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Still ~4+ Million under the cap... what do?

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Old
09-13-2011, 11:10 AM
  #101
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Also lol @ bashing Gainey a cup winning general manager.

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Old
09-13-2011, 11:15 AM
  #102
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looking at our current roster again, i really hope that PG is in talks, or has his eyes firmly set on a UFA depth forward to bring in.

right now we have very weak depth at fwd in case of injury...

as it stands, our first injury call-up will have to come from:
Blunden
Trotter
Palushaj
Engqvist

that's not a plum choice of players who could realistically step in and play a full-time role in case of serious injury.

adding an NHL caliber bottom-6 player would also bode well from an internal competition pov, as right now none of those guys would be any serious challenge for ice time unless someone gets hurt.

adding a Madden or Clark would make for some competition to stay out of the press box

frankly i still don't get why they didn't just bring back Pyatt. He was ideally suited to be that 4th line /press box player.


Defensive depth is better, but we still could definitely use a better option to round out our top-4, as one of Gill/Spacek (unless Weber/Emelin do enough to convince Martin otherwise) are currently pencilled in to that spot.

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Old
09-13-2011, 11:19 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
looking at our current roster again, i really hope that PG is in talks, or has his eyes firmly set on a UFA depth forward to bring in.

right now we have very weak depth at fwd in case of injury...

as it stands, our first injury call-up will have to come from:
Blunden
Trotter
Palushaj
Engqvist

that's not a plum choice of players who could realistically step in and play a full-time role in case of serious injury.

adding an NHL caliber bottom-6 player would also bode well from an internal competition pov, as right now none of those guys would be any serious challenge for ice time unless someone gets hurt.

adding a Madden or Clark would make for some competition to stay out of the press box

frankly i still don't get why they didn't just bring back Pyatt. He was ideally suited to be that 4th line /press box player.


Defensive depth is better, but we still could definitely use a better option to round out our top-4, as one of Gill/Spacek (unless Weber/Emelin do enough to convince Martin otherwise) are currently pencilled in to that spot.

Still nothing on Madden but I read somewhere that Clark will be going to the Bruins camp

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Old
09-13-2011, 11:42 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
Are we just going to look at it? Hope the 4 million laces them up and helps salvage our questionable D? Maybe the 4 million can play center and make up for the lackluster ~65 points that Gomez and Eller will combine for.

So what gives for this year?
It's interesting because Gauthier was prepared to spend a fair amount of that but it didn't come to fruition. After that he spent a measily 650,000 or so on Woywitka. The Habs have tremendous depth at the 5th, 6th and 7th d-men spots and a lot of question marks in the top four.

Depth amongst the forwards isn't anything to write home about either. Eller and Pacioretty are coming off some major injuries and who knows what Gomez will do. DD is at best IMO a third line center. His play fell off when he was forced up the depth chart. And the forwards remain relatively small. Cole is a nice addition but has his own injury history.

Emelin is a great addition and I'm excited to seem him play. Many have high hopes but his style of play may not be something the rest of the team can back up and we'll see him added to the list of players that end up being perceived as "soft".

Gauthier once said you can always create cap space. It appears to me he was ready to spend it but couldn't. So many things can change by next year that I'm not buying the theory he's saving for Price and Subban.

The only thing I do know is that the four mil can't defend, score and punish and all of those are areas in which the Habs could use some improvement IMO. I just don't think overall the Habs improved all that much despite the fact Markov will be back. He's the biggest question mark of all.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:36 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
In a previous post, you criticize Gauthier for not using the cap space in July and addressing our needs, which CLEARLY was, lack of size in top 6, depth and lack of puck moving skills from the back end. That's right genius, having a protector that plays 5minutes a game was not a priority.
So, Gauthier re-signed Weber, Markov, Gorges, that all improve the puck moving from the back end, drastically. He also finally signed our beloved Russian prospect, Emelin, from Russia, who just flourished over there last season and proved to be a very good puck mover as well.
So, ''Improve puck moving from Defense'', Check.

He also signed Cole who finished top 10 in checks last season on top of scoring 26goals, and brought back AK, who, despite popular belief, is a sure lock for 40pts. We are no longer talking about a top 6, but more of a top 9.
So, ''Add size top 6 and improve depth'', Check.

Now, if for whatever reason you don't like these moves, that's your opinion, but Gauthier absolutely went after our needs.
Also, if that ''protector'' player your ******* over of having, was our ''need'', he can still sign one. It has nothing to do with the cap. He didn't miss out on anybody of that role, at all.

I don't really know what you're talking about when you say we're 1-2 injuries from having an unproven youngster carry this team. If Cole and Gorges get injured, it's gonna be up to who to carry this team? DD, Eller, MaxPac, Weber, Emelin? Or guys like Cammy, Gionta, Plek, Gomez, AK, Markov, PK, Gill, Spacek??
Truth is, we are far from having to rely on youngsters to carry this team. These young players can put us over the edge. They can make our team a very, very performing one, but they won't have the pressure to carry our team, and even if they simply produce at a decent rate, we'll still be very good.

For some reason, you also whine about having that sum of money if we go through injuries. Having this room actually helps in case of injuries. That way, if some players get injured, but not long enough to warrant being placed on LTIR, we can still try to find a replacement without worrying about shedding salary. It's actually a very wise decision. But hey, you have your ''I hate PG and Martin'' Jersey on, that looks more like a tattoo by now, so you really can't see much good in anything they do. Heck, you can't even credit Gauthier for filling our most obvious need.

It's quite pathetic. Spare me your sarcastic response too. I don't intend on going in a circular non-sensical debate with you. Just wanted to say my peace on this subject.

I still think that you are an awesome poster.

Having said that, we are still lacking sufficient depth at forward. Palushaj and Engqvist were good when they played for the Habs last season. They still need work in Hamilton to develop their game. Same for Trotter and Blunden.

I do agree with you. No need to argue in a circle when we are about to see the season unfold before our eyes. We will see if we needed a tougher lineup, better Dmen or another top 6 forward. And we will also see if having a pile of cash will help this team on the ice.

And finally, we will once again see if JM can bring the Habs to the promised land or if he will continue along the path of being a good coach with average results.

Cheers.

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Old
09-13-2011, 01:53 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I still think that you are an awesome poster.

Having said that, we are still lacking sufficient depth at forward. Palushaj and Engqvist were good when they played for the Habs last season. They still need work in Hamilton to develop their game. Same for Trotter and Blunden.

I do agree with you. No need to argue in a circle when we are about to see the season unfold before our eyes. We will see if we needed a tougher lineup, better Dmen or another top 6 forward. And we will also see if having a pile of cash will help this team on the ice.

And finally, we will once again see if JM can bring the Habs to the promised land or if he will continue along the path of being a good coach with average results.

Cheers.
Gauthier needlessly spent an asset acquiring Dominic Moore, who was a late October signing and could have been added for nothing.

Gauthier traded away O'Byrne at almost the precise moment his value as an inexpensive NHL-ready depth player was needed.

See where I am going with this. With a modicum of forethought (notice I didn't say foresight) the team would have been in an equal or better situation and would probably still have 2 assets in the fold.

I am not holding my breath for a shoring up of the depth on the roster .

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09-13-2011, 03:17 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Gauthier needlessly spent an asset acquiring Dominic Moore, who was a late October signing and could have been added for nothing.
This is the second time you say this. I let it go the first time because I didn't see the point in responding to a useless comment made only to bash PG, but I'm bored now so what the heck.
PG was not the GM in October, it was Gainey. So no, he didn't needlessly give up an asset (a 2nd round pick, not a huge asset) for a player he could have signed earlier seeing how he wasn't the one making the decisions.
For all we know, Gauthier could have advised Gainey to sign Moore back in October.

But hey, ''gnagnagna Gauthier sucks gnagnagna...''

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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Gauthier traded away O'Byrne at almost the precise moment his value as an inexpensive NHL-ready depth player was needed.
Gauthier traded away a defenseman when we already had 8 on the active roster, with another one knocking at the door in Weber.
Unfortunately, the game after he made this trade, we lost Markov, and not too long after, Gorges.
But did you forget that we got Bournival in return??? Are you not pleased with this prospect?

So, in one trade, you blame Gauthier for not signing an UFA and then giving up an asset for him at the deadline (although he wasn't the GM in October..), in the other trade you say he traded away O'Byrne when his value was needed despite him being the 7-8th D and not even outplaying Picard. You also don't mention the fact Gauthier got a good prospect in return. Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
See where I am going with this. With a modicum of forethought (notice I didn't say foresight) the team would have been in an equal or better situation and would probably still have 2 assets in the fold.
Well, we got an asset in return for O'Byrne, so you should have said we could have still had our 2nd round pick (boohoo), but as I said, he wasn't the GM during summer 09. He became the GM on February 8th 2010, Dominic Moore signed with the Panthers October 4th 2009. You need to look at a calender to see which date is ahead of the other??
Also, getting Moore at the deadline, 3days after becoming the official GM, proved to be very helpful. I would trade away a 2nd round pick for a Conference Final run any day of the week. But hey, keeping whining about the signing he could have made as an Assistant, we all know Assistant sign players all the time..

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I am not holding my breath for a shoring up of the depth on the roster .
Don't hold your breath, but maybe you should get a clue.

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Old
09-13-2011, 04:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
This is the second time you say this. I let it go the first time because I didn't see the point in responding to a useless comment made only to bash PG, but I'm bored now so what the heck.
PG was not the GM in October, it was Gainey. So no, he didn't needlessly give up an asset (a 2nd round pick, not a huge asset) for a player he could have signed earlier seeing how he wasn't the one making the decisions.
For all we know, Gauthier could have advised Gainey to sign Moore back in October.

But hey, ''gnagnagna Gauthier sucks gnagnagna...''


Gauthier traded away a defenseman when we already had 8 on the active roster, with another one knocking at the door in Weber.
Unfortunately, the game after he made this trade, we lost Markov, and not too long after, Gorges.
But did you forget that we got Bournival in return??? Are you not pleased with this prospect?

So, in one trade, you blame Gauthier for not signing an UFA and then giving up an asset for him at the deadline (although he wasn't the GM in October..), in the other trade you say he traded away O'Byrne when his value was needed despite him being the 7-8th D and not even outplaying Picard. You also don't mention the fact Gauthier got a good prospect in return. Awesome.



Well, we got an asset in return for O'Byrne, so you should have said we could have still had our 2nd round pick (boohoo), but as I said, he wasn't the GM during summer 09. He became the GM on February 8th 2010, Dominic Moore signed with the Panthers October 4th 2009. You need to look at a calender to see which date is ahead of the other??
Also, getting Moore at the deadline, 3days after becoming the official GM, proved to be very helpful. I would trade away a 2nd round pick for a Conference Final run any day of the week. But hey, keeping whining about the signing he could have made as an Assistant, we all know Assistant sign players all the time..



Don't hold your breath, but maybe you should get a clue.
I was quite certain that this board's minister of propaganda was going to respond so thank you for not disappointing me.

So, we are to take your story that the team's second in command (who it has been suggested may have actually been making team decisions for some time) was in an entire disconnect with Gainey and that they were acting as though Gainey's files were passed over on the day Gainey stepped aside. That's pretty much an admission you have no knowledge of how organizations are compartmentalized or work.

Your assertions fit your role/schtick on this board, that second rounders outbound are valueless and inbound plugs like Bournival are brilliance even when proven otherwise. You practice these lines so completely that even in the face of nearly immediate information that shows an incorrect assessment you cling to your management story like you are testifying before congress.

Other peoples concerns about the unsustainability of PG's approach and the loose spending of assets is valid, you need to get over yourself and join a discussion of these things. If you can't do that then hit the ignore button this isn't your board Mr. Minister.

I'm confining my argument to these examples however there are others that prove that PG's mindset is operational and less forward thinking than the job requires. Others should be able to join in without your adle minded and childish attacks. Your emotional retorts to the defence of the GM is what I would expect from one of his family members which I assume you are not.

As long as people choose to be fooled by unspectacular management that fails to bolster the lineup in September in favour of acquiring shiny new objects in February this team will gravitate to the 6th-10th position in the conference and stay there.

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Old
09-13-2011, 04:12 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
So, we are to take your story that the team's second in command (who it has been suggested may have actually been making team decisions for some time) was in an entire disconnect with Gainey and that they were acting as though Gainey's files were passed over on the day Gainey stepped aside. That's pretty much an admission you have no knowledge of how organizations are compartmentalized or work.
should share with everyone how GM and asst GM works in the NHL.

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09-13-2011, 04:16 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
looking at our current roster again, i really hope that PG is in talks, or has his eyes firmly set on a UFA depth forward to bring in.

right now we have very weak depth at fwd in case of injury...

as it stands, our first injury call-up will have to come from:
Blunden
Trotter
Palushaj
Engqvist

that's not a plum choice of players who could realistically step in and play a full-time role in case of serious injury.

adding an NHL caliber bottom-6 player would also bode well from an internal competition pov, as right now none of those guys would be any serious challenge for ice time unless someone gets hurt.

adding a Madden or Clark would make for some competition to stay out of the press box

frankly i still don't get why they didn't just bring back Pyatt. He was ideally suited to be that 4th line /press box player.


Defensive depth is better, but we still could definitely use a better option to round out our top-4, as one of Gill/Spacek (unless Weber/Emelin do enough to convince Martin otherwise) are currently pencilled in to that spot.
I think there are 2-3 guys not in the top 6 that could step up in case of injuries...AK, Eller and Desharnais come to mind, even Darche. If we need an AHL callup Plushaj and Trotter are more than qualified.

I think up front the two things I would like to see is...1-a faceoff/pk center for the 4th line 2-an enforcer(but that doesn't seem to be in JM/PG's plans). Those are two very specialized areas though, in terms of scoring depth and general NHL depth, we should be more than fine up front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Gauthier needlessly spent an asset acquiring Dominic Moore, who was a late October signing and could have been added for nothing.

Gauthier traded away O'Byrne at almost the precise moment his value as an inexpensive NHL-ready depth player was needed.

See where I am going with this. With a modicum of forethought (notice I didn't say foresight) the team would have been in an equal or better situation and would probably still have 2 assets in the fold.

I am not holding my breath for a shoring up of the depth on the roster .
Moore's situation is similar to Belanger's. They both signed with teams who didn't have a lot of depth at center hoping to get lots of ice time, put up points and get a nice long term contract.

Neither of those guys would have signed here to be #4 center.

OB was traded after Markov came back, he was basically #7 or 8 at the time and JM for some reason fell in love with Picard, there was no way of knowing Markov and Gorges would have season ending injuries and Picard would turn into Patrick Traverse.


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Old
09-13-2011, 04:34 PM
  #111
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Sit on the 4m for the whole season and have enough cumulative cap space for trade deadline rental(s)?

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09-13-2011, 04:59 PM
  #112
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I think there are 2-3 guys not in the top 6 that could step up in case of injuries...AK, Eller and Desharnais come to mind, even Darche. If we need an AHL callup Plushaj and Trotter are more than qualified.

I think up front the two things I would like to see is...1-a faceoff/pk center for the 4th line 2-an enforcer(but that doesn't seem to be in JM/PG's plans). Those are two very specialized areas though, in terms of scoring depth and general NHL depth, we should be more than fine up front.
John Madden makes so much sense, it's really a shame that he hasn't already been signed.

- consistently over 50% in faceoffs
- still effective playing a major PK role (2+min/game)
- still able to effectively manage 12-15min/game
- content to play specialized role
- veteran cup winner with different teams
- played several years with Gionta/Gomez and with a tight coaching system
- not likely to cost more than 1.5M, or require more than 1 year deal

it really shapes up to be the perfect fit for our needs.

Bring Madden in, head into the season with a 4th line of Moen-Madden-Darche, with White able to move in/out of the lineup for injury/rest issues.

better to fill that spot and boost our depth now, while it costs nothing and we have the cap space to do it AND remain flexible for later roster moves, then to go into the season crossing fingers that young/inexperienced guys can fill the holes... especially knowing that our coach is far more likely to want veteran experience and far less likely to tolerate the growing pains a guy like Palushaj or Trotter will go through trying to play "the system".


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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Moore's situation is similar to Belanger's. They both signed with teams who didn't have a lot of depth at center hoping to get lots of ice time, put up points and get a nice long term contract.

Neither of those guys would have signed here to be #4 center.

OB was traded after Markov came back, he was basically #7 or 8 at the time and JM for some reason fell in love with Picard, there was no way of knowing Markov and Gorges would have season ending injuries and Picard would turn into Patrick Traverse.
we went into the 09'-10 season without depth at centre, which is what forced us to make a move for Moore later in season and give up that asset.
We had Lapierre/Metropolit behind Plekanec/Gomez, with only young inexperienced guys like White, Desharnais, Maxwell and Pyatt as further depth.

we didn't have the cap space to fill that need heading into the season b/c of how wildly we spent landing Gomez/Cammy/Spacek/Gionta, and pretty clearly in retrospect, money could have been spent much more wisely... but that's another discussion.

trading O'byrne at the time, when he was an ideal #7, and with your top dman returning from serious injury, was a pretty bonehead move. No need to "cut the losses" at that point, and while Bournival is looking like a nice young prospect, O'byrne emerged into a bonafide top-4 NHL dman, big mobile and physical, EXACTLY what our defense needed last year, and still could use this year.

as much as JM forced the issue by favoring Picard (another bonehead evaluation, one that further cost us as we then traded assets to get Mara/Sopel, depth dmen clearly less effective than O'byrne is), it is ultimately PG's job as GM to make the astute roster moves...

trading away NHL-caliber defensive depth (not too mention cheap/young depth) for a prospect, only to later trade away picks/prospects to get NHL-caliber depth is pretty foolish and a bad way to manage the teams assets.

in that regard, it would make a lot of sense for the team to add at least 1 veteran depth NHLer now, heading or during camp, then to wait until it is a big enough need to force us to waste assets to fill that same need we can reasonably forsee at this time.

i like that we finally have some cap room heading into the season, and would be very much against simply spending for the sake of it b/c i do think some quality bigger moves can be made in-season if you have the flexibility, but when there are visible holes that can reasonably filled quickly and cheaply, hard to understand why they would hesitate.

very interested to see how this training camp season plays out, given all the RFA's still un-signed and the amount of of roster moves still waiting to be made in part b/c of those uncertainties, i think we may be in store for another wave of movement and i could see us being a small player in that process.

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09-13-2011, 05:22 PM
  #113
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Gauthier traded away a defenseman when we already had 8 on the active roster, with another one knocking at the door in Weber.
Unfortunately, the game after he made this trade, we lost Markov, and not too long after, Gorges.
But did you forget that we got Bournival in return??? Are you not pleased with this prospect?
Gauthier is following the mold of his predecessor Gainey.

The Montreal Canadiens will ALWAYS be primed and ready to win the Stanley CUP in three years. Year after year, through mismanagement of assets and trades/signings that make you go , we are still primed to win the Cup in three years.

Of course, we were supposed to win the Cup in three years 5, 10, 15 etc years ago.

It is a shame that the greatest sports franchise on the planet has been led lately by GM's who really do not have a very good grasp of management principles and what it takes to win a championship.

The crony system in Montreal needs to go. We need some fresh blood with fresh ideas on how to win it all.

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09-13-2011, 05:28 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Gauthier is following the mold of his predecessor Gainey.

The Montreal Canadiens will ALWAYS be primed and ready to win the Stanley CUP in three years. Year after year, through mismanagement of assets and trades/signings that make you go , we are still primed to win the Cup in three years.

Of course, we were supposed to win the Cup in three years 5, 10, 15 etc years ago.

It is a shame that the greatest sports franchise on the planet has been led lately by GM's who really do not have a very good grasp of management principles and what it takes to win a championship.

The crony system in Montreal needs to go. We need some fresh blood with fresh ideas on how to win it all.
When PG's tenure is up, please apply for the job...I hope you are bilingual, it will help considerably when dealing with the media at your press conferences...

I have faith, you will bring us our 25th Cup!

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09-13-2011, 05:36 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Gauthier is following the mold of his predecessor Gainey.

The Montreal Canadiens will ALWAYS be primed and ready to win the Stanley CUP in three years. Year after year, through mismanagement of assets and trades/signings that make you go , we are still primed to win the Cup in three years.

Of course, we were supposed to win the Cup in three years 5, 10, 15 etc years ago.

It is a shame that the greatest sports franchise on the planet has been led lately by GM's who really do not have a very good grasp of management principles and what it takes to win a championship.

The crony system in Montreal needs to go. We need some fresh blood with fresh ideas on how to win it all.
What crony system would you use?

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post

we went into the 09'-10 season without depth at centre, which is what forced us to make a move for Moore later in season and give up that asset.
We had Lapierre/Metropolit behind Plekanec/Gomez, with only young inexperienced guys like White, Desharnais, Maxwell and Pyatt as further depth.

we didn't have the cap space to fill that need heading into the season b/c of how wildly we spent landing Gomez/Cammy/Spacek/Gionta, and pretty clearly in retrospect, money could have been spent much more wisely... but that's another discussion.

trading O'byrne at the time, when he was an ideal #7, and with your top dman returning from serious injury, was a pretty bonehead move. No need to "cut the losses" at that point, and while Bournival is looking like a nice young prospect, O'byrne emerged into a bonafide top-4 NHL dman, big mobile and physical, EXACTLY what our defense needed last year, and still could use this year.

as much as JM forced the issue by favoring Picard (another bonehead evaluation, one that further cost us as we then traded assets to get Mara/Sopel, depth dmen clearly less effective than O'byrne is), it is ultimately PG's job as GM to make the astute roster moves...

trading away NHL-caliber defensive depth (not too mention cheap/young depth) for a prospect, only to later trade away picks/prospects to get NHL-caliber depth is pretty foolish and a bad way to manage the teams assets.

in that regard, it would make a lot of sense for the team to add at least 1 veteran depth NHLer now, heading or during camp, then to wait until it is a big enough need to force us to waste assets to fill that same need we can reasonably forsee at this time.

i like that we finally have some cap room heading into the season, and would be very much against simply spending for the sake of it b/c i do think some quality bigger moves can be made in-season if you have the flexibility, but when there are visible holes that can reasonably filled quickly and cheaply, hard to understand why they would hesitate.

very interested to see how this training camp season plays out, given all the RFA's still un-signed and the amount of of roster moves still waiting to be made in part b/c of those uncertainties, i think we may be in store for another wave of movement and i could see us being a small player in that process.
We did come into 09-10 with pretty good depth at center. Moore was looking for a team where he could contend for a #1 or 2 center spot(see Belanger last year). Lapierre was coming off a 15 goal year and we had Gomez and Plekanec. Wouldn't fit what Moore was looking for.

They didn't "cut their losses" in trading O'byrne. He dropped to #8 and they were able to get a pretty solid prospect in Bournival. JM preferred Picard to OB. I'm sure OB's agent was calling looking for a trade with his client being a RFA after the season.


Last edited by Mike8: 09-13-2011 at 05:40 PM. Reason: merge
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09-13-2011, 05:40 PM
  #116
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Moore's situation is similar to Belanger's. They both signed with teams who didn't have a lot of depth at center hoping to get lots of ice time, put up points and get a nice long term contract.

Neither of those guys would have signed here to be #4 center.

OB was traded after Markov came back, he was basically #7 or 8 at the time and JM for some reason fell in love with Picard, there was no way of knowing Markov and Gorges would have season ending injuries and Picard would turn into Patrick Traverse.
True, but Gauthier is not paid to just make trades (otherwise any one of us could do his job) he's paid to manage the team and get results in the short term and long term. Trading the wrong player "for some reason" should not happen for a professional manager even if that reason is his coach. Do I expect perfection, no. But I expect to be heading toward a championship with a succession of moves that nudges the team in that direction.

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09-13-2011, 05:49 PM
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True, but Gauthier is not paid to just make trades (otherwise any one of us could do his job) he's paid to manage the team and get results in the short term and long term. Trading the wrong player "for some reason" should not happen for a professional manager even if that reason is his coach. Do I expect perfection, no. But I expect to be heading toward a championship with a succession of moves that nudges the team in that direction.
The Habs are a heck of a lot closer to a championship than they were 8-10 or even 3 years ago(Koivu/Kovalev team).

Lots of quality players have been added/developped in the last 5 years...Price Subban Pacioretty Cammy Gionta Cole Eller Desharnais Yemelin Gill Gorges Weber are all guys that are currently above average player or have the potential to be within a couple years.

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09-13-2011, 05:50 PM
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Gauthier is following the mold of his predecessor Gainey.

The Montreal Canadiens will ALWAYS be primed and ready to win the Stanley CUP in three years. Year after year, through mismanagement of assets and trades/signings that make you go , we are still primed to win the Cup in three years.

Of course, we were supposed to win the Cup in three years 5, 10, 15 etc years ago.

It is a shame that the greatest sports franchise on the planet has been led lately by GM's who really do not have a very good grasp of management principles and what it takes to win a championship.

The crony system in Montreal needs to go. We need some fresh blood with fresh ideas on how to win it all.
Agree 100 percent. The problem is that you need to find a manager that is not just perpetually keeping his job like a politician in an election year. That's Gauthier. You can't have an old guard GM who doesn't have the nimbleness to manage within the modern game. That was Gainey. You need a Moneyball type innovator.

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09-13-2011, 05:53 PM
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Agree 100 percent. The problem is that you need to find a manager that is not just perpetually keeping his job like a politician in an election year. That's Gauthier. You can't have an old guard GM who doesn't have the nimbleness to manage within the modern game. That was Gainey. You need a Moneyball type innovator.
So we need a GM that only drafts college players?

Gauthier is a lot more of a "modern" Gm than Gainey who won pre salary cap in Dallas. Trading Halak and keeping Price is progressive thinking.

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09-13-2011, 06:14 PM
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When PG's tenure is up, please apply for the job...I hope you are bilingual, it will help considerably when dealing with the media at your press conferences...

I have faith, you will bring us our 25th Cup!
I know that this can be a standard reply on a message board........if you criticize someone then take up the challenge to do better.

Of course I will apply for the job. Of course I will not get it.

Putting your flippant reply aside, the reality remains that the Canadiens franchise has not come close to a Stanley Cup for a long long time. And despite having a very talented team this year, a lack of depth at forward and other needs (there is another thread regarding that need ) will have this team relying on absolute good luck and good health to make a run at the Cup.

Relying on luck can only get you so far though.

With regard to the crony system. This may be a little touchy to some people but it needs to be asked.

Do we need/require/demand a Québécois as a GM? This is, after all, 2011. A lot of White Americans voted for a black man to be their president. My manager was born in Mexico. The GM of the Green Bay (Wisconsin) Packers, Ted Thompson, was born in Atlanta Texas........Wisconsin and Texas have absolutely nothing in common except being in the United States.

Do we need to hold on to "sameness" as a security blanket even as we fail to win the Cup year after year?

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09-13-2011, 06:18 PM
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What crony system would you use?



We did come into 09-10 with pretty good depth at center. Moore was looking for a team where he could contend for a #1 or 2 center spot(see Belanger last year). Lapierre was coming off a 15 goal year and we had Gomez and Plekanec. Wouldn't fit what Moore was looking for.
I think what Moore was primarily looking for, was a pay day... that's why he didn't go back to the leafs, where he would have had exactly that top-6 opportunity (he got traded b/c he wanted more money than Burke was willing to re-sign him for, at the time he was playing the best hockey of his career and was a in a top-6 spot). If his priority was getting the right playing situation, he would have stuck in Toronto.

Signing with the Panthers for 1.1M$ on a 1-year deal on the starting day of the season wasn't the result of finding the best "fit" for playing time, it was a guy who overvalued himself and had to settle for whatever was left.

That september, once JM got into camp, he and BG should have been on the same firm page as far as the role young players would get, Martin, as he's shown throughout his career, favors vets and favors guys who are very defensively responsible... that Lapierre wilted and eventually was moved out of town is something they should have seen as a possibility.

Metropolit, coming off a 17pt season, and Lapierre as the extent of the NHL depth at centre behind Gomez/Plekanec (who was coming off of a very disappointing year himself), was a poorly executed roster decision, one that cost the team a 2nd round pick later in the year, and this WITHOUT an injury forcing the issue...

but Gainey also did have his hands tied to start the season given how much money he had thrown around that summer, so by september we had no choice but to cross our fingers that our weak centre depth would hold out, which it didn't.

Quote:
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They didn't "cut their losses" in trading O'byrne. He dropped to #8 and they were able to get a pretty solid prospect in Bournival. JM preferred Picard to OB. I'm sure OB's agent was calling looking for a trade with his client being a RFA after the season.
yes, he had dropped to 7-8th on the depth chart (thanks to JM's infinite wisdom evaluating/developing young players), but you NEED to be 8 players deep in NHL depth to make a serious playoff run...

we later went out and traded away:
4th
5th
Ben Maxwell

in order to get back to 8 players deep before the playoffs.

yes, Gorges going done contributed to that, but so did the eventual decision that Picard wasn't good enough for that role.

Bournival is a nice prospect, and looks to be on the right track to far exceed his 3rd round draft spot, but trading away NHL depth in-season for depth prospects is a puzzling move for a team with stated playoff ambitions, and downright counter-productive for a team that is willing to move other young assets/picks later on to bulk up their roster for the playoffs.

No indications surfaced that O'byrne pushed the issue, and anything you read from him implies the opposite... that he was wiling to bide his time and work his way into a roster spot with the habs.

the mistakes were two-fold:

- Martin making the faulty decision that Picard was a better option for the role of depth dman
- PG deciding to pull the trigger when he did

the only real argument that supports the move would be that PG & the habs scouting team were absolutely set on acquiring Bournival, and coveted him enough to risk (as they did) weakening the teams ability to challenge for a deep playoff run this year.

that I could understand, but it only prove valid if Bournival turns out to be more valuable than O'byrne + (since keeping O'byrne would have meant either hanging on to the 5th or the 4th/Maxwell)


i hope the kid does just that!

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09-13-2011, 06:24 PM
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I have never understood the defense of O'byrne on this board.

The guy is one of the dumbest players I have ever seen on the team, and never did ANYTHING for this club, never showed any signs of consistency. No offensive ability, and not even good defensively.

He didn't crack the roster for 5 years straight.

WTF do you expect?

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09-13-2011, 06:26 PM
  #123
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I know that this can be a standard reply on a message board........if you criticize someone then take up the challenge to do better.

Of course I will apply for the job. Of course I will not get it.

Putting your flippant reply aside, the reality remains that the Canadiens franchise has not come close to a Stanley Cup for a long long time. And despite having a very talented team this year, a lack of depth at forward and other needs (there is another thread regarding that need ) will have this team relying on absolute good luck and good health to make a run at the Cup.

Relying on luck can only get you so far though.

With regard to the crony system. This may be a little touchy to some people but it needs to be asked.

Do we need/require/demand a Québécois as a GM? This is, after all, 2011. A lot of White Americans voted for a black man to be their president. My manager was born in Mexico. The GM of the Green Bay (Wisconsin) Packers, Ted Thompson, was born in Atlanta Texas........Wisconsin and Texas have absolutely nothing in common except being in the United States.

Do we need to hold on to "sameness" as a security blanket even as we fail to win the Cup year after year?
To your point, do you think Lou Lamoriello would have ever been given a chance to GM in Montreal. I don't.

What are the chances of him taking his Devils back to the Cup before a Gauthier does.

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09-13-2011, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I have never understood the defense of O'byrne on this board.

The guy is one of the dumbest players I have ever seen on the team, and never did ANYTHING for this club, never showed any signs of consistency. No offensive ability, and not even good defensively.

He didn't crack the roster for 5 years straight.

WTF do you expect?
but he's 6'5 235 lbs.

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09-13-2011, 06:36 PM
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Viggo Mortensen
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I have never understood the defense of O'byrne on this board.

The guy is one of the dumbest players I have ever seen on the team, and never did ANYTHING for this club, never showed any signs of consistency. No offensive ability, and not even good defensively.

He didn't crack the roster for 5 years straight.

WTF do you expect?
+ he scored in his own net the night I was there

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