HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Still ~4+ Million under the cap... what do?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-12-2011, 09:26 AM
  #51
Marc-E-
Registered User
 
Marc-E-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Posts: 1,447
vCash: 500
One guy I would like to add is Paul Gaustad to the fourth line. We heard some rumours that Buffalo needs to make some move to be under the cap. But I doubt Buffalo trades Gaustad to the Habs.

Marc-E- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 09:49 AM
  #52
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,054
vCash: 500
As I said, other than Madden at a cheap deal, I don't see the point in signing any other UFAs. We'd be better off hanging to that cap.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 10:00 AM
  #53
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I'd be satisfied with standing pat *IF* management had already approached some of the likely candidates out there, but determined that those players didn't want to play for us (on the kinds of terms I'd be thinking of, that is). We have $5M in cap space with openings up front and on D. Guys like Madden, Winchester, McCabe even, Hannan before he evapourated, etc, etc, all the usual suspects... if you could have any 2 of them on 1-year deals and still have $3M+ in cap space free for all this deadline contingency usage that people are talking about... shouldn't it be a no-brainer? $3M still gets you any player in the league at the deadline.

I'll just assume that Gauthier approached a variety of these players, but found that they either didn't want to come to Montreal, or didn't want 1-year sub-$1M deals, or some such. C'est la vie.

I'm a little surprised that so many people are so sold on the deadline acquisition issue, however. What if:
a) Habs aren't looking like a contender at the deadline, or
b) Habs don't make a significant acquisition at the deadline, or
c) Habs feel some kind of internal pressure to make a significant acquisition at the deadline and in so doing make a terrible trade for a player who ends up not making a difference and gives up some of the youth elements that are so cherished around here in the process...

Etc. Then what was the cap space good for? It's all what-ifs. I would always rather see the team spend the money up front in a clear attempt to make the team better from Day 1.
Gauthier must break the cycle of sending draft picks away in temp replacement and third liner deals. I suspect some of the players mentioned above will be on the dialing end of the phone call once the leaves change colours. With no prospects to speak of the trading options are limited, PG's only improvement options are in the late September value menu deals.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 10:21 AM
  #54
McNuts
Registered User
 
McNuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,825
vCash: 500
I say we keep it and IF our team looks like it has a good shot at the ECF, then make a move at the trade deadline with the cap room

McNuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 10:22 AM
  #55
La Grosse Tendresse
HFBoards Sponsor
 
La Grosse Tendresse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rouyn-Noranda
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Molson will happily keep the money.

La Grosse Tendresse is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 10:28 AM
  #56
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
Molson will happily keep the money.
True, but if it needs to be spent, it will....

BLONG7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 10:35 AM
  #57
La Grosse Tendresse
HFBoards Sponsor
 
La Grosse Tendresse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rouyn-Noranda
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
True, but if it needs to be spent, it will....
Just like when the Habs were spending big bucks last time it belonged to Molson?

La Grosse Tendresse is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 10:36 AM
  #58
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by La Grosse Tendresse View Post
Just like when the Habs were spending big bucks last time it belonged to Molson?
Not the same ownership group.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 10:42 AM
  #59
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Not the same ownership group.
I was just about to post the same thing....it's back in the hands of the Family, not the Molson corporation....

BLONG7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 11:49 AM
  #60
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I hope not.

Inconsistent, loses battles for the puck all the time and isn't very responsible at either ends of the ice.
Turris is still pretty young though. I wouldn't give up the world for him by any stretch but if we could get him cheap I think he'd be worth taking a flyer on. Sometimes a changes of scenery is all it takes and he's got a lot of talent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I'd be satisfied with standing pat *IF* management had already approached some of the likely candidates out there, but determined that those players didn't want to play for us (on the kinds of terms I'd be thinking of, that is). We have $5M in cap space with openings up front and on D. Guys like Madden, Winchester, McCabe even, Hannan before he evapourated, etc, etc, all the usual suspects... if you could have any 2 of them on 1-year deals and still have $3M+ in cap space free for all this deadline contingency usage that people are talking about... shouldn't it be a no-brainer? $3M still gets you any player in the league at the deadline.

I'll just assume that Gauthier approached a variety of these players, but found that they either didn't want to come to Montreal, or didn't want 1-year sub-$1M deals, or some such. C'est la vie.

I'm a little surprised that so many people are so sold on the deadline acquisition issue, however. What if:
a) Habs aren't looking like a contender at the deadline, or
b) Habs don't make a significant acquisition at the deadline, or
c) Habs feel some kind of internal pressure to make a significant acquisition at the deadline and in so doing make a terrible trade for a player who ends up not making a difference and gives up some of the youth elements that are so cherished around here in the process...

Etc. Then what was the cap space good for? It's all what-ifs. I would always rather see the team spend the money up front in a clear attempt to make the team better from Day 1.
If we're not contenders though, why bother with FAs and tie ourselves to a guy like McCabe or Madden for another few years. All this does is lock us in with more mediocre players for the future. I think it makes sense to wait and see how we do with what we have.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 12:04 PM
  #61
PATCHESx67
Registered User
 
PATCHESx67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Island MTL
Country: Portugal
Posts: 1,407
vCash: 500
PG knows he needs to ice a winning hockey team,theres no rush to spend the 4mill wen the trainning camp didnt even start yet,who knows what can happen between today and our first season game.give the organisation time to value their assets and if they see holes they'll have the cap to fill them

PATCHESx67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 01:09 PM
  #62
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Turris is still pretty young though. I wouldn't give up the world for him by any stretch but if we could get him cheap I think he'd be worth taking a flyer on. Sometimes a changes of scenery is all it takes and he's got a lot of talent.

If we're not contenders though, why bother with FAs and tie ourselves to a guy like McCabe or Madden for another few years. All this does is lock us in with more mediocre players for the future. I think it makes sense to wait and see how we do with what we have.
If it's only for a year though, I'd have no problem inking Madden to about 1M. I think it would be great for us actually.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 01:31 PM
  #63
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If it's only for a year though, I'd have no problem inking Madden to about 1M. I think it would be great for us actually.
If he's willing to do a one year contract for 1 million I don't see how it could possibly hurt us. Still, it might be worth waiting to see how we do and hope for some deals at the deadline. Either way, it's not a bad situation to be in.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 02:09 PM
  #64
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If we're not contenders though, why bother with FAs and tie ourselves to a guy like McCabe or Madden for another few years. All this does is lock us in with more mediocre players for the future. I think it makes sense to wait and see how we do with what we have.
It's only 1 year. And having these players out of the gate has at least some potential to contribute towards rather we are or are not "contenders" (with a very broad definition of that term). That is, if we get significant players going down early in the season (e.g. Markov), then having an experienced replacement ready to step in immediately could be worth a point or three in the standings. The races are tight, and points lost in October and November could come back to haunt the team.

There are "what ifs" involved with signing players now too, but to me, it's the better path. Possbily those players add little or nothing. Possibly they help. But the thing is, there's no harm in having them either. There's no real downside. Maybe you can trade them (or others) away at the deadline for assets. Maybe you can't. If you have them on the right terms, you've still got $3M in cap space and can still get Iginla or whoever anyway.

Whereas if you just sit on the cap space, you've got nothing but what-ifs. Unless you own the team. (Not saying that's not a significant factor, just that as a fan it's not one that really satisfies me).

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 02:12 PM
  #65
ibeleaf98*
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 82
vCash: 500
They aren't going to spend more now. The Habs have some big raises due next summer like Subban & Price, and some other significant decisions (Spacek & Kostitsyn) positions so need to keep a reserve.

Hard to be confidenent in the D (Emelin, Weber & Gill...yeesh), but it seems management is confident in them, or woulda rather give them a shot than running off to sign a UFA at this point. If there's issues then can go get a rental in December-February to shore things up for the playoffs.

ibeleaf98* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 02:16 PM
  #66
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by whysomad View Post
They aren't going to spend more now. The Habs have some big raises due next summer like Subban & Price, and some other significant decisions (Spacek & Kostitsyn) positions so need to keep a reserve.

Hard to be confidenent in the D (Emelin, Weber & Gill...yeesh), but it seems management is confident in them, or woulda rather give them a shot than running off to sign a UFA at this point. If there's issues then can go get a rental in December-February to shore things up for the playoffs.
Why bother with the cap ? It's getting higher each year...

+

Gill, Spacek will be gone for sure = 6 million $
+
possibly A.K.= another 3.2 $

Plenty of dough for Price and Subban

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 02:36 PM
  #67
Gabe84
Bring back Bonk!
 
Gabe84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Why bother with the cap ? It's getting higher each year...

+

Gill, Spacek will be gone for sure = 6 million $
+
possibly A.K.= another 3.2 $

Plenty of dough for Price and Subban
That's 9M there to re-sign Price and Subban (if they both have good seasons, they will command big salaries), but then you have to replace those players you let go. So yeah, having some room for re-signing our future RFA or trade-deadline pick-ups is a great idea.

Gabe84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 02:38 PM
  #68
Pr3Va1L
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Why bother with the cap ? It's getting higher each year...

+

Gill, Spacek will be gone for sure = 6 million $
+
possibly A.K.= another 3.2 $

Plenty of dough for Price and Subban

What most people don't seem to understand is that the CBA is getting re-negociated next year and as such NOBODY knows what might happen. (I.E., the cap might actually go down as teams have been complaining too much of the revenue was going to the players.)

Which is why most teams have been reticent in signing player to more than a 1 year deal.. (see: Hamrlik.)

Pr3Va1L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 02:43 PM
  #69
Gabe84
Bring back Bonk!
 
Gabe84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
What most people don't seem to understand is that the CBA is getting re-negociated next year and as such NOBODY knows what might happen. (I.E., the cap might actually go down as teams have been complaining too much of the revenue was going to the players.)

Which is why most teams have been reticent in signing player to more than a 1 year deal.. (see: Hamrlik.)
That's a good point. Also, the Habs are in a great situation regarding Price and Subban. I'm guessing RFAs and their salary will be a big part of the negotiations.

Smart management.

Gabe84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 02:57 PM
  #70
donghabs98
Moderator
 
donghabs98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,801
vCash: 0
Madden is a guy i think we should really sign
grier is other but asides that
i think we need to look at the team in the pre-season first

donghabs98 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 03:19 PM
  #71
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
That's 9M there to re-sign Price and Subban (if they both have good seasons, they will command big salaries), but then you have to replace those players you let go. So yeah, having some room for re-signing our future RFA or trade-deadline pick-ups is a great idea.
They can be replaced by low salary rookies. The Habs have a good assortment of youngsters to promote next year: Palushaj, Leblanc, Avstin, Diaz, Nash, and so on... + price is already making over 3 million... So half of his future salary at least is already in the books.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 04:50 PM
  #72
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
That's 9M there to re-sign Price and Subban (if they both have good seasons, they will command big salaries), but then you have to replace those players you let go. So yeah, having some room for re-signing our future RFA or trade-deadline pick-ups is a great idea.
Why is there an obsession to pay outrageous salaries to these 2 players who are under the team's control for several more years. Price and Subban have exactly one good year under their belt, that's great but a well managed team would not give Subban a huge raise after an ELC. the rules of management don't change because the player is a fan favourite.

Admittedly management have painted themselves into a corner with Price but it does not mean he should be given much more money than his modest accomplishments justify

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 05:06 PM
  #73
bcv
My french sucks.
 
bcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Why is there an obsession to pay outrageous salaries to these 2 players who are under the team's control for several more years. Price and Subban have exactly one good year under their belt, that's great but a well managed team would not give Subban a huge raise after an ELC. the rules of management don't change because the player is a fan favourite.

Admittedly management have painted themselves into a corner with Price but it does not mean he should be given much more money than his modest accomplishments justify
Lol, modest accomplishments? Oh, ok.

bcv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 05:09 PM
  #74
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,023
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Why is there an obsession to pay outrageous salaries to these 2 players who are under the team's control for several more years. Price and Subban have exactly one good year under their belt, that's great but a well managed team would not give Subban a huge raise after an ELC. the rules of management don't change because the player is a fan favourite.

Admittedly management have painted themselves into a corner with Price but it does not mean he should be given much more money than his modest accomplishments justify
I think this is an incredibly naive view of the current RFA situation around the league. Why do you think Doughty, Schenn, Bailey, etc still don't have contracts? Because they know if they wait long enough, they'll get paid. They may be the team's property, but the team doesn't really have a choice. There is no more "second contract"; young players are coming off their ELCs into huge money deals because teams have to pay for potential now. Price and Subban and their "modest accomplishments" will be no different.

Though I would like to hear how management "painted themselves into a corner" with Price?

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2011, 05:27 PM
  #75
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Lol, modest accomplishments? Oh, ok.
8-15 playoff record paired with 1.5 good regular reasons.
Subban has one year under his belt. Promising but modest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I think this is an incredibly naive view of the current RFA situation around the league. Why do you think Doughty, Schenn, Bailey, etc still don't have contracts? Because they know if they wait long enough, they'll get paid. They may be the team's property, but the team doesn't really have a choice. There is no more "second contract"; young players are coming off their ELCs into huge money deals because teams have to pay for potential now. Price and Subban and their "modest accomplishments" will be no different.

Though I would like to hear how management "painted themselves into a corner" with Price?
Players are going to get paid no matter what, however it doesn't hurt to at least delay that fact when you can. Lets see what happens with the above list of players before we declare the league's surrender to the demands of the 21-26 year old player bracket.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.