailors to make the fans happy...i am questioning the evaluation of this move based on perceived value instead of comparison to our competitor's level of talent at that same position.

i am not sold that a 20 point KHLer is solving our weakness up the middle to be honest but that is another debate....

i dont know why this is the time to evaluate the players in the system...this isnt an expansion team....the weaknesses are pretty obvious.

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09-09-2011, 11:45 PM
  #102
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I would argue that a 20 point guy at 700k IS more valuable than a 20 point guy being paid 1.5. On the ice they are identical, but in todays NHL value is also determined by what a players contract allows you to do. In our case we don't NEED the extra 800k, but it does ALLOW us to use it.

I understand that their production is identical, but my view of player value extends beyond on ice production.

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09-09-2011, 11:45 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
wpgsilver: i totally agree....i am not saying we should pay 20 point guys $3m....im saying that 20 point guys are no more valuable because they are cheap.....he is being evaluated on a graduated scale of economic value, when he should be evaluated on how much better he is than our opposition's third line centre.

if he is better than the third line centre on our competitor's then i applaud this move....if he is worse, but cheaper, then i am critical.

nobody is saying we should overpay...im saying we should be hoping for the best players possible regardless of salary.
You can't just compare our 3rd line centre with another team's 3rd line centre. You have to look at what we have available on our roster NOW. Is he a better option than anyone we have for that spot? Players don't just grow on trees, you have to aquire them. Wellwood might have been the best option for us right now.

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09-09-2011, 11:53 PM
  #104
peter sullivan
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
You can't just compare our 3rd line centre with another team's 3rd line centre. You have to look at what we have available on our roster NOW. Is he a better option than anyone we have for that spot? Players don't just grow on trees, you have to aquire them. Wellwood might have been the best option for us right now.
absolutely....i agree...if he is better than what we have and we have made our team better because of this move, then awesome...that is very much what is important and what i have been saying all along....on ice value not payroll value.

my only point is what he makes is not relevant to that debate....

my unrelated observation is that we have not addressed the real weaknesses of this team this off season, but hopefully a young guy or two makes the step.


wpgsilver, i might agree if the cap was at all an issue.


anyways...i dont want to beat it to death (might be too late)...thanks for the good debate guys.....lets just start playing for goodness sake!...i've been waiting 15 years!

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09-10-2011, 01:42 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
absolutely....i agree...if he is better than what we have and we have made our team better because of this move, then awesome...
Id' say you have there peter. Wellwood's an extremely useful (and gutsy) little player. A lot of people were sorry to see him leave Vancouver a couple of years ago, and its debatable whether or not the problems in Toronto were of his own making (weight & conditioning mainly). He's only 28, is smart, plenty of Moxy. Very interesting player to watch. I dont know what he did in San Jose' or the 'K' but trust me, you guys got a real diamond in the rough there.

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09-10-2011, 01:52 AM
  #106
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Why has Welly been let go by like 3 teams?

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09-10-2011, 02:37 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
Why has Welly been let go by like 3 teams?
Toronto: Was performing stellar with sundin, but after his injury he never quite got back to form. Wellwood was in the hot seat when his conditioning went into question.

Vancouver: When first acquired he was a decent 3rd line center. Solid faceoffs and a amazing playoff performance. The next year he was a healthy scratch for most of the season. He has holes defensively and Vancouver decided to fill the gap with a defensive minded third liner like Malhotra.

San Jose: Didn't watch much of his play as a shark, but from what I hear from shark fans he was a pretty good at his role. He entered later in the season only playing 35 games, but he did pot 5 goals and have 8 assists and was a +/- 10. With Sharks loaded with talented and younger centers, Wellwood didn't fall into place with their plans.

Wellwood is a Jet now, but for how long?

-Only a year if he slacks off again he will be scratched or released.

or

-He will play stellar, prove us wrong (or right)and put up decent numbers earning him a 2 year contract extension.

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09-10-2011, 11:49 AM
  #108
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Vancouver and San Jose were contenders when Wellwood joined them.

While he did play an important role, he was pretty low on the totem pole compared to other players that needed to be re-signed.

San Jose in particular would probably have resigned him if they had space.

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09-10-2011, 06:21 PM
  #109
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Wellwood played W with Pavelski and Mitchell on the Shark's 3rd. He fit his role their perfectly. If you're expecting a 2nd line 50+ point player, he won't be it but given the right linemates he is capable of 30-35. Has great hands and amazing puck possesion by using smart positional play.

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09-10-2011, 06:32 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Wellwood played W with Pavelski and Mitchell on the Shark's 3rd. He fit his role their perfectly. If you're expecting a 2nd line 50+ point player, he won't be it but given the right linemates he is capable of 30-35. Has great hands and amazing puck possesion by using smart positional play.
He won't get 35 points. But who knows. I used to like the guy back in his Leaf days.

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09-10-2011, 07:18 PM
  #111
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How lacking do the other area's of your game have to be if your smart, have great hands and puck possession.. and can be relied on for 30 points..

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09-10-2011, 09:24 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
How lacking do the other area's of your game have to be if your smart, have great hands and puck possession.. and can be relied on for 30 points..
Footspeed and Size...

He's listed at 5'10, but is not 5'10 by any means. He's a small statured player who possesses the intelligence and hands needed for the game but not the speed or size. You see them come into the NHL a ton and gone the next minute. Wellwood seems to be making a career out of it (just barely ) so good for him.

He rarely loses a battle on the boards which is impressive due to his size, just good anticipation and smarts. The guy uses one of the shortest sticks you'll see and he'll use it to deke in and go top shelf extremely close to the goalie, looks slick.

Vancouver's 3rd line was quite different with him around (Demitra and Bernier), he doesn't fit in with our current style, but I'd like to see him do well. He adapted his game last season with the Sharks and was a decent winger, he was on pace for 30ish points, if Burmistrov ends up centering the 3rd line it would be a decent line with him and Fehr.

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09-10-2011, 09:51 PM
  #113
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I was glad to see the Jets back in the Peg and I was hoping for good things, but Wellwood? This guy can dazzle alright, but only when there's nobody around him. He's had his chances and proved he couldn't do it. Sorry but this is not the way to go! The Jets would be better off by giving a young guy a chance.

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09-10-2011, 09:58 PM
  #114
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During Chevy's press conference yesterday, one of the reporters asked if signing Wellwood on Sep 9 "smacks a little bit of desperation." Couldn't make out who was asking the question. Pretty ballsy question if you ask me. Anyone know who asked it?

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09-10-2011, 10:02 PM
  #115
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During Chevy's press conference yesterday, one of the reporters asked if signing Wellwood on Sep 9 "smacks a little bit of desperation." Couldn't make out who was asking the question. Pretty ballsy question if you ask me. Anyone know who asked it?
I caught that too, I think Chevy took it as the team being desperate. I personally thought the reporter was asking if Wellwood agreeing to a 1 yr 700k contract a week before training camp was desperation on his part.
I could be wrong, I just figured no one would make such a bold assertion.

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09-10-2011, 10:10 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by AndersUlfBobby View Post
During Chevy's press conference yesterday, one of the reporters asked if signing Wellwood on Sep 9 "smacks a little bit of desperation." Couldn't make out who was asking the question. Pretty ballsy question if you ask me. Anyone know who asked it?
I'm hoping some of the media will ask the tough questions this year. I think there's a chance the fans will be fairly lenient this first year or so. I want to see management make this team competitive as soon as the young guys are developed. At worst, this team should be a playoff team in 2 years.


Going off of "TLinden16's" comments on Wellwood, he sounds similar to Colby Armstrong with a little less offense. Armstrong is slow, but strong on the puck and good on the boards. Maybe not the hands of Wellwood but Army's getting paid $3 mill in Toronto on the 3rd line and we got Wellwood for $700k to play on the same line.

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09-10-2011, 10:17 PM
  #117
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Haha, well I have two. Hammer_Slammer is the personal one and JetsFly2gether is the other one.
Well, following both. You can tell I grew up in Vancouver by my username on twitter.

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09-10-2011, 10:48 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by goalpost View Post
I was glad to see the Jets back in the Peg and I was hoping for good things, but Wellwood? This guy can dazzle alright, but only when there's nobody around him. He's had his chances and proved he couldn't do it. Sorry but this is not the way to go! The Jets would be better off by giving a young guy a chance.
You need players in your bottom 6 who have NHL experience and an idea in their own end. Young players don't have this. Plus Wellwood can win draws, something we need.

He makes sense for the Jets.

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09-10-2011, 11:22 PM
  #119
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Going off of "TLinden16's" comments on Wellwood, he sounds similar to Colby Armstrong with a little less offense. Armstrong is slow, but strong on the puck and good on the boards. Maybe not the hands of Wellwood but Army's getting paid $3 mill in Toronto on the 3rd line and we got Wellwood for $700k to play on the same line.
Not close sorry. Welly doesn't always shy away from contact but isn't a physical player at all I remember seeing him attempt a check and bouncing right off the player. He's good defensively because he is quick with his stick and can predict plays. Armstrongs overpaid but is a gritty and tough 3rd liner who goes to the net. Wellwood is unique as a player and his style of play is tough to find an ideal fit in a lineup. thus why he bounces around so much.

Wellwood-Demitra-Bernier was a mix and match line that performed great, same goes for welwood-Pavelski-Mitchell. I see him being able to fit with Fehr and Maxwell/Burmi fine.


Last edited by TLinden16: 09-10-2011 at 11:32 PM.
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09-11-2011, 09:09 AM
  #120
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Congrats on landing Welly, guys. At certain times of his stay in each of the three cities he's played in, he was a fan fave. At other times he kinda dissapeared and people forgot about him somewhat, but what the heck do you want? You can't expect 3rd liners to be superstars and hate them if they don't live up to those inflated dreams. He's well worth what he's being paid, and you'll ADORE him if you can get to the playoffs. He's all hustle, and there is a reason they call him "Magic mittens".

Wellwood has been one of my fave players in the NHL for years now, and I'll be watching Winnipeg games now and then just to keep an eye on him.

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09-11-2011, 12:30 PM
  #121
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He's got experience on winning teams, one of which being Vancouver, he fills slot of holes that we are needing to fill, and he's only going to cost us 700k. Hopefully he plays hard, and earns himself third line play, and maybe a year or two more while the young guys on the rock develop.

We know it's going to be a season where we are looking at what we need to address, sort of get a feel for things, so he should help, at least for a season, hopefully longer.

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09-11-2011, 12:42 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Not close sorry. Welly doesn't always shy away from contact but isn't a physical player at all I remember seeing him attempt a check and bouncing right off the player. He's good defensively because he is quick with his stick and can predict plays. Armstrongs overpaid but is a gritty and tough 3rd liner who goes to the net. Wellwood is unique as a player and his style of play is tough to find an ideal fit in a lineup. thus why he bounces around so much.

Wellwood-Demitra-Bernier was a mix and match line that performed great, same goes for welwood-Pavelski-Mitchell. I see him being able to fit with Fehr and Maxwell/Burmi fine.
SHould have added without the physical edge. They are possession type players that are good along the boards, solid defensively, and below average skaters.

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09-11-2011, 02:45 PM
  #123
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Solid signing for $700k. Can't go wrong at that price.

Wellwood's kind of an odd duck. Combines elite puck-handling skills and excellent faceoff ability with a complete lack of physicality and an intermittent invisibility mode that makes Heatley's recent playoff performance look like all-world dominance. He'll wow you one night by maneuvering through an entire team with the puck on a string then for the next 20 games you'll be staring at the tv waiting for his return. Very smart player, sees the ice very well, but lack of work ethic and fitness continue to plague him. He does crank it up for the playoffs and one thing he'll never do is bite you in the ass by taking stupid penalties. Would be in the running for the Lady Byng if he ever played consistently enough to be noticeable, and would be a shining offensive threat if he busted his hump shift-in shift-out every game. Would much rather curl up with a good book than hit the gym. More mild-mannered than a narcoleptic on downers, and kinda has that lovable puppy-dog thing going on.

Decent for the price. Hope he works out for you guys.

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09-11-2011, 03:40 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by AugustBurnsRed View Post
How lacking do the other area's of your game have to be if your smart, have great hands and puck possession.. and can be relied on for 30 points..
Conditioning, consistency, and confidence my friend. The 3 C's which he lacks big-time.

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09-11-2011, 05:18 PM
  #125
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Wellwood is only getting $700,000. How many good 3rd line centres make less?

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