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Rangers' core ready to contend for Cup

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Old
09-14-2011, 07:39 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I disagree with nearly your entire post, but this is the real issue I have.

No worries about Staal and his shutdown ability, and Dan Girardi while playing with Staal - but lets face it, hes not a stereotypical first pairing defenseman.

Then you've got two sophomores with a little more than 100 games of NHL experience combined on the 2nd pairing - far from some sort of sure bet.

You dont even really have a third pairing right now since noone knows who thats going to consist of.

With the Richards acquisition, I feel more comfortable about the forwards.

To try to portray the defense as nothing to worry about is categorically wrong.
Girardi IMO is the wild card. You just never know with him. He looks great for stretches and awful for others. If there was anyone to worry about at times I think it's him.

Where people like you and others disagree is on McDonagh and Sauer. I'm someone who's super high on the two, and while I can understand your concerns based purely on the fact they're young, I can't understand it and believe you actually watched the games last year.

Those two play well above their actual game experience. Did they make mistakes at time? Yeah of course. But by and large they played like veterans. And their types of game are suited to not regressing.

To consider those two a question mark is either based on their age/experience entirely or pure skepticism. To watch the game that they played last season and think that there's a greater chance they regress instead of improve is naive.

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Old
09-14-2011, 08:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
As SSM said, Dubinsky is a fine fit there. Hopefully Kreider can become a good 2nd line LW to fill that hole.



Not necessarily. The season hasn't started yet, Sather doesn't know where his team stands; if they're poised to make a run, I guarantee you he will attempt to add an experienced, veteran defenseman to the team.
Yeah he fits well there, but then who takes his spot? I'm not ready to pencil Kreider in anywhere. No knock on him but we don't know what's going to be right now or if he'll even make the team next year. On top of that, with the chemistry he shows with AA and callahan they could be a lethal 2nd line.

They need another top 6 LW, period. And like I said, the Rangers know this.

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Old
09-14-2011, 08:52 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Girardi IMO is the wild card. You just never know with him. He looks great for stretches and awful for others. If there was anyone to worry about at times I think it's him.

Where people like you and others disagree is on McDonagh and Sauer. I'm someone who's super high on the two, and while I can understand your concerns based purely on the fact they're young, I can't understand it and believe you actually watched the games last year.

Those two play well above their actual game experience. Did they make mistakes at time? Yeah of course. But by and large they played like veterans. And their types of game are suited to not regressing.

To consider those two a question mark is either based on their age/experience entirely or pure skepticism. To watch the game that they played last season and think that there's a greater chance they regress instead of improve is naive.
Girardi was solid all of last season. High hits numbers--led the league in blocked shots--scored about 30 points. Has the stamina to play all night long. Tortorella might not be great for some other players but I think he keeps Girardi's game level constantly up. Dan's going into his peak years now--I think he'll be 28 this year. He's more of a veteran than anyone else on our D.

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Old
09-14-2011, 10:27 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Can't agree with most of this. First off, Staal is one of the best defenseman in the league. Why do we need a "legitimate" top 4 defenseman? We have one of the best in the league.
Whoa -- are you saying that since the Rangers have Staal, they don't need another top-4 defenseman? The way you wrote this makes it sounds as if that's what you're trying to say, but I would that you're saying the team already has one of the "best" 'top-4s' in the league. Regarding the latter, that's a two way street. One of the best when discussing their defensive game? Maybe, when they play to the level they can play. Their overall game? Absolutely not. I'm not complaining about the team's defensive core -- it's very good, but it's still rather one-dimensional. The team needs to add a different variety of defenseman to the group -- hopefully, Erixon/Del Zotto can add to the missing element. Until they prove they can do so, however, the Rangers' blueline is one of the worst offensive bluelines in the NHL.

Also, while Staal may be one of the best defensive defenseman in the league, he is relatively mediocre, at best, offensively. Does he have the skill to be a dependable two-way player? Absolutely. However, I don't think that's going to happen, given the fact that Staal's stick is significantly too long to stickhandle well with, and I don't want him to detract from his defensive game to add to his offensive game -- which is why I'm advocating the acquisition of a top-4 puck mover.

Either way, I still would feel more comfortable with a playoff experienced top-4 guy, and I'm sure Tortorella would as well.

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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
If you're talking about acquiring a puck mover, there are ZERO on the level which you're speaking. Those players are Hall of Famers. You don't just acquire them. They're like franchise quarterbacks. I guess I don't understand the thought process. I mean I do, but I don't see how it's feasible at all and I don't see why we need a "legitimate" top 4 defenseman when we have Staal. Unless Sauer, McDonagh, and Girardi all implode.
I'm not necessarily advocating THAT caliber player, I'm talking about a Kaberle/Liles type, but a Kaberle/Liles with playoff experience.

Also, while these 4 are good "top 4" defenseman in their own right, none of them have experienced playing past the first round of the playoffs -- the oldest of the group is Girardi, and he's 27. Youth can be a good thing, but there is such a thing as too much youth, and that is too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Second, a legitimate third line winger? Really? How can you say "in the mold of Fedotenko" and then go on to describe Fedotenko? We have plenty of these types of players. We don't need any more, and on top of that you already answered your own issue by describing Feds. If you're looking for a Recchi type then what you're saying is you want a guy who is going to provide decent offense at the expense of other things.
"Really"? ? What's outlandish about pointing out the need for a legitimate 3rd line RW? Should we just leave an unfilled spot alone because it may be "easy" to fill in some fans eyes (not necessarily you, but, I digress).

The Rangers have "plenty" of players with as much as experience as Fedotenko? Fedotenko is the only player on the team with more than 1 cup. Recchi has won 3. He provided decent everything, aside from his leadership, which was very influential on the Bruins team.

Besides, who plays 3rd line RW? Zuccarello? A rookie who doesn't fit the mold of a 3rd line player?

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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
"If Gaborik can shed his regular season star, post season dud title" ??? To who? People who make things up and don't pay attention to facts? Or people with a skewed perspective on things? I'm not sure who is saying that or where that's coming from.
I phrased that incorrectly. While Gaborik isn't a "bad" postseason player, IMO, he isn't "good", either. He had one above-average playoff run, and that was in 2003, 8 years ago, before Richards won his Conn Smythe, even. Wild fans will tell you that Gaborik was terrible against Colorado, despite the 5 points in 6 games. And while he wasn't bad against the Caps, he still fell flat as the main offensive producer of the club. He's not a guy you want putting the team on his back in the playoffs from 2003-on. He's made the playoffs twice in that span.

I'll tell you right now that I'm as big of a Gaborik supporter as anyone, he's one of my favorite players -- that doesn't mean I'm not going to point out his deficiencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
If we need anything it'll reveal itself during the course of the year. As of now the only thing that might be glaring is a second line winger. The price may or may not be worth it. Time will tell.
I said in a prior post that I do not believe that these moves need to be made right now -- however, when dissecting the team on it's surface, these are holes that need to be filled. Until these players that we're penciling into the lineup prove they can fill them...they haven't filled them, have they?

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Old
09-14-2011, 10:33 PM
  #55
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Dale Weise is a rookie who can potentially fit the mold of a third line player.

Also, Brandon Prust as a kid coming off a 10 goal season can play 3rd line minutes comfortably, as long as its used more as a checking line than a 3rd scoring line.

Those are both very viable options should Zucc fail.

There is also the usually dismissed possibility of an Avery-Stepan-Fedotenko third line.

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Old
09-14-2011, 11:10 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I disagree with nearly your entire post, but this is the real issue I have.

No worries about Staal and his shutdown ability, and Dan Girardi while playing with Staal - but lets face it, hes not a stereotypical first pairing defenseman.

Then you've got two sophomores with a little more than 100 games of NHL experience combined on the 2nd pairing - far from some sort of sure bet.

You dont even really have a third pairing right now since noone knows who thats going to consist of.

With the Richards acquisition, I feel more comfortable about the forwards.

To try to portray the defense as nothing to worry about is categorically wrong.
What a surprise, you don't agree.

Girardi "isn't a prototypical first pair defenseman"? So a guy who logs well over 20 minutes against top offensive players, while being a league leader in blocked shots and hits, and putting up 30+ points, isn't a top pair defenseman? Luckily Tortorella disagrees with you.

Second, those two sophomores are extremely reliable. There's a reason the Rangers trust them. They're mature. They don't run around. They're simple players. They don't play a game that gets them into trouble. And they're both good skaters so they have good gap control. You know, hockey stuff. Things that intelligent fans and players and coaches and scouts know.

The third pair practically is set. Unless Erixon and Del Zotto fail miserably in camp, not likely, they'll be there. They both have Pro experience. Including Erixon who was one of the reasons his SEL team went to the finals. Its theirs to lose. And the third pair wont be getting as much 5v5 time as those two will on special teams. Which will be considerable on the PP. So it wont be THAT much of an issue. And if/when one of the two are struggling, Eminger is available as a veteran presence to be put in the lineup.

Third point, its been gone over, a lot, what the cap situation is, and what the expiring CBA situation is. The Rangers can not afford anymore proven high-end players. They're going to continue plugging holes from within, with cheap, talented players. Rentals at the deadline that don't cost top picks and prospects, for prorated contracts that fit.

The cap situation is in a way that Zuccarello can't even be on the team, for financial reasons, unless Avery is out right cut. And that is not likely. Yet somehow Sather is going to magically manifest a vet defensemen or a high scoring winger in a trade? And think "major changes" are going to occur as you put it earlier. No sorry.

You believe that because a guy has little, or no, NHL experience that they can't play. And you have been proven wrong over and over again. Three guys proved you wrong last year. At least a couple more will this year (Erixon will be one of them) and the following year and so on.

They just added the expensive big-ticket FA.

This is how it is. They have a solid pipe, and they're plugging holes from within.

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Old
09-18-2011, 02:25 PM
  #57
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TSN analysis of our team this year

http://tsn.ca/blogs/scott_cullen/?id=376087

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Old
09-18-2011, 05:32 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yeah I honestly didn't see Boston winning the cup last year. Look at that team and you go "damn they really lack top end offense" but they managed to do it.

Every team has holes, it's too hard to build this perfect team under a salary cap
It's all about match-ups in the playoffs..last season the Bruin got favorable match-ups the same way Philly got favorable match ups the prior season. The toughest series the Bruins had was the opener against the Habs. The Bruins PP was terrible all playoffs and probably would have finished worse if not for the Luongo melt down games, they finished with a PP% of 11.4%

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Old
09-18-2011, 07:01 PM
  #59
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For us to Cup Contend, we need Career, award-worthy seasons from Staal and henrik.

Henrik I think will be fine. Staal needs to make the jump into the top tier.

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