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09-13-2011, 07:25 PM
  #26
Crease
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Originally Posted by skroob View Post
Ready or not, good enough or not, this is the team will be going to war with the next few seasons.

Richards. Garborik. Callahan. Dubinsky. Staal. Lundquist.

Most of the top roster spots are locked in for years to come. We will win with these guys, or we wont. No major changes for the next few seasons will be coming our way, IMO.

We made our bet, now here come the cards...
I sorta disagree. We need one more legitimate top-six forward to round out our roster. Would love to acquire one in a trade using the plethora of defensive depth we have in the system.

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09-13-2011, 07:55 PM
  #27
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I sorta disagree. We need one more legitimate top-six forward to round out our roster. Would love to acquire one in a trade using the plethora of defensive depth we have in the system.
Yeah we have too many prospects on D and not enough spots for them all. I think that they are going to trade someone like V-Tank and some picks for a top 6 forward

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09-13-2011, 08:25 PM
  #28
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Yeah we have too many prospects on D and not enough spots for them all. I think that they are going to trade someone like V-Tank and some picks for a top 6 forward
I'm not sure you can get a subway ticket for V-Tank and some picks, let alone a top 6 forward.

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09-13-2011, 09:21 PM
  #29
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I'd like to see the team add two things:

1. A legitimate, experienced, top-4 defender. McDonagh, Sauer, Girardi, and Staal is a fine top-4 -- however, none of these players have ever been past the 2nd round of the playoffs. That group needs a mentor and a winner to help guide them through the postseason.

Also, it'd be even better if that defenseman were in the mold of a primary puck mover. Looking around the league, nearly every championship caliber team has/had two legitimate puck moving defenseman. Anaheim had Pronger/Niedermayer in 2007. Detroit had Lidstrom/Rafalski in 2008. Pittsburgh had Letang/Gonchar in 2009. Chicago had Campbell/Keith in 2010. Boston had Kaberle and Chara (to an extent) in 2011. Who do the Rangers have? They haven't had a defenseman score 40 points since before the lockout, and before this team goes anywhere beyond a medicore regular season finish, this needs to change.

2. A legitimate 3rd line RW -- in the mold of a Fedotenko or a Recchi (09 on). An experienced, winning, all-effort two-way forward with a touch of skill.

Right now, in my opinion, the team is far too inexperienced to win a Cup. Of course, that isn't the end all be all of deciding how good this team is. Hopefully the team can go relatively deep on somewhat of a "high", akin to the '09 Blackhawks squad that made it to the Conference Finals. Even if the team does get humbled by a more experienced team as the 'Hawks did, it'll give the young leaders of this team experience, and give them a challenge -- fix the mistakes you made in this series to get farther into the next.

Lastly, before we start determining whether or not this is a cup caliber roster or not, we have to see how Richards fits in with the team on the ice, if Gaborik can shed his "regular season star, postseason dud" title, and if either one of Anisimov/Stepan can take the next step and become a dependable 2nd line center. The pieces are there, so to speak, we just need to see whether or not the players can put them into place.

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09-13-2011, 11:06 PM
  #30
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For this season, I really hope for a deeper, solid run into the 2nd round of the playoffs. Like you, I really see the window being next year.

Absolute shame that Kreider is waiting a year, as I would really love a 2nd year Kreider for next year, opposed to a rookie.

Off the books:
Wolski - 3.8 million
Avery - ~1.9
Feds - 1.4
Zucc - 1.75
Christensen - .925
Eminger -.8
Cap Penalty - .5
Chris Drury Buy-out Difference: 2.1

Over 13 million in cap space with the true core of the team locked up.

Hard to not drool thinking of a possible UFA Parise. LW: Parise-Dubinsky-Kreider
I think of it more like 9 1/2 - 10 mil. I'll keep Feds and Avery. If Wolski turns into what he's supposed to, I'll keep him too. So it could really be more like 6 mil. Either way, it's looking real good.
I'm ready for V-Tank to get a shot.
Wonder when Bourque will be in the conversation...

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09-13-2011, 11:09 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
I think of it more like 9 1/2 - 10 mil. I'll keep Feds and Avery. If Wolski turns into what he's supposed to, I'll keep him too. So it could really be more like 6 mil. Either way, it's looking real good.
I'm ready for V-Tank to get a shot.
Wonder when Bourque will be in the conversation...
What has Avery done to merit another contract?

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09-13-2011, 11:28 PM
  #32
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Rozsival scored 40 points.

But the point is well made. NYR need offense from defense to win the cup.

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09-13-2011, 11:34 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Also, it'd be even better if that defenseman were in the mold of a primary puck mover. Looking around the league, nearly every championship caliber team has/had two legitimate puck moving defenseman. Anaheim had Pronger/Niedermayer in 2007. Detroit had Lidstrom/Rafalski in 2008. Pittsburgh had Letang/Gonchar in 2009. Chicago had Campbell/Keith in 2010. Boston had Kaberle and Chara (to an extent) in 2011. Who do the Rangers have? They haven't had a defenseman score 40 points since before the lockout, and before this team goes anywhere beyond a medicore regular season finish, this needs to change.
I disagree with this whole premise. People need to recognize that Staal and Girardi are pretty damn accomplished at this point. They're not old, but they have the necessary experience. Yes, the Bruins had Kaberle and Chara, but really they had an effective puck moving defenseman in name only. Everyone knows how ineffective Kaberle was during the playoffs and Chara really isn't a puck mover so much as a big shot from the blueline. Nine points in 24 playoff games during their cup run does not speak to him having a major offensive impact. Plus, we will likely have puck movers. Erixon and Del Zotto will likely be on the team. They may see limited even strength minutes, but they will be out there on the powerplay. Also, Rozsival put up 40 in 06-07, but that's nitpicking.

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09-13-2011, 11:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
Rozsival scored 40 points.

But the point is well made. NYR need offense from defense to win the cup.
yea but alot of those were from Jagr and Straka's goal. Rozsival was more of a passer type offensive dman rather than shooting type..



Rangers need a guy that can control the offense from the d who can skate into the zone as well as pass and shoot the puck...


a guy like Dan Boyle or Andrei Markov (if it wasnt for injuries, maybe could get him for less than his value) would be a good addition...

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09-14-2011, 12:41 AM
  #35
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Definitely need another top 6 winger and a top 4 offensive defensemen (especially if Wolski and DZ struggle).

No team is perfect and even teams who have won the cup have made crucial deadline acquisitions to fill in holes. Or they make a trade before the season starts to put them over the top, such as Anaheim trading for Pronger in the summer of '07.

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09-14-2011, 01:11 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
I think of it more like 9 1/2 - 10 mil. I'll keep Feds and Avery. If Wolski turns into what he's supposed to, I'll keep him too. So it could really be more like 6 mil. Either way, it's looking real good.
I'm ready for V-Tank to get a shot.
Wonder when Bourque will be in the conversation...
Hell no! let them all walk. I like feds and i wouldnt mind him as a spare forward but other than that, ill gladly take all that capspace. Avery adds nothing to this team.

The decision about who to keep depends upon how well Zuccs and Wolski perform.

All those defensive decisions will be made during training camp and preseason. But this is the first time in a LONG time that i have had faith in the coaching staff to make the best decisions for this club.

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09-14-2011, 01:33 AM
  #37
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Hi guys, doing some fantasy hockey scouting. What expectations do you guys have of Wolski this year? Is there any realistic chance of him getting some time on the wing with Richards and Gaborik?

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09-14-2011, 03:36 AM
  #38
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The Rangers are very strong down the middle and strong on the wings.

Lundqvist in net. First pair d-Staal-Girardi 2nd pair d McDonagh-Sauer are all solid in their own end. None of the top 4 however are great offensively. The internal answer depends on Erixon or MDZ. Hell we could make a deal for Marc Andre Bergeron and use him just on the pwp as a cheap way of dealing with the problem.

Anyway at center--I'd hesitate to call Richards elite--but he's potentially a HOF'er. A legit 1st line center backed up by two very good young centers Stepan-Anisimov and another kind of young and very huge guy Boyle.

Top 3 wings--Gaborik, Callahan, Dubinsky backed up by a bunch of good character guys like Fedotenko, Prust, Rupp. If Wolski gets his act together and Gaborik returns to form we should have a very good attack. Even our potential spares Avery, Christensen are legit NHL players.

And we have some nice call up options if we get hit with injuries--like MZA, Wiese, Valenteko, Kundratek, Parlett, Newbury.

The one position we're not set up for on a major injury would be goal.

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Old
09-14-2011, 07:43 AM
  #39
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I'd like to see the team add two things:

1. A legitimate, experienced, top-4 defender. McDonagh, Sauer, Girardi, and Staal is a fine top-4 -- however, none of these players have ever been past the 2nd round of the playoffs. That group needs a mentor and a winner to help guide them through the postseason.

Also, it'd be even better if that defenseman were in the mold of a primary puck mover. Looking around the league, nearly every championship caliber team has/had two legitimate puck moving defenseman. Anaheim had Pronger/Niedermayer in 2007. Detroit had Lidstrom/Rafalski in 2008. Pittsburgh had Letang/Gonchar in 2009. Chicago had Campbell/Keith in 2010. Boston had Kaberle and Chara (to an extent) in 2011. Who do the Rangers have? They haven't had a defenseman score 40 points since before the lockout, and before this team goes anywhere beyond a medicore regular season finish, this needs to change.

2. A legitimate 3rd line RW -- in the mold of a Fedotenko or a Recchi (09 on). An experienced, winning, all-effort two-way forward with a touch of skill.

Right now, in my opinion, the team is far too inexperienced to win a Cup. Of course, that isn't the end all be all of deciding how good this team is. Hopefully the team can go relatively deep on somewhat of a "high", akin to the '09 Blackhawks squad that made it to the Conference Finals. Even if the team does get humbled by a more experienced team as the 'Hawks did, it'll give the young leaders of this team experience, and give them a challenge -- fix the mistakes you made in this series to get farther into the next.

Lastly, before we start determining whether or not this is a cup caliber roster or not, we have to see how Richards fits in with the team on the ice, if Gaborik can shed his "regular season star, postseason dud" title, and if either one of Anisimov/Stepan can take the next step and become a dependable 2nd line center. The pieces are there, so to speak, we just need to see whether or not the players can put them into place.
IMO, those are the types of players who a team can add at the deadline fairly easily. Just using last year as an example, Kaberle and Kelly to Boston. Liles to Toronto.

There are those "top-4" puck-movers who will be available who have some experience if you still feel they are needed and there are ALWAYS players available who can fill a 3rd line winger spot(Torres is available every year ).

I would rather go into the season with those spots open and place rookies in there considering the large amount of depth the Rangers have at practically every position except goalie and then when injuries happen bring in that veteran presence where you fee he will do the most good. Maybe its a top-6 winger. Maybe its a #6 defenseman who has some playoff experience. Who knows.

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Old
09-14-2011, 09:02 AM
  #40
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Yeah I honestly didn't see Boston winning the cup last year. Look at that team and you go "damn they really lack top end offense" but they managed to do it.

Every team has holes, it's too hard to build this perfect team under a salary cap
At the same time, who would have thought it was going to be Krejci and Marchand leading the way? The expectation was that Kaberle would put them over the top and, as Zil said, he was pretty much a non factor.

I don't disagree with the discussion at hand, but the '09/'10 Bruins could have dealt a player like Marchand as the 6th seed to address some weaknesses. Local media around here was going crazy that they didn't.

If the heart of this article is that the "window" will be open for a while, then it's, at very least, reason to be selective and careful about who you're dealing.

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09-14-2011, 03:19 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
IMO, those are the types of players who a team can add at the deadline fairly easily. Just using last year as an example, Kaberle and Kelly to Boston. Liles to Toronto.
Maybe they'll be easy to add. Maybe not. Liles is a fine offensive player, but he doesn't have much experience beyond the regular season. He was acquired in the offseason. Kaberle, too, despite his fantastic regular season career thus far -- the Rangers need an experienced player of that caliber, and, usually, you pay a premium for a talented and experienced player. Look at what the Rangers gave up for Kevin Lowe. Doug Weight, who was a very promising young centerman at the time, and became one of the better players in the NHL for the next decade or so. Now, Lowe isn't the type of player I'm advocating for the Rangers to acquire, as he certainly was no puck mover, but that's the type of player this team could use, IMO.

Also, I know what you're saying with "easily acquired", but look at what Boston gave up for a player who, ultimately, was extremely ineffective during their cup run. I wouldn't necessarily call that an "easy" acquisition for Boston. Kelly, sure.

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There are those "top-4" puck-movers who will be available who have some experience if you still feel they are needed and there are ALWAYS players available who can fill a 3rd line winger spot(Torres is available every year ).
True, but, the fact of the matter is that those spots aren't filled as of now, so I can't judge the team based on a player that isn't even part of the team, yet.

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I would rather go into the season with those spots open and place rookies in there considering the large amount of depth the Rangers have at practically every position except goalie and then when injuries happen bring in that veteran presence where you fee he will do the most good.
For now, I agree that the team should go into the season with what they have. For several reasons, really, one of them being that if you're going to build your forward group around the Richards/Gaborik combination, you have to see them play together first before you asess which players could potentially fit into the group.

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I disagree with this whole premise. People need to recognize that Staal and Girardi are pretty damn accomplished at this point. They're not old, but they have the necessary experience.
To win a cup, with the rest of the defense as inexperienced as it is? Not at all. If we had a 2nd pairing with plenty of experience, there wouldn't really be an issue, but given the fact that the 2nd pairing is two sophomore players with no experience...it's an issue. Girardi as the #2 is also an issue, in my opinion, but that's for another discussion.

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Yes, the Bruins had Kaberle and Chara, but really they had an effective puck moving defenseman in name only. Everyone knows how ineffective Kaberle was during the playoffs and Chara really isn't a puck mover so much as a big shot from the blueline.
Kaberle was still a player that the opposing teams had to focus on, in regards to offensive abilities. Which Ranger defenseman is going to intimidate any player in the offensive zone? None is the answer. In Chara, you at least have that intimidation factor.

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[sic] Del Zotto & Erixon [sic] They may see limited even strength minutes, but they will be out there on the powerplay. Also, Rozsival put up 40 in 06-07, but that's nitpicking.
That's a "may", however. Right now, looking at the NHL roster, it lacks a puck mover. Yes, Del Zotto/Erixon have that "potential", but the Rangers still need a repsected, legitimate, experienced PMD on their blueline. It's a significant issue that hasn't been addressed, for years, really.

As for Rozsival, oversight on my part, Thought he put up 38 -- my point still stands, however, that the offensive capabilities of the Rangers' defenseman since the lockout, since Leetch left, really, have been atrocious.

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09-14-2011, 03:55 PM
  #42
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I like that quote by Gorton re: "the windows". I believe he, Clark and the rest of the management team have stocked the pipeline well. Now it's a matter of keeping it that way which I think they are capable of.

The interesting part comes when you have the potential to convert a solid prospect or two and/or an everyday player into a deal that brings back young, game breaking talent.

We're not there yet IMO, but I think we are getting close. The Rangers are doing it right.

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09-14-2011, 04:39 PM
  #43
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Rangers need a guy who can legitimately play on the left side of richards and a workhorse vet dman who can bring the offense as well. They know this though.

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09-14-2011, 05:13 PM
  #44
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Rangers need a guy who can legitimately play on the left side of richards and a workhorse vet dman who can bring the offense as well. They know this though.
Dubinsky can legitimately play on the left side of Richards, and he should.

Kreider will be in NYC next year and will get top six time soon.

We can't and wont be able to afford another high priced forward. No body knows what the cap ceiling will be. It could go down. New CBA. Guys like Stepan will need raises.

And they don't necessarily want or need a vet defenseman. If they had, they would have gotten one. Our defense is not an issue. After goaltending its the least of our worries.

People waiting for or expecting a Parise, for example, shouldn't hold their breath.

The organization made a commitment to Richards and Gaborik being the high priced forwards.

At the deadline, for example, if Phoenix is out of it, Doan would make a lot sense. That's the kind of deal that makes sense. A guy in his mid-30's a pending UFA, that can still contribute, and plays a game that fits our identity. Added leadership to help this young team grow in the playoffs. And a GM that Sather has good relations with.

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09-14-2011, 05:29 PM
  #45
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We have playoff experience in a former Conn Smythe and Stanley Cup winner in Richards, Fedotenko has two cups, and Rupper is pretty well seasoned too. The younger guys have all had some playoff experience and know what it takes to win in the playoffs. Oh and Hank's gold medal goes to show he can perform in pressure situations.

So as far as leadership and playoff experience I feel pretty comfortable.

As far as the defense producing offense goes Girardi had 31 points last year so it's possible he could produce a little more. Staal will continue to grow in that regard as well IMO. It's nice to have one D-man lead the way but with Girardi, Staal, McDonagh and MDZ our defense could contribute 100 points by committee.

My opinion could change by the end of December but who knows, I am comfortable with what we have at the moment and I'm excited to see what some of these guys can do.

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09-14-2011, 05:42 PM
  #46
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Rangers need a guy who can legitimately play on the left side of richards and a workhorse vet dman who can bring the offense as well. They know this though.
As SSM said, Dubinsky is a fine fit there. Hopefully Kreider can become a good 2nd line LW to fill that hole.

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And they don't necessarily want or need a vet defenseman. If they had, they would have gotten one.
Not necessarily. The season hasn't started yet, Sather doesn't know where his team stands; if they're poised to make a run, I guarantee you he will attempt to add an experienced, veteran defenseman to the team.

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09-14-2011, 05:49 PM
  #47
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Rangers would have to move a little salary to add a vet dman, if we're going to be running 22-23 man rosters this year.

400k in space for 3/4ths of the year only gets us a little over a million to work with come deadline, thats not enough. No bonus overage this year.

Rangers brass has seemed to show no interest in McCabe. The fact that he has not signed anywhere would suggest to me that he is looking for more than a minimum salary contract.

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09-14-2011, 06:03 PM
  #48
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You guys are still talking about Parise?

CBA talk. It expires 1 year from this Thursday



http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/12...-cba-landscape

The players receive 57% of the gross. They started the current CBA with 54%. Why would they take 48%-50%? This is not the NFL with their 20 billion in projected revenue. The NHL wants to lower the cap. The NHL is a $3B league.

Group III is 7 accrued seasons(40 NHL games per season) or 27 years old. Not that many players have become group III's with 7 accrued seasons before reaching 27.

Some other things in the article about eliminating the floor,removing the option of getting a player off the cap by assigning him to the AHL and limiting how many times a player can file for arbitration were also mentioned.

Anything else? The floor guarantees teams spend a certain amount. The NFL doesn't have a floor but teams are supposed to spend up to 89.1% of the cap. The NFL players took a cut to 48% but their sport will only add billions in revenue. The NHLPA wants the players on the roster to count against the cap. Maybe any player signed to a 1 way contract making over $1M counts against the cap regardless of where he plays counts against the cap is a solution. NHL arbitration is a joke. The NHL never should have allowed it in their CBA.


UFA age needs to go up for sure

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Old
09-14-2011, 06:23 PM
  #49
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And they don't necessarily want or need a vet defenseman. If they had, they would have gotten one. Our defense is not an issue. After goaltending its the least of our worries.
.
I disagree with nearly your entire post, but this is the real issue I have.

No worries about Staal and his shutdown ability, and Dan Girardi while playing with Staal - but lets face it, hes not a stereotypical first pairing defenseman.

Then you've got two sophomores with a little more than 100 games of NHL experience combined on the 2nd pairing - far from some sort of sure bet.

You dont even really have a third pairing right now since noone knows who thats going to consist of.

With the Richards acquisition, I feel more comfortable about the forwards.

To try to portray the defense as nothing to worry about is categorically wrong.

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09-14-2011, 06:24 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I'd like to see the team add two things:

1. A legitimate, experienced, top-4 defender. McDonagh, Sauer, Girardi, and Staal is a fine top-4 -- however, none of these players have ever been past the 2nd round of the playoffs. That group needs a mentor and a winner to help guide them through the postseason.

Also, it'd be even better if that defenseman were in the mold of a primary puck mover. Looking around the league, nearly every championship caliber team has/had two legitimate puck moving defenseman. Anaheim had Pronger/Niedermayer in 2007. Detroit had Lidstrom/Rafalski in 2008. Pittsburgh had Letang/Gonchar in 2009. Chicago had Campbell/Keith in 2010. Boston had Kaberle and Chara (to an extent) in 2011. Who do the Rangers have? They haven't had a defenseman score 40 points since before the lockout, and before this team goes anywhere beyond a medicore regular season finish, this needs to change.

2. A legitimate 3rd line RW -- in the mold of a Fedotenko or a Recchi (09 on). An experienced, winning, all-effort two-way forward with a touch of skill.

Right now, in my opinion, the team is far too inexperienced to win a Cup. Of course, that isn't the end all be all of deciding how good this team is. Hopefully the team can go relatively deep on somewhat of a "high", akin to the '09 Blackhawks squad that made it to the Conference Finals. Even if the team does get humbled by a more experienced team as the 'Hawks did, it'll give the young leaders of this team experience, and give them a challenge -- fix the mistakes you made in this series to get farther into the next.

Lastly, before we start determining whether or not this is a cup caliber roster or not, we have to see how Richards fits in with the team on the ice, if Gaborik can shed his "regular season star, postseason dud" title, and if either one of Anisimov/Stepan can take the next step and become a dependable 2nd line center. The pieces are there, so to speak, we just need to see whether or not the players can put them into place.

Can't agree with most of this. First off, Staal is one of the best defenseman in the league. Why do we need a "legitimate" top 4 defenseman? We have one of the best in the league. If you're talking about acquiring a puck mover, there are ZERO on the level which you're speaking. Those players are Hall of Famers. You don't just acquire them. They're like franchise quarterbacks. I guess I don't understand the thought process. I mean I do, but I don't see how it's feasible at all and I don't see why we need a "legitimate" top 4 defenseman when we have Staal. Unless Sauer, McDonagh, and Girardi all implode.

Second, a legitimate third line winger? Really? How can you say "in the mold of Fedotenko" and then go on to describe Fedotenko? We have plenty of these types of players. We don't need any more, and on top of that you already answered your own issue by describing Feds. If you're looking for a Recchi type then what you're saying is you want a guy who is going to provide decent offense at the expense of other things.

"If Gaborik can shed his regular season star, post season dud title" ??? To who? People who make things up and don't pay attention to facts? Or people with a skewed perspective on things? I'm not sure who is saying that or where that's coming from.

Gabby scored 17 points in 18 playoff games his first year in the post season. 4 in 5 games. 1 in 6. 2 in 5. So because he has 3 points in his last 11 playoff games he's a playoff dud? But we don't pay any attention to the 21 points in 23 playoff games before that?

If we need anything it'll reveal itself during the course of the year. As of now the only thing that might be glaring is a second line winger. The price may or may not be worth it. Time will tell.

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