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Still ~4+ Million under the cap... what do?

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Old
09-12-2011, 04:33 PM
  #76
bcv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
8-15 playoff record paired with 1.5 good regular reasons.
Subban has one year under his belt. Promising but modest.



Players are going to get paid no matter what, however it doesn't hurt to at least delay that fact when you can. Lets see what happens with the above list of players before we declare the league's surrender to the demands of the 21-26 year old player bracket.
So modest, he is in the top5 goalie in history at his age. All that while having 2 good years, 1 okay year and 1 great year. Yeah, "promising".

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Old
09-12-2011, 04:40 PM
  #77
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Wait till Markov goes on LTIR and then have MEGA CAP SPACE!

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09-12-2011, 05:00 PM
  #78
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I say sit on it.

Either that or sign Yashin long term.

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Old
09-12-2011, 05:44 PM
  #79
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Sit on it... while keeping a keen eye on some of the impending UFA's that could/would fit both immediate and long term needs

Fwd's:
T.Ruutu
Umberger
Stoll


Def:
Stuart
Coburn
Gleason


to say nothing of the more big-ticket names like Parise, Suter, or some of the RFA's...


between x-mas/deadline, I would hope that PG is aggressively working the phones, finding out what players are being put up on the trade block, and if the right fit is there, pulls the trigger.

with cap space to spare, for once, we put ourselves in the unnusual position of being able to "help" another team by taking on some salary, thus minimzing the asset return needed to pull of the deal.
s

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Old
09-12-2011, 06:25 PM
  #80
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why is everyone want a forward ? We have a good top 6 and Eller + AK on the 3rd line is a luxe. I rather add a number 1b defense man at the deadline or next summer (someone on Seabrook's level )...I would love to see Markov paired with a very good defense man once in his career not with scrubs like Komisarek or O'Byrn. I know Gorges is OK but he's not a top pair defense man imo.

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Old
09-12-2011, 06:42 PM
  #81
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I'd be satisfied with standing pat *IF* management had already approached some of the likely candidates out there, but determined that those players didn't want to play for us (on the kinds of terms I'd be thinking of, that is). We have $5M in cap space with openings up front and on D. Guys like Madden, Winchester, McCabe even, Hannan before he evapourated, etc, etc, all the usual suspects... if you could have any 2 of them on 1-year deals and still have $3M+ in cap space free for all this deadline contingency usage that people are talking about... shouldn't it be a no-brainer? $3M still gets you any player in the league at the deadline.

I'll just assume that Gauthier approached a variety of these players, but found that they either didn't want to come to Montreal, or didn't want 1-year sub-$1M deals, or some such. C'est la vie.

I'm a little surprised that so many people are so sold on the deadline acquisition issue, however. What if:
a) Habs aren't looking like a contender at the deadline, or
b) Habs don't make a significant acquisition at the deadline, or
c) Habs feel some kind of internal pressure to make a significant acquisition at the deadline and in so doing make a terrible trade for a player who ends up not making a difference and gives up some of the youth elements that are so cherished around here in the process...

Etc. Then what was the cap space good for? It's all what-ifs. I would always rather see the team spend the money up front in a clear attempt to make the team better from Day 1.

Best post on this thread.

There really is not that much that PG can go out and get right now. It would be foolish to just bring on some semi-washed up player.

However, that money should have been spent in July when there were players available who could have helped this team.

We have a very good team. The problem is that for this team to remain very good is that we have to avoid the injuries since our depth is not that solid.

Being proactive is far better than being reactive. Also, if PG is hoping that this team is in position to make the playoffs and he will spend then, this could be a recipe for disaster if we are not due to injuries.

I give PG a and a for not addressing our needs in July.

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Old
09-12-2011, 07:05 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
8-15 playoff record paired with 1.5 good regular reasons.
Subban has one year under his belt. Promising but modest.



Players are going to get paid no matter what, however it doesn't hurt to at least delay that fact when you can. Lets see what happens with the above list of players before we declare the league's surrender to the demands of the 21-26 year old player bracket.
When you have a couple of guys like Price and Subban with such great talent that they will probably become stars (more likely than not), you take a chance and sign them to long term contracts for cheaper. That's smart management. They end up costing way less when they are in their prime at 27-28 and it allows you to surround them with a great cast and kick ass.

If you wait until they are proven at 25-26, they end up costing and arm and a leg, that's poor management. The key to this, is to identify the proper guys deserving of this and you only do it for a few of them. The Flyers are the best at this in the league. Look at Richards, Carter, JVR, Giroux, etc.

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Old
09-12-2011, 07:11 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Best post on this thread.

There really is not that much that PG can go out and get right now. It would be foolish to just bring on some semi-washed up player.

However, that money should have been spent in July when there were players available who could have helped this team.

We have a very good team. The problem is that for this team to remain very good is that we have to avoid the injuries since our depth is not that solid.

Being proactive is far better than being reactive. Also, if PG is hoping that this team is in position to make the playoffs and he will spend then, this could be a recipe for disaster if we are not due to injuries.

I give PG a and a for not addressing our needs in July.
You assume we have needs. I don't agree. Can we improve the team? Yes. Do we have needs? No.

Maybe PG thinks the same and is happy with what he has vs. what he was able to do. Kind of arsh to judge PG when we have no clue what's really going on. Maybe he tried and did not succeed? Who knows?

Overall, I'm really happy with PG's work so far since he took over Bob.

If we have a very good year, that cap room will alow PG to get a star player at the deadline.

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Old
09-12-2011, 08:06 PM
  #84
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There is nothing worth spending it on right now. Maybe pay attention to a couple of the RFA situations like Bogosian and Turris, and if something comes up try and jump on it. If not, maybe teams will have a terrible start, lose players to injuries, etc. and they try to dump someone. Never know how the months leading to x-mas break are going to play out.

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Old
09-12-2011, 08:15 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
You assume we have needs. I don't agree. Can we improve the team? Yes. Do we have needs? No.

Maybe PG thinks the same and is happy with what he has vs. what he was able to do. Kind of arsh to judge PG when we have no clue what's really going on. Maybe he tried and did not succeed? Who knows?

Overall, I'm really happy with PG's work so far since he took over Bob.

If we have a very good year, that cap room will alow PG to get a star player at the deadline.
As said previously, this team is talented. Not deep, but talented.

We are an injury or two away from relying on unproven NHL players to carry the team while we sit on a pile of cash.

And as far as judging PG, I guess you and I have a different philosophy. I believe that success is measured by results, not the effort put into trying to get results.

And for what its worth, using Gainey as the bar for a successful GM really doesnt mean a lot. You would be a better GM than Gainey.

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Old
09-12-2011, 08:17 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by S1C1L1AN78 View Post
After each win they make it rain money lol
They could tie thousand-dollar bill to those 3 pucks the 1st star throws into the stands

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Old
09-12-2011, 09:42 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
So modest, he is in the top5 goalie in history at his age. All that while having 2 good years, 1 okay year and 1 great year. Yeah, "promising".
Oh, you're an extremist I see.

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Old
09-12-2011, 10:00 PM
  #88
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
As said previously, this team is talented. Not deep, but talented.

We are an injury or two away from relying on unproven NHL players to carry the team while we sit on a pile of cash.

And as far as judging PG, I guess you and I have a different philosophy. I believe that success is measured by results, not the effort put into trying to get results.

And for what its worth, using Gainey as the bar for a successful GM really doesnt mean a lot. You would be a better GM than Gainey.
In a previous post, you criticize Gauthier for not using the cap space in July and addressing our needs, which CLEARLY was, lack of size in top 6, depth and lack of puck moving skills from the back end. That's right genius, having a protector that plays 5minutes a game was not a priority.
So, Gauthier re-signed Weber, Markov, Gorges, that all improve the puck moving from the back end, drastically. He also finally signed our beloved Russian prospect, Emelin, from Russia, who just flourished over there last season and proved to be a very good puck mover as well.
So, ''Improve puck moving from Defense'', Check.

He also signed Cole who finished top 10 in checks last season on top of scoring 26goals, and brought back AK, who, despite popular belief, is a sure lock for 40pts. We are no longer talking about a top 6, but more of a top 9.
So, ''Add size top 6 and improve depth'', Check.

Now, if for whatever reason you don't like these moves, that's your opinion, but Gauthier absolutely went after our needs.
Also, if that ''protector'' player your ******* over of having, was our ''need'', he can still sign one. It has nothing to do with the cap. He didn't miss out on anybody of that role, at all.

I don't really know what you're talking about when you say we're 1-2 injuries from having an unproven youngster carry this team. If Cole and Gorges get injured, it's gonna be up to who to carry this team? DD, Eller, MaxPac, Weber, Emelin? Or guys like Cammy, Gionta, Plek, Gomez, AK, Markov, PK, Gill, Spacek??
Truth is, we are far from having to rely on youngsters to carry this team. These young players can put us over the edge. They can make our team a very, very performing one, but they won't have the pressure to carry our team, and even if they simply produce at a decent rate, we'll still be very good.

For some reason, you also whine about having that sum of money if we go through injuries. Having this room actually helps in case of injuries. That way, if some players get injured, but not long enough to warrant being placed on LTIR, we can still try to find a replacement without worrying about shedding salary. It's actually a very wise decision. But hey, you have your ''I hate PG and Martin'' Jersey on, that looks more like a tattoo by now, so you really can't see much good in anything they do. Heck, you can't even credit Gauthier for filling our most obvious need.

It's quite pathetic. Spare me your sarcastic response too. I don't intend on going in a circular non-sensical debate with you. Just wanted to say my peace on this subject.


Last edited by Kriss E: 09-13-2011 at 10:14 AM.
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Old
09-12-2011, 10:17 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
As said previously, this team is talented. Not deep, but talented.
You have it completely upside down, we have way mote dept then we did last season, but we still lack high end talent, Whig could change with the signing of 1 1st line winger or Eller blossoming to his highest potential

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post

Now, if for whatever reason you don't like these moves, that's your opinion, but Gauthier absolutely went after our needs.
Also, if that ''protector'' player your ******* over of having, was our ''need'', he can still sign one. It has nothing to do with the cap. He didn't miss out on anybody of that role.
umm... Rupp, Konopka, Carcillo, Boulton, Janseen, Eager, Hordichuk, Winchester, etc, etc. It was in fact the best off season to take care of that issue, but for the rest you're right though:


Last edited by Maxpac: 09-12-2011 at 10:24 PM.
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Old
09-12-2011, 10:31 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
umm... Rupp, Konopka, Carcillo, Boulton, Janseen, Eager, Hordichuk, Winchester, etc, etc. It was in fact the best off season to take care of that issue, but for the rest you're right though:
None of those guys are really worth much. I'd rather draft and develop a good player who can fight than pick up waiver-wire material.

Unfortunately that would require management knowing that toughness is. And that means not looking towards a bunch of string-bean punching bags like Conboy and Tinordi to make a career taking beatings.

Guys like Clowe, Clarkson, Clifford, Downie, Backes, Benn, Lucic, Simmonds, Neal, Stewart, Malone, and Brouwer are more my speed.

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09-12-2011, 11:24 PM
  #91
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Burke's managed to pick up talent by taking on salary. He got Aulie by taking Phaneuf, Franson by taking Lombardi. There's at least a possibility that the Habs could take on someone overpaid, especially a third or fourth liner, and in return upgrade a pick or a prospect.

To be frank though, this org has been neither creative nor focused on stockpiling picks. They have been aggressive and successful in the UFA market, but always in a pretty straightforward manner. The most likely use of the cap room is as rainy day/playoff upgrade flexibility, maybe never to be spent.
Yeah, and we got Pyatt for taking on Gomez!....








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Old
09-12-2011, 11:59 PM
  #92
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the money is for price and subban next year, case closed

gauthier is brilliant for creating the cap space 1 season prior

all these people who want to spend to the cap make me laugh.

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Old
09-13-2011, 05:58 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
As said previously, this team is talented. Not deep, but talented.

We are an injury or two away from relying on unproven NHL players to carry the team while we sit on a pile of cash.

And as far as judging PG, I guess you and I have a different philosophy. I believe that success is measured by results, not the effort put into trying to get results.

And for what its worth, using Gainey as the bar for a successful GM really doesnt mean a lot. You would be a better GM than Gainey.
You lost me there. Gainey was a good GM, maybe no great, but good. Look at the team he took over (no NHL talent and no prospects) from Houle and where he brought it. I would say that he did a good job.

And we are not 1 or 2 injuris away from being carried by kids. We have depth.

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09-13-2011, 06:00 AM
  #94
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None of those guys are really worth much. I'd rather draft and develop a good player who can fight than pick up waiver-wire material.

Unfortunately that would require management knowing that toughness is. And that means not looking towards a bunch of string-bean punching bags like Conboy and Tinordi to make a career taking beatings.

Guys like Clowe, Clarkson, Clifford, Downie, Backes, Benn, Lucic, Simmonds, Neal, Stewart, Malone, and Brouwer are more my speed.
I hope you were kidding here. The kid is 19. When he will be 6'6" and 230 lbs, not too many guys will want to face him.

Any how, how about waiting to see how he develops first

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the money is for price and subban next year, case closed

gauthier is brilliant for creating the cap space 1 season prior

all these people who want to spend to the cap make me laugh.
Agreed. Eller and Yemelin will also be RFAs. If they have good seasons, they will cost more also.

And for people saying Spacek, Gill and Moen will be gone creating 7.5M of space, well they have to be replaced and not all 3 by 600K palyers, we need talent and depth. There repalcement will probably cost 4-5M, so creating that much space.

And we have to resign AK, or replace him with someone similar if we want to keep 3 lines going.

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Old
09-13-2011, 06:42 AM
  #95
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wait, evaluate the team, then fill the holes.
injuries happen.

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Old
09-13-2011, 08:14 AM
  #96
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You have it completely upside down, we have way mote dept then we did last season, but we still lack high end talent, Whig could change with the signing of 1 1st line winger or Eller blossoming to his highest potential


umm... Rupp, Konopka, Carcillo, Boulton, Janseen, Eager, Hordichuk, Winchester, etc, etc. It was in fact the best off season to take care of that issue, but for the rest you're right though:
Okay so one guy who can play hockey who was snatched up almost immediately and a bunch of guys who suck. Got it. Oh and the only guy who doesn't fit that description is Carcillo and if you actually think he'd be a fit here see Avery @ Dallas. He most certainly wouldn't be. Management is trying to have a stable locker room of guys who like one another, they aren't going to add a jack ass like Carcillo or some guy who can't play hockey.

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Old
09-13-2011, 09:54 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Bieber fever View Post
why is everyone want a forward ? We have a good top 6 and Eller + AK on the 3rd line is a luxe. I rather add a number 1b defense man at the deadline or next summer (someone on Seabrook's level )...I would love to see Markov paired with a very good defense man once in his career not with scrubs like Komisarek or O'Byrn. I know Gorges is OK but he's not a top pair defense man imo.
Seabrook is as overrated as Komisarek was.

Really creative Dmen like Markov don't play with other top d men, it becomes redundent. You put them with a not so offensive guy who will just get them the puck, hang back, cover them when they go up and join the offence. That's why you will rarely see Subban & Markov together.

The Habs will probably go out and get a vet d man rental who is not as dilapidated as Spacek or Gill. Unless Spacek really has a bounce back season, and the rookies Weber and Emelin overperform. Even then there's always gonna be injuries...

To the other guy complaining about Subban & Price getting big RFA contracts, welcome to the market, have you not been paying attention to the contracts other big name RFAs get? The Habs will wait until next summer to sign them, but if Price has another top5 season he will get 5+ million, and if Subban puts up 40+ points with 25 min TOI he will get 4+ million also. You expect them to sign for 3mil each? Way under value?

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Old
09-13-2011, 09:58 AM
  #98
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The only potential hole is a 4th line center which will not cost more than 2M$.
Keep the money until deadline and acquire an impending UFA if needed.

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Old
09-13-2011, 10:31 AM
  #99
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umm... Rupp, Konopka, Carcillo, Boulton, Janseen, Eager, Hordichuk, Winchester, etc, etc. It was in fact the best off season to take care of that issue, but for the rest you're right though:
Thanks for proving my point, we didn't miss out on anybody. Rupp is the only one I might have been interested in, but at 1.5M/3y, no thanks. The rest of your list constitutes clowns and useless junk parts. As I said, we didn't miss out on anybody.

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Old
09-13-2011, 10:48 AM
  #100
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Don't sign Madden now. Wait for a few months and trade a second round pick for him. Worked for Moore and people love that trade.

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