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Josh Bailey Deadline

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:24 PM
  #51
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thanks for the responses.

I knew he was rushed but wasn't sure why. Sounds like they needed another centre and be played well during the 9 game tryout.

Did people think it was a mistake at the time?

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:30 PM
  #52
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thanks for the responses.

I knew he was rushed but wasn't sure why. Sounds like they needed another centre and be played well during the 9 game tryout.

Did people think it was a mistake at the time?
I think we all knew, at least in the back of our minds that it could turn out badly -- or at least not as well as one would hope. The Islanders were in the basement that season and did need warm bodies.

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:31 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
Not for nothing, but this is actually a good management strategy to avoid the distractions of a holdout affecting the team.

Also, this has been team policy for years going back to when Isbister and Chara hadn't been signed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/10/sp...n-holdout.html

The Islanders players (led by Beezer) appealed to management/ownership to let this be an exception and both players came to agreements. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2000...es-wang-policy

You make it sound like the policy is unreasonable. The players are still allowed to holdout, but it will cost them the season. How is that unfair? It's fair for one to holdout until he finds his salary acceptable, but it's not fair for management to know whether they can depend on a player for the upcoming season, evaluate him through all of training camp, and not have the stigma of the holdout linger and allow for constant questioning?

It's a sound and reasonable policy. Bailey is welcome to hone is craft overseas if he can't find a reasonable offer/finds a better one elsewhere in the world and doesn't respect the deadline. (Unfortunately for Bailey, the NHL in North America is practically a monopoly of sorts. Of course, the players get what they bargained for and with such an arrangement comes risks to both sides.)

Just to be clear, I hope something gets done - it's actually in the best interest of the Islanders and Bailey.

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And then they were traded?

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:32 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
Not for nothing, but this is actually a good management strategy to avoid the distractions of a holdout affecting the team.

Also, this has been team policy for years going back to when Isbister and Chara hadn't been signed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/10/sp...n-holdout.html

The Islanders players (led by Beezer) appealed to management/ownership to let this be an exception and both players came to agreements. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2000...es-wang-policy

You make it sound like the policy is unreasonable. The players are still allowed to holdout, but it will cost them the season. How is that unfair? It's fair for one to holdout until he finds his salary acceptable, but it's not fair for management to know whether they can depend on a player for the upcoming season, evaluate him through all of training camp, and not have the stigma of the holdout linger and allow for constant questioning?

It's a sound and reasonable policy. Bailey is welcome to hone is craft overseas if he can't find a reasonable offer/finds a better one elsewhere in the world and doesn't respect the deadline. (Unfortunately for Bailey, the NHL in North America is practically a monopoly of sorts. Of course, the players get what they bargained for and with such an arrangement comes risks to both sides.)

Just to be clear, I hope something gets done - it's actually in the best interest of the Islanders and Bailey.

,
Mitch
You can't say the policy is reasonable without knowing the offer(s) that have been made to Bailey. Did the team withdraw the qualifying offer, and is now insisting on a long-term contract at his current (low) value? Was the team willing to budge at all from the qualifying offer? Was the team willing to offer a 1-way deal?

If the team puts forward a clearly lowball offer, and says take it or you can't play in the NHL this year, then it is not a reasonable policy.


I think there is an assumption that Bailey is being unreasonable in not signing, but it is just that, an assumption. We don't know what Snow's strategy has been during the negotiations.

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:37 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
You can't say the policy is reasonable without knowing the offer(s) that have been made to Bailey. Did the team withdraw the qualifying offer, and is now insisting on a long-term contract at his current (low) value? Was the team willing to budge at all from the qualifying offer? Was the team willing to offer a 1-way deal?

If the team puts forward a clearly lowball offer, and says take it or you can't play in the NHL this year, then it is not a reasonable policy.


I think there is an assumption that Bailey is being unreasonable in not signing, but it is just that, an assumption. We don't know what Snow's strategy has been during the negotiations.
Qualifying offers expired a while back

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:40 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LetsGoIslanders View Post
I think we all knew, at least in the back of our minds that it could turn out badly -- or at least not as well as one would hope. The Islanders were in the basement that season and did need warm bodies.
Thanks, it mights still turn out well.

If not, I'm sure they could trade him for a defenseman. Lots of teams need help down the middle.

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:43 PM
  #57
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Nothing spurs confidence in a franchise more than it purposely tanking a players' development for no real good reason. But i jest. This squawk from NYI is just posturing.

However, Bailey is redundant on this current NYI squad.

Perhaps he should/will be dealt.

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:52 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Nothing spurs confidence in a franchise more than it purposely tanking a players' development for no real good reason. But i jest. This squawk from NYI is just posturing.

However, Bailey is redundant on this current NYI squad.

Perhaps he should/will be dealt.
Sean Bergenheim disagrees......

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Old
09-15-2011, 01:05 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Nothing spurs confidence in a franchise more than it purposely tanking a players' development for no real good reason. But i jest. This squawk from NYI is just posturing.

However, Bailey is redundant on this current NYI squad.

Perhaps he should/will be dealt.
Ya its not posturing. This is a well known rule in Islanderscountry. Bailey knows about it and even said something to the effect of "its coming down to the wire" earlier today. If Bailey does not sign by 7am there is no chance he is in an Islanders uniform for the rest of the year.

Furthermore Snow is a hardass about deadlines and offers. Examples include the Erhoff deadline and the 2nd round pick threshold needed to be met for Martinek and Konopka. He didn't budge from either.


Last edited by Renbarg: 09-15-2011 at 01:15 PM.
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Old
09-15-2011, 01:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
It does seem a little strange to me that the Islanders are so tough on players. They already have a really hard time attracting free agents, keeping their own free agents, etc., and they add on looking like the most uncompromising a-hole employers in the league? It seems like every 6 months or so they're in some kind of serious conflict with a player (Bailey, Nabokov, Bergenheim, Yashin, etc.). If I was an NHLer I'd look at the way the Isles treat their players as a major negative. They're not doing anything "wrong" per se in these scenarios, but it's not good image control IMO.
I agree, and it is reflected in their inability to lure top free agents. Unlike the Sharks (who also have a tough time luring FA's) who have a brutal travel schedule and reside in an area most consider a non-hockey market, the islanders are in a huge market with a very easy travel schedule.

Given the Sharks are a very successful (recently) team, but even so they are still only able to seemingly lure 2nd and 3rd tier free agents and end up developing and trading for the rest. The Islanders have a great history, a lot of cups, and a fairly desirable location, but yet struggle regardless.

It's of course a number of issues, several of which are contingent upon one another. For instance the Islanders are not able to give players the development time (and competition) necessary because they can not lure free agents to fill those NHL spots, so they end up rushing their youth. This in turn creates young players who often overvalue themselves or worse fail fantastically. Because the players overvalue themselves, they often are malcontent and are traded or leave at the first opportunity causing the cycle to restart.

The point is, the public image of the Islanders is really their only method to break that cycle. Again, the Sharks are an excellent example of this. They were a losing franchise that struggled in many of the same ways. Once DW took over he totally revamped the entire system. Players are treated extremely well, negotiations are kept very private and DW has (as far as i can recall) never shown any public ill-will toward any player even when he might have had every right to do so. In our case DW knew he could do nothing about the travel schedule but what he could do was make smart trades and improve his drafting and development.

These kinds of things paint a bad picture for the Islanders, whether they are valid or otherwise. It's similar to going to buy a new car and getting offered a great deal on an off-brand car. The deal might be great, and the car might even be excellent, but you still won't buy it because there is a safer bet elsewhere.

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Old
09-15-2011, 01:21 PM
  #61
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Like this policy by the Islanders. More teams should do this.

If a player wants to be unreasonable, he can have fun spending the year in Europe.

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Old
09-15-2011, 01:36 PM
  #62
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I wish people would stop refering to these types of situations as "hold outs" because its not. this is simply a player and team not having come to terms on a contract.

hold out is for the pre new cba era when guys who already had a contract would not show up for camp trying to force a new contract. they were "holding out" for a new deal.

NYI policy is consistent with their organizational stance and Bailey is a free man. If he would prefer to not play hockey this season, he doesnt have to.

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Old
09-15-2011, 01:37 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Like this policy by the Islanders. More teams should do this.

If a player wants to be unreasonable, he can have fun spending the year in Europe.
in fariness, you really dont know which side of the equation is being unreasonable, if anyone is at all.

whats so unreasonable about a player choosing to not play hockey? are they our personal gladiators?

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Old
09-15-2011, 02:01 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schenn View Post
I'd be willing to offer Komisarek + a decent prospect or gunnarsson for Bailey.
Komisarek has no value whatsoever. He's a boat anchor.

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Old
09-15-2011, 02:02 PM
  #65
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Komisarek has no value whatsoever. He's a boat anchor.
But he is from Long Island, so it's a fit.

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Old
09-15-2011, 02:28 PM
  #66
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Buffalo doesn't have any 'deadline' policies - We would gladly take Bailey off your hands.

How about:

To NYI:

D Andrej Sekera ($2.75M)
C/RW Brad Boyes ($4M)
2012 3rd RND pick

To BUF:

C Josh Bailey ($2.5M???)
LW/C Justin DiBenedetto ($508K)
2013 2nd RND pick


Last edited by Blitz: 09-15-2011 at 02:34 PM.
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Old
09-15-2011, 02:35 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
Buffalo doesn't have any 'deadline' policies - We would gladly take Bailey off your hands.

How about:

To NYI:

D Andrej Sekera ($2.75M)
C/RW Brad Boyes ($4M)
2012 3rd RND pick

To BUF:

C Josh Bailey ($2.5M???)
LW/C Justin DiBenedetto ($508K)
2013 2nd RND pick
I would definitely do that. Gives us a top-4 defenseman and pushes PA to the 4th line.

Moulson-Tavares-Boyes
Grabner-Nielsen-Okposo
Rolston-Reasoner-Comeau
Martin-Haley-Parenteau

Streit-Sekera
MacDonald-Hamonic
Eaton-Jurcina

Nabokov
Montoya

That looks like a playoff team IMO.

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Old
09-15-2011, 02:45 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
I would definitely do that. Gives us a top-4 defenseman and pushes PA to the 4th line.

Moulson-Tavares-Boyes
Grabner-Nielsen-Okposo
Rolston-Reasoner-Comeau
Martin-Haley-Parenteau

Streit-Sekera
MacDonald-Hamonic
Eaton-Jurcina

Nabokov
Montoya

That looks like a playoff team IMO.
I would have to agree with you -

The trade would benefit both teams IMO.

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09-15-2011, 02:45 PM
  #69
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That is horrendus asset management

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09-15-2011, 02:53 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
Buffalo doesn't have any 'deadline' policies - We would gladly take Bailey off your hands.

How about:

To NYI:

D Andrej Sekera ($2.75M)
C/RW Brad Boyes ($4M)
2012 3rd RND pick

To BUF:

C Josh Bailey ($2.5M???)
LW/C Justin DiBenedetto ($508K)
2013 2nd RND pick
Good offer, I'd take it.

Also; Bailey + 2nd for:

Gormley from Phoenix
Martinez from LA
Gardiner from the Leafs
Bouwmeester from Calgary
Bogosian from Winnipeg
Desperes from Pittsburgh

Any chance for any of these deals?

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Old
09-15-2011, 02:59 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Kenny Jonsson View Post
Good offer, I'd take it.

Also; Bailey + 2nd for:

Gormley from Phoenix
Martinez from LA
Gardiner from the Leafs
Bouwmeester from Calgary
Bogosian from Winnipeg
Desperes from Pittsburgh

Any chance for any of these deals?

Josh Bailey
1st Round DP

for


Jake Gardiner
x

Solve for x

Note: just asking this person so no need for everyone to flame everyone


Last edited by Bernier the Boats: 09-15-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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Old
09-15-2011, 03:12 PM
  #72
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Quote:
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Good offer, I'd take it.

Also; Bailey + 2nd for:

Gormley from Phoenix
Martinez from LA
Gardiner from the Leafs
Bouwmeester from Calgary
Bogosian from Winnipeg
Desperes from Pittsburgh

Any chance for any of these deals?
Don't know about the others, but don't see the bolded happening tbh.

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Old
09-15-2011, 03:31 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
You can't say the policy is reasonable without knowing the offer(s) that have been made to Bailey. Did the team withdraw the qualifying offer, and is now insisting on a long-term contract at his current (low) value? Was the team willing to budge at all from the qualifying offer? Was the team willing to offer a 1-way deal?

If the team puts forward a clearly lowball offer, and says take it or you can't play in the NHL this year, then it is not a reasonable policy.


I think there is an assumption that Bailey is being unreasonable in not signing, but it is just that, an assumption. We don't know what Snow's strategy has been during the negotiations.
I'm not discussing this instance. I'm discussing the policy as a whole. It is reasonable for teams to want their players signed by training camp. This policy has been in place for 10 years. How often has it actually become a problem? There is obvious reasonings behind why the policy is in place.

Are the Islanders being reasonable with Bailey's specific offer(s)? I have no idea; I haven't seen the offers. That's not what my point was though.

,
Mitch

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Old
09-15-2011, 03:51 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBurke View Post

Josh Bailey
1st Round DP

for


Jake Gardiner
x

Solve for x
I would do this if DP means Dipietro.

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Old
09-15-2011, 04:06 PM
  #75
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in fariness, you really dont know which side of the equation is being unreasonable, if anyone is at all.

whats so unreasonable about a player choosing to not play hockey? are they our personal gladiators?
Well, according to guidelines of his ELC, he could be qualified by the Islanders at the end of the contract, which took place. If I remember correctly, this standard qualification means one more year at an automatic 10%.

By not accepting the terms of the qualification, his side is ultimately stating that it feels he deserves more than the 10% qualifying raise.

Rushed or not, ALL the balls are in the Islanders' court. Although he'd help the team, he's got the most to loose by not signing to the terms legally offered to him.

With this said, I'm pretty sure the Isles slightly upped the amount they'd be willing to pay, but want him to sign for 2-3 years at that slightly upped amount. Josh's camp may have wanted just one year at that amount as opposed to 2-3.

But again, he's got no real leg to stand on here. I think they have him by the balls and his agent is hoping the Isles change their minds in the last second.

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