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Old
09-13-2011, 01:20 PM
  #126
raab
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
We all know what Hemsky is capable of when he's healthy. The problem is he hardly ever is. If there is a lesson they should have learned from Souray and Horcoff signings is that you do not sign to big contracts players with history of serious injuries. Ales Hemsky playing 80 games a season is easily a 5 million dollar player. Ales Hemsky averaging 40 games a season during the course of his contract is a waste of valuable cap space that's better used elsewhere.
If Hemsky is put on the LTIR during the season you can use that cap space to bring in help at the deadline. And for the record I'm not against trading Hemsky but there has to be at least an NHL caliber player coming back. We won't have room on the roster to bring up all the young guys we have as it is. Also if you should be worried about anyone with a injury history it should be Whitney. He's had the same problem since he came into the league and from everything I've heard this new surgery hasn't gone so well, but there's no talk of trading him.


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09-13-2011, 01:45 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
If Hemsky is put on the LTIR during the season you can use that cap space to bring in help at the deadline. And for the record I'm not against trading Hemsky but there has to be at least an NHL caliber player coming back. We won't have too on the roster to bring up all the young guys we have as it is. Also if you should be worried about anyone with a injury history it should be Whitney. He's had the same problem since he came into the league and from everything I've heard this new surgery hasn't gone so well, but there's no talk of trading him.
If Hemsky finishes the season on the LTIR the Oilers are pooched. He'll walk July 1st and the Oilers will get nothing. The time to move 83 has passed. Steve held out for far too much in return and lost that gamble bigtime. If the Oilers are anywhere near the man games lost like last season, why even replace them, just bring career AHL'ers up to insure the best lottery pick possible.

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09-13-2011, 02:16 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I highly doubt it, that would be very unfair to him, he has been the face of the franchise while it wallows in losing based on the decision of ownership and management and then you don't give him a chance to see it through when it's time to turn it around?
Was Tambo not part of that group?

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09-13-2011, 02:39 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
If Hemsky finishes the season on the LTIR the Oilers are pooched. He'll walk July 1st and the Oilers will get nothing. The time to move 83 has passed. Steve held out for far too much in return and lost that gamble bigtime. If the Oilers are anywhere near the man games lost like last season, why even replace them, just bring career AHL'ers up to insure the best lottery pick possible.
I'd like to have your crystal ball, still lots of time between now and the end of the season and I have a feeling Hemsky plays over 70 games this year. Also the LTIR wasn't for this year it was for his next contract if he does sign as some posters are concerned about him taking up cap space going forward.

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09-13-2011, 03:00 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
You realize Tomas Kaberle got a top prospect and a first, right? Dustin Penner got the same. A mid to late first and a very good prospect is not unreasonable. We are talking about a playoff teams pick, not a top 5.
Well, if Colbourne and Teubert are your definition of top prospect--then yes, he will fetch that.

I was thinking more in terms of Johansson, B.Schenn, A. Larsson, O.Ekman-Larsson.

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09-13-2011, 03:24 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Well, if Colbourne and Teubert are your definition of top prospect--then yes, he will fetch that.

I was thinking more in terms of Johansson, B.Schenn, A. Larsson, O.Ekman-Larsson.
doubt any of these potential franchise guys are up for trade talks.

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09-13-2011, 03:46 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
doubt any of these potential franchise guys are up for trade talks.
Exactly my point.

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09-13-2011, 05:01 PM
  #133
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I miss the playoffs and would love to see us in there again. Realistically, I can't see it happening, but I'll be cheering every win along the way. Until/unless it's painfully obvious by the deadline that we are way out of it, then we might as well make the most of it while we're down there and get a 1st or 2nd overall. And then pull out all the stops to sign/trade for a top pairing Dman in the offseason. If one of the guys in our lineup steps up and proves to be a legit top 3/4 guy this year, that would leave us sitting pretty going into 2012-2013.

Whitney - UFA/Trade (Suter or Weber?)
Gilbert - Petry maybe?
Smid - Peckham

That could be a solid D corps. Maybe not Cup caliber yet, but certainly playoff quality.

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09-13-2011, 08:16 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Chemistry and Hockey IQ are things that coaches look at when making their lineups, it is a reality whether you want to accept it or not.
Sure they "look at" it . But that's a long way from making it the "anchor" for two man pairs that you suggested in your earlier post. Chemistry can also be developed . In some cases it may take more than a five game audition to find .

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If you watched the games last year you wouldn't need to ask this question.
I watched the games as you well know . While I thought MPS did OK mostly what I saw from him was a kid who was so worried about being a defensive liability that he bailed on the offensive zone too quickly . I was wondering who you thought he did have chemistry with since you seem to be a better judge of that elusive quality than I am . I like MPS well enough but it seems to me that you are prematurely putting a lot of eggs in that basket .

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Of course you think that I'm wrong, that's why you're debating me, tell me why I'm wrong.
I already did . 1)This team owes Hemsky some loyalty that none of the kids has yet earned and 2) Hall is the only one of the so called "Big 3" that to my mind will absolutely be a better player than Hemsky . Bird in the hand etc .

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In Hemsky I see a player that while extremely talented is injury prone, will be asking for a lot of $, and is an UFA at seasons end.
Are you certain that none of your "Big 3" will become injury prone ? Hall has already been injured . Are you certain that none of them will start asking for the moon the minute their ELCs are up ? Are you certain that they all want to stay in Edmonton ?

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Hemsky would do well for himself by staying healthy, not asking for the moon in terms of cap hit and contract length, and he shows chemistry with one of the kids.
Again I find the bolded phrase dismissive of Hemsky's talent and contributions to the team to date. And I can pretty much guarantee that's not the stance his agent will be taking .

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Old
09-13-2011, 08:29 PM
  #135
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Interesting tidbit that I think ties into this conversation... Kevin Lowe just said on 630 CHED that he didn't think they had what they needed to make the playoffs this year, but they might be close.

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09-13-2011, 08:41 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Interesting tidbit that I think ties into this conversation... Kevin Lowe just said on 630 CHED that he didn't think they had what they needed to make the playoffs this year, but they might be close.
They have greatly improved their bottom 6 (Smyth, Belanger, Eager, Hordichuk, possibly Lander).

But they are still short of 1C and a pair of top 4 d-men.

Hopefully, RNH becomes a long term solution and is ready to contribute as early as next season. I think they will have to sign a veteran D-man next summer.

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09-13-2011, 08:41 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
Was Tambo not part of that group?
Yes, and it seems to have been understood that this was the road that they would take so why would he be punished for it?

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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Sure they "look at" it . But that's a long way from making it the "anchor" for two man pairs that you suggested in your earlier post. Chemistry can also be developed . In some cases it may take more than a five game audition to find .
Agreed that sometimes chemistry takes awhile, however in some cases it comes pretty damn quick as well.

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I watched the games as you well know . While I thought MPS did OK mostly what I saw from him was a kid who was so worried about being a defensive liability that he bailed on the offensive zone too quickly . I was wondering who you thought he did have chemistry with since you seem to be a better judge of that elusive quality than I am . I like MPS well enough but it seems to me that you are prematurely putting a lot of eggs in that basket .
Omark and Paajarvi had very good chemistry together on the cycle and offensively theyw ere one of our better duo's last year IMO when paired together. Paajarvi is far from a finished product, and I agree that he was sometimes too preoccupied with the defensive side of the puck but considering who some of his centers were that might not have been a bad thing. This is why I'd like to see him play with Lander or Belanger.

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I already did . 1)This team owes Hemsky some loyalty that none of the kids has yet earned and 2) Hall is the only one of the so called "Big 3" that to my mind will absolutely be a better player than Hemsky . Bird in the hand etc .
1) As sad as it is there isn't much loyalty in pro sports. Hemsky seemed to leave something on the table last time around and it would be nice to see him rewarded for it especially after seeing guys like Horcoff and Souray making more scratch than Hemsky does. That said it must make sense for the players and the team.

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Are you certain that none of your "Big 3" will become injury prone ? Hall has already been injured . Are you certain that none of them will start asking for the moon the minute their ELCs are up ? Are you certain that they all want to stay in Edmonton ?
All unknowns at this point, however like I said above it's a business so there's no telling what might happen.

Quote:
Again I find the bolded phrase dismissive of Hemsky's talent and contributions to the team to date. And I can pretty much guarantee that's not the stance his agent will be taking .
Of course he won't, his best interest is of the player and himself, that said it takes two in this case and IMO this would bolster his worth to the team which in turn bolsters his bargaining strength IMO.

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Old
09-13-2011, 09:00 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
They have greatly improved their bottom 6 (Smyth, Belanger, Eager, Hordichuk, possibly Lander).

But they are still short of 1C and a pair of top 4 d-men.

Hopefully, RNH becomes a long term solution and is ready to contribute as early as next season. I think they will have to sign a veteran D-man next summer.
Yeah I'm not unfamiliar with the team, thanks. I was merely pointing out a rare moment of honesty from the Oilers brass and where they themselves see this team being at.

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Old
09-13-2011, 11:10 PM
  #139
Alawishis
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
A top 5 pick still seems like a highly probable outcome. Does it matter if they are trying or not?
Yes it does, and it's kind of sad if you don't know why.

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09-14-2011, 01:32 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Interesting tidbit that I think ties into this conversation... Kevin Lowe just said on 630 CHED that he didn't think they had what they needed to make the playoffs this year, but they might be close.
"Didn't" or "doesn't?"

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09-14-2011, 05:59 AM
  #141
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The "viable alternative" you speak of isn't that hard to see . Its called buckling down and doing your job instead of taking the easy way out . I don't know how much clearer I can be . I don't feel like taking a shortcut to the SC . I accept the fact that most pro sports teams are mediocre . I accept the fact that only a handful of teams have won the SC since the Oilers last won in 90 . I realize that if we win the SC once every twenty years we are probably doing pretty well . I understand that even with all the picks Tamby has stocked up there are no guarantees that we will become perennial contenders like so many on the board seem to believe . I reject the attempts by you , Joe and Fourier to characterize me as a member of the "win now crowd" because I don't expect to win all the time . In short I'd be much happier if the team finished in the middle of the pack with an honest effort than if we won the SC by going on the dole .
I didn't characterize you in any way. Certainly not as a member of the "win now crowd". In fact, my whole point was that I don't actually think there was a win now strategy.

The team was broken by the deadline in 2009-2010. The room was caustic, players on too many nights didn't seem to give a damn, no one stood up for one another, and more than anything else they were simply not good enough.

Your opinion is obviously different, but I actually found the 2010-2011 Oilers much more enjoyable to watch than recent teams had been. They were in a lot more games, and it actually looked liked they cared on most nights.

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09-14-2011, 08:56 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Yes, and it seems to have been understood that this was the road that they would take so why would he be punished for it?
They decided to take the rebuild road after Tambo and Lowe had already driven about 30 miles down it with a broken axle. "Welp, no going back now."

And it's not like Tambellini has proven himself to be anything more than an exceedingly mediocre GM (at best) since they decided to go full rebuild. Once the team is ready to make the leap, why not seek out someone with actual experience at building a winner, not some milquetoast also-ran?

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09-14-2011, 08:57 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Alawishis View Post
Yes it does, and it's kind of sad if you don't know why.
Would you be happier if they tried and failed than if they barely tried at all (which seems to be the course of action for this year)?

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09-14-2011, 09:06 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
And it's not like Tambellini has proven himself to be anything more than an exceedingly mediocre GM (at best) since they decided to go full rebuild. Once the team is ready to make the leap, why not seek out someone with actual experience at building a winner, not some milquetoast also-ran?
I hope that is what they do , but I'm starting to lose the little faith I had in Katz as an owner .
Maybe he actually thinks Tamby has what it takes to be an NHL GM .

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09-14-2011, 10:58 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Quicksilver ballet View Post
If Hemsky finishes the season on the LTIR the Oilers are pooched. He'll walk July 1st and the Oilers will get nothing. The time to move 83 has passed. Steve held out for far too much in return and lost that gamble bigtime. If the Oilers are anywhere near the man games lost like last season, why even replace them, just bring career AHL'ers up to insure the best lottery pick possible.
If Hemsky gets injured and goes on the IR, then the best option for both sides is probably a one year extension. I'd say its way too early to say if we lost Tambellini's "gamble" of not trading our best player for maybe's.

And if the Oilers are near the same injury count as the past two years, you don't need to worry, they will have a good chunk of the OKC team playing in Edmonton anyway, lol.

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09-14-2011, 11:01 AM
  #146
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Would you be happier if they tried and failed than if they barely tried at all (which seems to be the course of action for this year)?
If they play their ***** off and still lose, we know that we have a group of guys who just aren't talented enough for the NHL. If they are lazy coasters, we are just feeding the losing culture that we've had for a couple of years now (five or so). We basically tell our young players that its okay to be a lazy sack and not try, because we don't expect them too.

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09-14-2011, 11:34 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
They decided to take the rebuild road after Tambo and Lowe had already driven about 30 miles down it with a broken axle. "Welp, no going back now."

And it's not like Tambellini has proven himself to be anything more than an exceedingly mediocre GM (at best) since they decided to go full rebuild. Once the team is ready to make the leap, why not seek out someone with actual experience at building a winner, not some milquetoast also-ran?
Lowe did the majority of that driving, Moreau, Horcoff, Pisani, Staios, Gilbert, Souray, all were on Lowe. I for on think that he's done a pretty good job in the rebuild, however truth be told if I was running the ship I would've done about 80-90% of the things that he has done so it'd be highly hypocritical of me to bad talk him when we'd be following the same path.

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09-14-2011, 02:37 PM
  #148
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Pre-season could be off the hook this year. Season itself hinges around defense and Whitney is still injured.

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Old
09-14-2011, 02:45 PM
  #149
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If Whitney is injured again this season, what are the odds Marincin gets a few games up?

Pretty low?

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