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The Evolution of the Carter trade

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Old
09-14-2011, 08:55 AM
  #76
MsWoof
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
I'm really tired, could someone link me (or just quote) this Elliot Friedman thing? thanks.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...ic-summer.html

That's this week's article. The link changes weekly.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...otte-friedman/

That's the archives.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...-thoughts.html

That's the blog in question. And the quote below is what he said about the trade:

Quote:
9) When Philadelphia fell behind Boston 3-0 in the second round, one individual said to me, "Here's a 30 Thought for you: how about the Flyers without Carter and Richards next year?" I said, "I'm not writing that. I'm going to look like an idiot." I was as astonished as anyone else, but it's clear Philly was quietly considering the possibility for awhile. This was not a snap decision.
10) Most common reaction heard from NHL people: Some combination of "For better or worse, the Flyers are fearless" or "Paul Holmgren has big brass ones." But, I am surprised by how many opponents (including a couple in the Atlantic) thought the Flyers will be better. There is a belief, though, Philly will soon lead the league in no-trade/no-move clauses because of how Richards and Carter were treated.
11) Half the league is convinced the Flyers are going after Brad Richards - hard. (I'm still wondering about Detroit making a run at him, especially since Valtterri Filppula appears available in a trade.)
12) Carter took a lot of abuse for the way he handled it, but I'll defend him. It's not the middle of the season, he's not missing games, so what's wrong with going into the cone of silence so you don't say something you regret? There was zero chance of him not reporting.

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Old
09-14-2011, 08:57 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by flountown View Post
Article got a mention on BSH's morning fly by today...WELCOME TO THE BIG SHOW.

That is enough credibility for me.
Is BSH a fan run site? Also, this blog entry is hugely based on Friedman's comment which has since been removed because the blogger wasn't sure which year it referred to.

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Old
09-14-2011, 10:20 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Is BSH a fan run site? Also, this blog entry is hugely based on Friedman's comment which has since been removed because the blogger wasn't sure which year it referred to.
Yes. Every morning BSH posts a collection of articles/blog posts on the Flyers around the web so it doesn't necessarily say anything about their thoughts on the blog.

Personally I don't buy that Holmgren was working on trading Carter since last summer. He wouldn't have signed him to an 11 year deal in November if his intention was to trade him. How screwed up would it be to make Carter believe he is committing his next 11 years to the organization when he was planning on moving him the entire time?

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Old
09-14-2011, 11:05 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Yes. Every morning BSH posts a collection of articles/blog posts on the Flyers around the web so it doesn't necessarily say anything about their thoughts on the blog.

Personally I don't buy that Holmgren was working on trading Carter since last summer. He wouldn't have signed him to an 11 year deal in November if his intention was to trade him. How screwed up would it be to make Carter believe he is committing his next 11 years to the organization when he was planning on moving him the entire time?
I agree, I'm sure the quote Friedman made was from this past spring. I remember him referring to that bit before he put the column out that week and my feeling was he was talking about this year's playoff.

As screwy as Homer's processes are, I also don't think he would have signed him to such a long contract, lied to him about not trading him after getting a good deal and then shipping him off. I think Snider is the one who forced his hand.

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Old
09-14-2011, 04:52 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Is BSH a fan run site? Also, this blog entry is hugely based on Friedman's comment which has since been removed because the blogger wasn't sure which year it referred to.
They are all fans, but being the official Flyers site on SBNation, I believe they are credentialed members of the media, meaning press passes and such.

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Old
09-14-2011, 07:51 PM
  #81
decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...ic-summer.html

That's this week's article. The link changes weekly.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...otte-friedman/

That's the archives.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/ellio...-thoughts.html

That's the blog in question. And the quote below is what he said about the trade:
Thank you MsWoof, I appreciate that.

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Old
09-15-2011, 12:35 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Fair enough. High and wide Carter was a legitimate thing. Granted, there are a lot of snipers in the league who miss quite a bit.

Laziness, defensive-ineptitude, disappearing when physically challenged, only scoring in blowouts...those are all indefensible Carter-bashings.
Carter diesn't miss the net anymore than any other player in the League that shoots the puck a lot does. Well within the mormal parameters. Mike Richards missed the net far more often percentage wise than Carter did.

The rest of those comments are certainly indefensible. Infact their pretty much incorrect.


Last edited by VanSciver: 09-15-2011 at 01:17 PM.
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Old
09-15-2011, 02:08 PM
  #83
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I thought you were banned

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Old
09-15-2011, 02:21 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Carter diesn't miss the net anymore than any other player in the League that shoots the puck a lot does.
Carter misses the net more than most players in the league because he shoots more than most players in the league.

While it is unfair to judge Carter based on his misses, claiming that you are annoyed of hearing "Carter shoots...it's high...and wide." is pretty legitimate.

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Old
09-15-2011, 03:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Carter misses the net more than most players in the league because he shoots more than most players in the league.

While it is unfair to judge Carter based on his misses, claiming that you are annoyed of hearing "Carter shoots...it's high...and wide." is pretty legitimate.
I agree. The point is that if you look at the percentages, Carter's missed shot percentage is pretty much the norm. Mike Richards had a much higher percentage of missed shots in his FLyers career than Carter.

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Old
09-15-2011, 04:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I agree. The point is that if you look at the percentages, Carter's missed shot percentage is pretty much the norm. Mike Richards had a much higher percentage of missed shots in his FLyers career than Carter.
I think that since Carter is gone, the next drinking game should have us having a drink whenever Giroux passes when he should shoot.

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Old
09-15-2011, 05:48 PM
  #87
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We could have a few of them this year

1. Everytime hartnell falls
2. Everytime Hartnell does something stupid
3. Giroux doesn't shoot
4. Carle has a turnover
5. Everytime coatsy miss-pronounces a name.

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Old
09-15-2011, 05:49 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I think that since Carter is gone, the next drinking game should have us having a drink whenever Giroux passes when he should shoot.
My liver wouldn't make it to the All Star game.

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Old
09-15-2011, 09:21 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
We could have a few of them this year

1. Everytime hartnell falls
2. Everytime Hartnell does something stupid
3. Giroux doesn't shoot
4. Carle has a turnover
5. Everytime coatsy miss-pronounces a name.
Add Briere taking a stupid penalty.

Add Jagr not back checking and the other team scoring.

Better stock up on some beer.

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Old
09-15-2011, 09:26 PM
  #90
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Add Briere taking a stupid penalty.

Add Jagr not back checking and the other team scoring.

Better stock up on some beer.
Some beer? ALL of the beer is more like it.

To add to the list: Anytime Voracek shoots high and wide, which according to CBJ fans, is a major problem.

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Old
09-15-2011, 11:40 PM
  #91
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Though I don't believe in evolution, even my keyboard won't put "Carter and Richards traded" and "intelligent design" in the same sentence.

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Old
09-16-2011, 12:03 AM
  #92
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Carter was one of the few players on this team that wasn't afraid of shooting the puck. Carter has the top speed, the size and the ability to match up with any other center which is rare in this league. Carter's offensive and defensive game will be missed greatly.

With that being said it is time to move on from him being on the Flyers and let him help the Blue Jackets get some wins....

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Old
09-16-2011, 12:00 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Some beer? ALL of the beer is more like it.

To add to the list: Anytime Voracek shoots high and wide, which according to CBJ fans, is a major problem.
Actually for Jake you should use "misses a WIDE OPEN net". Or you could use the passes when he should shoot idea as well.

I hope he does well for you guys. He could be an All Star in the league (if he had a bit more drive). He just comes across as a "happy-go-lucky" type personality.

He was a fan favorite, we just wanted (needed) him to take it to the next level. He probably will at some point, just not soon enough for the CBJ.

I've seen various comments about Carter's style on here and concerns about whether he will work with Nash or not. Whether they work well together may actually be irrelevant. What his presence will do is open up the ice for whoever his linemates are.

Last season, Nash was on a line with some combination of Vermette (pass 1st), Brassard (pass 1st), Voracek (pass 1st), Huselius (pass 1st - who works well with Nash but was hurt most of last season), and Umberger (pass or shoot). The problem with this is that pretty much regardless of who was on the ice with Nash, they would try to set him up to take the shot - Voracek and Brassard in particular. So in order to stop the CBJ all you need to do is drape 2 guys on Nash and there goes 50% of the offense.

With both Carter and Nash (whether they are on one line or two) there are 2 guys willing to pull the trigger often. The opposition will have to account for both thus either opening up the ice for both players if they are on the same line or making the opposition pick which line they want their strongest defensive players to be playing against.

Nash's passing is underrated. If they are on the same line, don't be surprised if Carter ends up with more goals than Nash.

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Old
09-16-2011, 01:05 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by cbjgirl View Post
Actually for Jake you should use "misses a WIDE OPEN net". Or you could use the passes when he should shoot idea as well.

I hope he does well for you guys. He could be an All Star in the league (if he had a bit more drive). He just comes across as a "happy-go-lucky" type personality.

He was a fan favorite, we just wanted (needed) him to take it to the next level. He probably will at some point, just not soon enough for the CBJ.

I've seen various comments about Carter's style on here and concerns about whether he will work with Nash or not. Whether they work well together may actually be irrelevant. What his presence will do is open up the ice for whoever his linemates are.

Last season, Nash was on a line with some combination of Vermette (pass 1st), Brassard (pass 1st), Voracek (pass 1st), Huselius (pass 1st - who works well with Nash but was hurt most of last season), and Umberger (pass or shoot). The problem with this is that pretty much regardless of who was on the ice with Nash, they would try to set him up to take the shot - Voracek and Brassard in particular. So in order to stop the CBJ all you need to do is drape 2 guys on Nash and there goes 50% of the offense.

With both Carter and Nash (whether they are on one line or two) there are 2 guys willing to pull the trigger often. The opposition will have to account for both thus either opening up the ice for both players if they are on the same line or making the opposition pick which line they want their strongest defensive players to be playing against.

Nash's passing is underrated. If they are on the same line, don't be surprised if Carter ends up with more goals than Nash.
Carter, meh. I'm glad he's gone. I would undo the Richards trade though.

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Old
09-16-2011, 02:28 PM
  #95
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Carter, meh. I'm glad he's gone. I would undo the Richards trade though.
I would drive Richards to LA from PA. And I don't even drive! Absolutely love the Richards to LA deal.


The Carter deal stings a bit, but it comes down to Voracek & Couturier.

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Old
09-16-2011, 04:24 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Fair enough. High and wide Carter was a legitimate thing. Granted, there are a lot of snipers in the league who miss quite a bit.

Laziness, defensive-ineptitude, disappearing when physically challenged, only scoring in blowouts...those are all indefensible Carter-bashings.
I think Carter's biggest offensive flaw is receiving and releasing the one-time pass. In my observation he would miss-time those plays at a relatively high rate.

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Old
09-16-2011, 10:58 PM
  #97
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IMO, the biggest problem I had with Carter was he was a one trick pony, the wicked wrister. He didn't setup plays, or play physical enough. Come into the zone and shoot. Sure his shot was awesome, but that's all anyone really seen from him, and when his misses the net on his one trick, then the misses become amplified. Its like if that's all ya got, then ya better hit the net more often than not.

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09-17-2011, 10:53 AM
  #98
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IMO, the biggest problem I had with Carter was he was a one trick pony, the wicked wrister. He didn't setup plays, or play physical enough. Come into the zone and shoot. Sure his shot was awesome, but that's all anyone really seen from him, and when his misses the net on his one trick, then the misses become amplified. Its like if that's all ya got, then ya better hit the net more often than not.
It started this way for him when he was with the Soo. For his last two years in Juniors, he was basically the offense for the Hounds. He was quicker and bigger than most players so all that he needed was his speed to get into the offensive zone and then the wrist shot to get his points.
With the Flyers, his defensive game did improve but he never added to what he did in the offensive zone. He has talent but has not mined it well to improve in all aspects of his game especially in areas where there is contact-in front of the net and in the corners.

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09-17-2011, 03:20 PM
  #99
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It started this way for him when he was with the Soo. For his last two years in Juniors, he was basically the offense for the Hounds. He was quicker and bigger than most players so all that he needed was his speed to get into the offensive zone and then the wrist shot to get his points.
With the Flyers, his defensive game did improve but he never added to what he did in the offensive zone. He has talent but has not mined it well to improve in all aspects of his game especially in areas where there is contact-in front of the net and in the corners.
Wonder why Columbus is interested in him then? I wish the Flyers had some more of these "one trick pony players" in their lineup. The guy is one of the top goal scorers in the entire League 3 years running now, and he constantly get's labeled with these uninformed opinions on his game. It's a shame.

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Old
09-17-2011, 03:51 PM
  #100
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Hes frustrating to watch because you think there could be more there. But he seems uninterested in doing more. I guess if it's not broke don't fix it. But adding more to your game can't hurt you I think what frustrates the most is he seems content with what he does and it seems like he does not improve he just is what he is and if he never works will never be more then that.

That said I do think his production will increase more this year simply due to ice time.

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