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Old
09-12-2011, 10:23 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I definitely think that they are hoping that Hemsky fetches them that kind of a return at the deadline. IMO that makes the most sense all things considered.
I could see Hemsky having a career year this year. He has the wingers to play with and will be very driven.

He will be a PPG player by the deadline and the Oilers will have a really tough decision. It would have to be something pretty special for him to be moved though.

Like a top prospect and a 2012 1st.

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09-12-2011, 10:49 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Murphy 27 View Post
I could see Hemsky having a career year this year. He has the wingers to play with and will be very driven.

He will be a PPG player by the deadline and the Oilers will have a really tough decision. It would have to be something pretty special for him to be moved though.

Like a top prospect and a 2012 1st.
Traditionally players do very well in contract years. I also can see Hemsky putting up career numbers this year. For what it's worth I really hope we find a way to keep him. Smyth is here now and Hemsky really likes playing in Edmonton. I'd bet he's willing to take a discount to say here, he has before. I really can't see us getting fair return on him if we trade him. A mid first round pick IMHO is not as good as a player of Hemsky's calibre.

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09-12-2011, 10:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Alawishis View Post
Traditionally players do very well in contract years. I also can see Hemsky putting up career numbers this year. For what it's worth I really hope we find a way to keep him. Smyth is here now and Hemsky really likes playing in Edmonton. I'd bet he's willing to take a discount to say here, he has before. I really can't see us getting fair return on him if we trade him. A mid first round pick IMHO is not as good as a player of Hemsky's calibre.
Lots to be determined IMO, Hemsky would do well to gain chemistry with the kids and not ask for the moon.

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09-12-2011, 11:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Murphy 27 View Post
I could see Hemsky having a career year this year. He has the wingers to play with and will be very driven.

He will be a PPG player by the deadline and the Oilers will have a really tough decision. It would have to be something pretty special for him to be moved though.

Like a top prospect and a 2012 1st.
Nobody will Oilers a top prospect AND a 1st round pick in 2012. This is Ales Hemsky, not Pavel Datsyuk or Evgeny Malkin, we are talking about. Unfortunately, Hemsky's injury history severely limits his value and is the main reason why the Oilers should move him when he has a good season. If Pens are willing to offer Despres for Hemsky straight up, the Oilers should take the offer and run.

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09-13-2011, 12:43 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Complaining about the direction of our team without even attempting to put forth a viable alternative isn't very productive.
The "viable alternative" you speak of isn't that hard to see . Its called buckling down and doing your job instead of taking the easy way out . I don't know how much clearer I can be . I don't feel like taking a shortcut to the SC . I accept the fact that most pro sports teams are mediocre . I accept the fact that only a handful of teams have won the SC since the Oilers last won in 90 . I realize that if we win the SC once every twenty years we are probably doing pretty well . I understand that even with all the picks Tamby has stocked up there are no guarantees that we will become perennial contenders like so many on the board seem to believe . I reject the attempts by you , Joe and Fourier to characterize me as a member of the "win now crowd" because I don't expect to win all the time . In short I'd be much happier if the team finished in the middle of the pack with an honest effort than if we won the SC by going on the dole .

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You can do better than that.
In spite of your wish to make it so , it isn't about how well I can do . Its about how well Tamby can do .
I know you aren't satisfied with his performance so I have to conclude that you are just stirring the pot with this post . Again .

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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Hemsky would do well to gain chemistry with the kids and not ask for the moon.
Yeah that seems like the right attitude . A guy who has carried the team for years , been its best player for years , would do well to adapt his game to suit a bunch of kids who don't yet know squat about what it means to be a pro . Or he's out the door for more draft picks .


Last edited by Bryanbryoil: 09-13-2011 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Not needed
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Old
09-13-2011, 12:52 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post

The "viable alternative" you speak of isn't that hard to see . Its called buckling down and doing your job instead of taking the easy way out . I don't know how much clearer I can be . I don't feel like taking a shortcut to the SC . I accept the fact that most pro sports teams are mediocre . I accept the fact that only a handful of teams have won the SC since the Oilers last won in 90 . I realize that if we win the SC once every twenty years we are probably doing pretty well . I understand that even with all the picks Tamby has stocked up their are no guarantees that we will become perennial contenders like so many on the board seem to believe . I reject the attempts by you , Joe and Fourier to characterize me as a member of the "win now crowd" because I don't expect to win all the time . In short I'd be much happier if the team finished in the middle of the pack with an honest effort than if we won the SC by going on the dole .

In spite of your wish to make it so , it isn't about how well I can do . Its about how well Tamby can do .
I know you aren't satisfied with his performance so I have to conclude that you are just stirring the pot with this post . Again .
Nobody is characterizing you as anything. We are asking what you would suggest as an alternative to the plan of tanking for picks that you find so offensive. Not sure why you are reticent to offer any suggestions.

They tried going the ufa/trade route. It backfired in their faces with Pronger/Lupul/Souray/Nylander/Hossa/Heatley, the list goes on and on. So that seems like a non-starter.

We could try to upgrade by trade, but what are we realistically going to expect the market to be for the collective garbage we had to offer pre Hall?

You tell me.

It sounds like you have a legitimate gripe, so Im not calling you out or picking on you, just wondering if you have a viable alternative, because I cant really see one.


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09-13-2011, 01:04 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Nobody will Oilers a top prospect AND a 1st round pick in 2012. This is Ales Hemsky, not Pavel Datsyuk or Evgeny Malkin, we are talking about. Unfortunately, Hemsky's injury history severely limits his value and is the main reason why the Oilers should move him when he has a good season. If Pens are willing to offer Despres for Hemsky straight up, the Oilers should take the offer and run.
I'm going to make a bold prediction: That if we trade Hemsky for a prospect this team will be sub 500 for the next 5 years. With Hemsky our forward depth is nearly Contender deep(still need a couple bottom 6'ers). Without him we'll be looking for another top 6 RW, and the kids will be paired against the other teams top pairing d-men. And anyone who thinks Omark can fill Hemsky's shoes need to realize what Hemsky was doing in the NHL at Omark's age.(2005-2006 season if you want to look it up.) If you guys want to turn into the Atlanta's, Phoenix's, Islander's, and the Florida's of the league you can support trading Hemsky, but as for me as a fan I'm going to demand more from my GM than just sitting on his hands being gifted top draft choices while trading away arguably out most talented player, and ask that he do his job and complete this roster through trades and UFA signings to make it contender worthy. Also this post isn't directed directly at you tiger80, your just one of the guys advocating we trade Hemsky.

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09-13-2011, 01:05 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Yeah that seems like the right attitude . A guy who has carried the team for years , been its best player for years , would do well to adapt his game to suit a bunch of kids who don't yet know squat about what it means to be a pro . Or he's out the door for more draft picks .
If he doesn't fit/gel with the core going forward why keep him?

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09-13-2011, 01:21 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If he doesn't fit/gel with the core going forward why keep him?
Same with Gagner right ? My problem is that anyone not named Hall or Eberle is no lock to be a member of the core going forward . Seems kinda lame to get rid of one of our best players because a) you're worried we won't get as much for him later and b) he might not fit with unproven commodities like MPS , Omark etc .

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09-13-2011, 02:15 AM
  #110
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I'm going to make a bold prediction: That if we trade Hemsky for a prospect this team will be sub 500 for the next 5 years. With Hemsky our forward depth is nearly Contender deep(still need a couple bottom 6'ers). Without him we'll be looking for another top 6 RW, and the kids will be paired against the other teams top pairing d-men. And anyone who thinks Omark can fill Hemsky's shoes need to realize what Hemsky was doing in the NHL at Omark's age.(2005-2006 season if you want to look it up.) If you guys want to turn into the Atlanta's, Phoenix's, Islander's, and the Florida's of the league you can support trading Hemsky, but as for me as a fan I'm going to demand more from my GM than just sitting on his hands being gifted top draft choices while trading away arguably out most talented player, and ask that he do his job and complete this roster through trades and UFA signings to make it contender worthy. Also this post isn't directed directly at you tiger80, your just one of the guys advocating we trade Hemsky.
We all know what Hemsky is capable of when he's healthy. The problem is he hardly ever is. If there is a lesson they should have learned from Souray and Horcoff signings is that you do not sign to big contracts players with history of serious injuries. Ales Hemsky playing 80 games a season is easily a 5 million dollar player. Ales Hemsky averaging 40 games a season during the course of his contract is a waste of valuable cap space that's better used elsewhere.

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09-13-2011, 02:23 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Same with Gagner right ? My problem is that anyone not named Hall or Eberle is no lock to be a member of the core going forward . Seems kinda lame to get rid of one of our best players because a) you're worried we won't get as much for him later and b) he might not fit with unproven commodities like MPS , Omark etc .
The bottom line is that most teams have pairs that have great chemistry to anchor a line, who does Hemsky or Gagner have great chemistry with? You complain about management then when ideas about building a team with chemistry and the right mix of players is brought up you throw out a post like this as a reply? Paajarvi and Omark's career's are in their infancy, however I see zero reasons why Paajarvi won't be in this league for a long, long time.

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09-13-2011, 03:23 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Lots to be determined IMO, Hemsky would do well to gain chemistry with the kids and not ask for the moon.
Agreed, depending on how Hemsky's agent factors into the equation. I'm not sure who his agent is or if he changed agents since his last contract. If he has an agent that takes over the process, or if he has one that more or less follows the clients direction will play into this. I know by rights the agents should always do what the client directs, but different agents have different styles, and the players desires are not always followed to the letter if they are not the type to be hands-on in the process.

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09-13-2011, 03:59 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
The bottom line is that most teams have pairs that have great chemistry to anchor a line,
Oh really ? I must have missed that in all my years of watching hockey . Talking about "chemistry" is about as unquantifiable as talking about "hockey IQ" , but if you honestly believe you are qualified to measure such things then by all means carry on .

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who does Hemsky or Gagner have great chemistry with?
I dunno . Who does MPS have great chemistry with ?

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You complain about management then when ideas about building a team with chemistry and the right mix of players is brought up you throw out a post like this as a reply?
Who decides that Hemsky and Gagner don't/won't have chemistry or won't/can't be a part of the "right" mix of players ? Based on the small sample of games you are going on , it seems like voodoo to me , hence my reply . You think those two players aren't part of the "right mix" . I think you're wrong .

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Paajarvi and Omark's career's are in their infancy, however I see zero reasons why Paajarvi won't be in this league for a long, long time.
We'll see . He may be a player but he's got a long way to go before he's worthy to carry Hemsky's jock . And if I'm the GM I'm certainly not going to get rid of Hemsky hoping to find a kid in the draft who might have better "chemistry" with MPS .


Last edited by harpoon: 09-13-2011 at 04:09 AM.
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09-13-2011, 09:23 AM
  #114
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When Hemsky is on his game he can dangle like Datsyuk. If he could stay healthy and was a better 2 way player he'd already be signed long term.

Hopefully having his old line back together with Smyth and Horcoff brings immediate dividends.

The fact that the Oilers have made a conscious effort to bring in size, toughness and forward depth can only benefit Hemsky's game.

A line of Hall-RNH-Hemsky could be amazing by next season.

3 guys who can carry the puck, play the give-and-go and can snipe.

I vote for signing him.

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09-13-2011, 09:33 AM
  #115
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Does anyone believe the Oilers are actively trying to dive this season?

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09-13-2011, 10:18 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Nobody will Oilers a top prospect AND a 1st round pick in 2012. This is Ales Hemsky, not Pavel Datsyuk or Evgeny Malkin, we are talking about. Unfortunately, Hemsky's injury history severely limits his value and is the main reason why the Oilers should move him when he has a good season. If Pens are willing to offer Despres for Hemsky straight up, the Oilers should take the offer and run.
You realize Tomas Kaberle got a top prospect and a first, right? Dustin Penner got the same. A mid to late first and a very good prospect is not unreasonable. We are talking about a playoff teams pick, not a top 5.

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09-13-2011, 10:20 AM
  #117
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Does anyone believe the Oilers are actively trying to dive this season?
If injuries persist and Barkers game is the same as it has been much of the last two seasons, i can see Tambellini sitting on his hands and doing nothing to help, he'll be quick to line up for another lottery pick i have to think.

This could go either way this season. Will Ryan Smyth make even more of an impact on this team than we hoped he'd have, or will it be a lack of discipline on behalf of Eager and Hordichuk combined with less than half a season from Hemsky and Whitney. If we're not getting decent goaltending, combined with those other elements, we could very well be a top 3 pick again next summer.

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09-13-2011, 10:29 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Does anyone believe the Oilers are actively trying to dive this season?
That won't be determined until they do or don't.

Same thing happened last year and year before. It's a defence mchanism amongst fans so they don't have to aknowledge that Tambellini may not be getting the results he is intending to.

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09-13-2011, 10:34 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Does anyone believe the Oilers are actively trying to dive this season?
A top 5 pick still seems like a highly probable outcome. Does it matter if they are trying or not?

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09-13-2011, 10:38 AM
  #120
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I am fine with what they are doing and I don't think it matters what the outcome is this year either.

It just seems that people are expecting more from the management and I am not sure what they expect

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09-13-2011, 10:48 AM
  #121
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I think we'll see Tambellini gone by the end of this season. He's accomplished what he's been brought in here to do. The extension he'll sign this coming this season will basically just a severence package so he remains on the Oiler payroll for a couple more yrs after he's turfed.

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09-13-2011, 12:41 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Oh really ? I must have missed that in all my years of watching hockey . Talking about "chemistry" is about as unquantifiable as talking about "hockey IQ" , but if you honestly believe you are qualified to measure such things then by all means carry on .
Chemistry and Hockey IQ are things that coaches look at when making their lineups, it is a reality whether you want to accept it or not.

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I dunno . Who does MPS have great chemistry with ?
If you watched the games last year you wouldn't need to ask this question.

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Who decides that Hemsky and Gagner don't/won't have chemistry or won't/can't be a part of the "right" mix of players ? Based on the small sample of games you are going on , it seems like voodoo to me , hence my reply . You think those two players aren't part of the "right mix" . I think you're wrong .
Of course you think that I'm wrong, that's why you're debating me, tell me why I'm wrong. In Hemsky I see a player that while extremely talented is injury prone, will be asking for a lot of $, and is an UFA at seasons end. All the while not having chemistry with the kids at least yet. Gagner is a small/weak center that has shown minimal improvement in 4 seasons time and all the while the management group has put an emphasis on drafting bigger, stronger, harder to play against players. And again Gagner has yet to click with the next wave of players. It is my opinion that if these guys want to be here long term they will need to click with the Big 3 ie.

Hall-RNH-Hemsky
Paajarvi-Gagner-Hemsky etc.

Quote:
We'll see . He may be a player but he's got a long way to go before he's worthy to carry Hemsky's jock . And if I'm the GM I'm certainly not going to get rid of Hemsky hoping to find a kid in the draft who might have better "chemistry" with MPS .
There is more to it than that, injury concerns, contract negotiations, does he really want to remain here?, etc. That said would it not be more viable to keep him around if he elevates Paajarvi's or Hall's games? That is my point, chemistry is a big thing in the game and especially in scoring roles. Hemsky would do well for himself by staying healthy, not asking for the moon in terms of cap hit and contract length, and he shows chemistry with one of the kids.

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09-13-2011, 12:45 PM
  #123
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Does anyone believe the Oilers are actively trying to dive this season?
I don't believe that they are while last year I believe that by the team that they iced that was the intention. I don't believe that management is trying to bring in the pieces to make the posts season this year, however they have improved the team and if they were trying to be dead last again they wouldn't have done that.

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09-13-2011, 12:47 PM
  #124
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I think we'll see Tambellini gone by the end of this season. He's accomplished what he's been brought in here to do. The extension he'll sign this coming this season will basically just a severence package so he remains on the Oiler payroll for a couple more yrs after he's turfed.
I highly doubt it, that would be very unfair to him, he has been the face of the franchise while it wallows in losing based on the decision of ownership and management and then you don't give him a chance to see it through when it's time to turn it around?

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09-13-2011, 01:02 PM
  #125
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Man I can see the topic, but no Sedins... Am I disappointed....

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