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Orr and Coffey - Switch them!

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Old
09-10-2011, 07:59 PM
  #26
Canadiens1958
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Relative Strengths

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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
While i agree with the spirit of your post and the 10-15% decline for points for Coffey and Phil not sure Wayne could have ever topped the 230 or Orr the 150 point mark, maybe once each but man those totals would have been very hard to get to IMO.

Wayne's peak seasons were 215,212 and 205

Orr's were 139,135 and 120

Coffey's were 138, 125 and 121

but who knows maybe in a perfect seasons and storm Orr finds 11 more points and cracks 150 and Wayne finds 15 more points and cracks 230 but that would be over their best perfect season already and I think it would be highly unlikely.
Comes down to relative strengths. Coffey was not the master of the offensive blue line that Orr was. Esposito did not control the area behind the net or red line the way Gretzky did. The hockey world saw the way Esposito and Orr combined to create space for scoring opportunities within the slot and back to the blueline and the resulting ability of Orr to roam the perimeter or drive the net.

Combining Orr with Gretzky would create more open space from the blue line to behind the red line with both generating more chances. Esposito was basically a closer, Coffey could generate and close but not at the Orr level, whereas Gretzky and orr could generate and close at the highest level.

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09-10-2011, 08:24 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Comes down to relative strengths. Coffey was not the master of the offensive blue line that Orr was. Esposito did not control the area behind the net or red line the way Gretzky did. The hockey world saw the way Esposito and Orr combined to create space for scoring opportunities within the slot and back to the blueline and the resulting ability of Orr to roam the perimeter or drive the net.

Combining Orr with Gretzky would create more open space from the blue line to behind the red line with both generating more chances. Esposito was basically a closer, Coffey could generate and close but not at the Orr level, whereas Gretzky and orr could generate and close at the highest level.
Agreed... Orr and Gretzky were innovators, they were creative, highly adaptive and possess two of the highest on-ice intelligences in hockey. Both would be able to adapt and excel with each other, just as they did with much lesser linemates. It's more of a challenge to think of what they couldn't do together than what they could.

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09-10-2011, 08:58 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Comes down to relative strengths. Coffey was not the master of the offensive blue line that Orr was. Esposito did not control the area behind the net or red line the way Gretzky did. The hockey world saw the way Esposito and Orr combined to create space for scoring opportunities within the slot and back to the blueline and the resulting ability of Orr to roam the perimeter or drive the net.

Combining Orr with Gretzky would create more open space from the blue line to behind the red line with both generating more chances. Esposito was basically a closer, Coffey could generate and close but not at the Orr level, whereas Gretzky and orr could generate and close at the highest level.
That sums up my thoughts. Couldn't have said it better actually. Orr was better at getting the puck into the other teams zone at will, and better at keeping it in there. Gretzky's ability to create his own offense was light years above Esposito who made his living infront of the net. The playmaking abilities that Orr and Gretzky alone possess would allow them to reach numbers unfathomable. Hardy, is it really that hard to believe that each of these players could have scored 15 more points than their career highs if they were playing together? I'd say it could go beyond that, but it's all hypothetical of course.

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09-10-2011, 11:12 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono Trigger View Post
That sums up my thoughts. Couldn't have said it better actually. Orr was better at getting the puck into the other teams zone at will, and better at keeping it in there. Gretzky's ability to create his own offense was light years above Esposito who made his living infront of the net. The playmaking abilities that Orr and Gretzky alone possess would allow them to reach numbers unfathomable. Hardy, is it really that hard to believe that each of these players could have scored 15 more points than their career highs if they were playing together? I'd say it could go beyond that, but it's all hypothetical of course.
I think it would be quite hard for either or both of them to up their point totals bye the 11 and 15 point margin in a season yes and for a variety of factors.

For one thing Coffey never had any problems on gaining the zone when he played and while Orr was a better talent there would still be only one puck to go around.

For all 3 players I listed those 3 seasons were their absolute best and they all played under exceptionally beneficial circumstances with Orr in an even expanding NHL and for a team that allowed him to play the way he wanted.

As for the Oilers they just tried to outscore everyone. But lets not forget that Wayne's peak for PPG was at age 25 and the league was changing, making it a little bit harder for him to score (at a pace of around .3 PPG).

The window of possibility on an Orr Wayne Oiler team in the early 80's would have been very small indeed and maybe even only possible in the 84-86 window and I will stand by my original opinion that it would be highly unlikely.

We often see present days circumstances when certain players go to certain teams and we expect an increase in production and the reality is often less than what it looks like on paper before the season starts.


Adding the extra 11 and 15 points respectfully for each player when we already know their peaks is a larger task than it looks like on paper IMO.

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Old
09-11-2011, 12:23 AM
  #30
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I'm trying but I can't wrap my head around this...all I can think of is Coffey embarrassing himself with his final (abbreviated) NHL season with the Bruins.....it was horrendous and I just can't get past it.

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