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Sather and the Homegrown Rebuilding of the Rangers

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:44 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I understand results are everything to some people, but the same arguments can be made for stats mean everything. We all watch the games. Is everyone telling me that they don't feel this team has improved every year the past 3 years?

I can honestly say that this team is trending upwards and I feel that if the Rangers had had the significant injuries they had last season that they would have been able to finish much higher than they actually did.

Looking at the stats does it look like they got better? No. But watching the team develop and play I can tell you they did.
Nobody should give a damn about getting better year after year. The bottom line is what ultimately matters. Until Sathers creation comes to frution and this team accomplishes its goal, it's nothing but failure. Different levels of failures. To appease the crowd that has second-rate expectations, I guess.

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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Neil Smith also made some of the worst managerial moves post-championship. He depleted the system severely and dealt away players that should have never been moved while also adding free agents we did not need.

Sather has made bad moves as well. We all know it. But he hired the right scouts and others along the way and has righted the ship. Am I going to fully credit him when he hasnt won anything yet? No. But c'mon the guy has done a much better job. To me it just sounds like a bunch of people who like to complain and are pessimistic.
He has done a much better job. He does have this team on the right track. But, there's no guarantee in that alone. The team must still flourish if we're going to give him the Credit that some people think he's due.

He's been in this business his entire life. 11 years, and his team has still yet to scratch the surface of anything worthy.

Regarding Smith: Victory is what overlooks the mistakes he made throughout his tenure here. It was all worth it, 100X.

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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
But the argument was not about Sather's entire tenure. It was for this off-season and constructing THIS team.

It's like no one can give any credit to the guy because all they do is bring up 5-10 years ago.
I'm not giving him credit, because he hasn't earned it. Building a team from within has won us what, exactly? What has it resulted in?

Who cares if you made 67 outgoing cold-calls today if all you did was close 3 accounts. Really? When you get your pay-check, your prize for your efforts, does it matter?

Results is what matters. Not potential.

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09-15-2011, 12:46 PM
  #52
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Every team that consistently contends for the playoffs has homegrown players that their fans feel good about. Sather has done nothing special IMO. We're middle of the pack, and our performance for the last few seasons suggests nothing else. Will our young core continue to progress? Yes. But so will others.

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09-15-2011, 12:47 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Doesnt make them one of the best either.
As they continue to grow together they are. At the beginning of last season, without Richards, they were one of the best teams in the East. No one wanted to face the Rangers in the playoffs because of the way they played. They wore down due to all of the injuries and asking players to play more ice time than was expected at the beginning of the season due to those same injuries.

I believe that is the team we will see this season. The team no one wanted to match up against.

I am not a Sather defender at all. I hated those years the same as everyone else here who lived and watched the Rangers through that time. I just happen to believe that this team is better than many people here give them credit for.

Have they grown a superstar forward? No. Does it suck? Of course. But the TEAM is better than a single player anyways. Especially in the playoffs.

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09-15-2011, 12:49 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Nobody should give a damn about getting better year after year. The bottom line is what ultimately matters. Until Sathers creation comes to frution and this team accomplishes its goal, it's nothing but failure. Different levels of failures. To appease the crowd that has second-rate expectations, I guess.



He has done a much better job. He does have this team on the right track. But, there's no guarantee in that alone. The team must still flourish if we're going to give him the Credit that some people think he's due.

He's been in this business his entire life. 11 years, and his team has still yet to scratch the surface of anything worthy.

Regarding Smith: Victory is what overlooks the mistakes he made throughout his tenure here. It was all worth it, 100X.



I'm not giving him credit, because he hasn't earned it. Building a team from within has won us what, exactly? What has it resulted in?

Who cares if you made 67 outgoing cold-calls today if all you did was close 3 accounts. Really? When you get your pay-check, your prize for your efforts, does it matter?

Results is what matters. Not potential.
It's not that black and white when "building" a team though. That's why organizations build their teams over time. It takes exactly that. Time.

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09-15-2011, 12:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
But the argument was not about Sather's entire tenure. It was for this off-season and constructing THIS team.

It's like no one can give any credit to the guy because all they do is bring up 5-10 years ago.
Call me close-minded but I just don't see any point in praising a guy for assembling a team that hasn't even played a game yet.

Praising a GM for doing what any competent GM would do just seems kind of trivial. We're at the point where we give Sather a pat on the back for not ****ing things up. I think that in itself is telling of his success (or lack thereof) as a GM.

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09-15-2011, 12:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Call me close-minded but I just don't see any point in praising a guy for assembling a team that hasn't even played a game yet.

Praising a GM for doing what any competent GM would do just seems kind of trivial. We're at the point where we give Sather a pat on the back for not ****ing things up. I think that in itself is telling of his success (or lack thereof) as a GM.
I'm not looking at the past. I am looking at the team presently assembled. I happen to think it is a good team. Hence I think Sather did a good job this off-season.

That is all I was trying to convey. Not sure why everyone has to get all up in arms about saying Sather had a good off-season.

And it's more than just saying he didn't **** up. I like the moves he made and spots he left open and the re-signings.

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09-15-2011, 01:05 PM
  #57
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To be fair though, we'd most likely have an elite homegrown forward in Cherepanov had he not unfortunately passed. I don't know anyone who didn't like that pick.

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09-15-2011, 01:15 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
To be fair though, we'd most likely have an elite homegrown forward in Cherepanov had he not unfortunately passed. I don't know anyone who didn't like that pick.
You can like the pick and not believe that Cherepanov was bound to be an elite player. I sure didn't.

Regardless, Sather does not deserve credit for having that player fall into his lap. The Rangers were able to take Cherepanov because they are located in a desirable market for Russian players and because they don't care about financial issues. That has nothing to do with Sather.

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09-15-2011, 01:27 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
As they continue to grow together they are. At the beginning of last season, without Richards, they were one of the best teams in the East. No one wanted to face the Rangers in the playoffs because of the way they played. They wore down due to all of the injuries and asking players to play more ice time than was expected at the beginning of the season due to those same injuries.

I believe that is the team we will see this season. The team no one wanted to match up against.

I am not a Sather defender at all. I hated those years the same as everyone else here who lived and watched the Rangers through that time. I just happen to believe that this team is better than many people here give them credit for.

Have they grown a superstar forward? No. Does it suck? Of course. But the TEAM is better than a single player anyways. Especially in the playoffs.
This is just your opinion. If its what you truly think WILL happen, thats wonderful - still doesnt mean it has any basis in reality at the present time.

As the conversation progresses, its quite clear that the optimistic folks base their arguments on what if's and what can be...talking about Cherepanov and how great this young core WILL BE going forward.

Im going to judge Sather on where this team has been up to the present day.

And while we're on the subject of opinions, while I like the makeup of this team, I still dont think they're really anywhere near seriously competing for a Stanley Cup.

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Old
09-15-2011, 01:30 PM
  #60
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sather and gordie havent done enough yet if you base your decision on tangible results. they have been mediocre.

cherepanov may have been an impact player but we will never know. no doubt he dropped in our lap. odds are he would have been a solid top 6 scorer and you cannot blame sather for his tragic passing.

i do know this however....

this is from hf http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...t_in_st_louis/

Tarasenko plays a North American style game with his willingness to engage physically. From the top of the circles down he skates through contact and has no trouble controlling the puck in traffic. He’s extremely gifted offensively and can beat defenders in one-on-one situations. Tarasenko has limited weaknesses in his game, bringing a world class shot, explosiveness, and hockey sense to the ice. He’s been playing against men for several years now including the World Championships this past spring. He’s been more productive than most players his age who have come through the KHL including Alexander Ovechkin. Scouts love his ability to play big in big games. He captained Russia’s Gold-Medal winning World Junior team last January recording 11 points in the tournament.

if you want a recent example of passing on a true talent to take a true project, look no further.

this is, to me atleast, more of the same with this crew. lack of impact, elite type players (yet choosing to pass on tarasenko, fowler and gormley ??) but a derth of 3rd line types and some hit or miss projects that for the most part, havent panned out. we've reached far too often with our high picks but at the same time, we been very fortunate (lucky ?) with some of our lesser picks. thats scary....

time will tell, but until we go deep in the playoffs led by home grown talent, count me as skeptical.

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Old
09-15-2011, 01:33 PM
  #61
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I will give Sather credit when two conditions are met. First, we have to win big. Second, I have to feel that he is responsible for us winning big.

Otherwise, why not give the credit to the people who have built this core like Renney, Clark, etc?

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09-15-2011, 01:38 PM
  #62
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why does it have to be all or nothing around here?

whats wrong with just saying, "sather appears to be moving this team in the right direction"

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09-15-2011, 01:40 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Mint Berry Crunch View Post
Took a while for Slats to get it done, but here we are...
well, that happens when you don't get 3 top 5 picks in a row. Edmonton has had the #1, #1, #10, #22, #6 in the last five years. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Taylor Hall, Magnus Pajaarvi, Jordan Eberle, and Sam Gagner. Those are the five #1's they've had since 2006 when they made it to the finals as the 7th or 8th Western Conference seed. They should be seeing some results soon. Sather and staff had to do it with some savvy drafting in the later rounds and so really shrewd trades (McD, Erixon). Later round picks take a lot of patience. Dubi and Callahan were drafted way back in 2004 and while they have been great players for us, I don't think we have seen their full force; until this season. 7 years to see a full return on our investments. Top 5 picks tend to pan out and a much higher level much sooner, yes?

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09-15-2011, 01:40 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
why does it have to be all or nothing around here?

whats wrong with just saying, "sather appears to be moving this team in the right direction"
Cause there was no other direction he could have possibly gone.

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09-15-2011, 01:48 PM
  #65
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Cause there was no other direction he could have possibly gone.
you can certainly go down from mediocre

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09-15-2011, 01:51 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This is just your opinion. If its what you truly think WILL happen, thats wonderful - still doesnt mean it has any basis in reality at the present time.

As the conversation progresses, its quite clear that the optimistic folks base their arguments on what if's and what can be...talking about Cherepanov and how great this young core WILL BE going forward.

Im going to judge Sather on where this team has been up to the present day.

And while we're on the subject of opinions, while I like the makeup of this team, I still dont think they're really anywhere near seriously competing for a Stanley Cup.
I liken Sather to an artistic painter. He's gone out and procured the best brushes, paints, and canvases. He's brought in people who have a keen eye for supplies. He has all the tools to the produce a truly magnificent painting. But he has yet to paint a single stroke let alone a masterpiece. However, there are those who are willing to call him one of the best artists of the decade...because they like his brushes.

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09-15-2011, 01:53 PM
  #67
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you can certainly go down from mediocre
Not with Henrik Lundqvist in net.

Hes made some awful, awful, awful mistakes - just because he didnt make any of those serious blunders this year, and hes hanging onto prospects doesnt mean he warrants any sort of praise.

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09-15-2011, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
you can certainly go down from mediocre
He was beyond mediocre for a long time. From 2000 to the lockout he was downright awful. Dumping Graves and Leetch and blindly throwing darts at the board (Lindros, Bure, Holik). Not to mention the Trottier hiring. Brutal.

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09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
I liken Sather to an artistic painter. He's gone out and procured the best brushes, paints, and canvases. He's brought in people who have a keen eye for supplies. He has all the tools to the produce a truly magnificent painting. But he has yet to paint a single stroke let alone a masterpiece. However, there are those who are willing to call him one of the best artists of the decade...because they like his brushes.
Again, while on the subject of opinions, Ill give mine.

Im excited he brought in Jeff Gorton, that was a solid move. Gordie Clark has done a decent job but is incredibly overrated around here.

As for the players, show me the bluechipper, either with the team or in the system....

You'll be looking for a while.

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09-15-2011, 02:00 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not with Henrik Lundqvist in net.

Hes made some awful, awful, awful mistakes - just because he didnt make any of those serious blunders this year, and hes hanging onto prospects doesnt mean he warrants any sort of praise.
i'd argue that in the salary capped NHL retaining your top prospects with reasonable and responsible contracts and making smart additions to your roster via free agency is worthy of praise regardless of the team, GM, or either one's respective history

now, obviouslly no one is advocating building a monument for the man, but there's no reason we cant aknowledge progress to some degree

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09-15-2011, 02:05 PM
  #71
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A lot of what the "realists" say is just spot on, indisputable fact. I'm an optimist and I won't dispute most of it. It's the smugness of the delivery that's always so entertaining. Really, I get a chuckle out of it.

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09-15-2011, 02:14 PM
  #72
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Glen Sather has been a failure. I dont know if this was stated in a previous post but if the NHL hadn't imposed a salary cap he would still being FA crazy and throwing youth development as a core to the wind.

Until he wins the Stanley Cup, his decade plus of futility is just that. With unlimited assets at his disposal he has done nothing that has translated into creating a team that has been even close to being a conference contender.

Also, every GM was available to talk about their prospects and teams off season live on TV during games at Traverse City including Ken Holland and Darcy Regier.

Sather couldn't even make it to talk to the fans live with his own corporate shill announcers to talk about the Rangers future, and outlook for this year.

Instead we get Mr. Magoo getting interviewed live from the golf course, saying nothing and talking about Golf.

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09-15-2011, 02:15 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I'm not looking at the past. I am looking at the team presently assembled. I happen to think it is a good team. Hence I think Sather did a good job this off-season.

That is all I was trying to convey. Not sure why everyone has to get all up in arms about saying Sather had a good off-season.

And it's more than just saying he didn't **** up. I like the moves he made and spots he left open and the re-signings.
Fair enough. I'm just of the opinion that the moves he made were more of the common sense variety as opposed to foresight of a brilliant GM.

To be entirely honest, I'm not even sure Slats is running the show anymore. Part of me feels like Gorton has had a much bigger impact in day-to-day ops than his previous title may have indicated.

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09-15-2011, 02:16 PM
  #74
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This is probably the most excited I've felt about a Rangers team in a long time. Yet I wouldn't be surprised at all if this team failed to win the cup during the window that the organization and fans believe they will contend.

There's still no elite homegrown forward. Maybe Kreider will be that guy, but I don't want to impose such lofty expectations upon him.

I've been saying for a long time now that an offensive defenseman is an absolute necessity. We haven't had a great puckmoving defenseman since Leetch, so I think some fans are accustomed to not having one and are OK with it. However, when I watch players like Keith and Doughty, I realize what we are missing: a game-changing defenseman who can affect the outcome of the game with one pass or one shot. I thought our team was horrible at moving the puck up the ice last season. Richards will help on the PP for sure, but we still need a defenseman who doesn't handle the puck like a grenade. Hopefully Del Zotto will bounce back and start progressing. But if not, that's a big hole that needs to be filled.

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09-15-2011, 02:19 PM
  #75
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Let's give Sather credit? Thank you Sather, for realizing after over 10 years that this is how to run a team.

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