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Sather and the Homegrown Rebuilding of the Rangers

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Old
09-15-2011, 08:10 PM
  #101
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Not that it matters but home grown means you were drafted by the Team..We didnt draft either we traded for them..Im glad we have both.




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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
How aren't they?

Both will have made their NHL debut as Rangers, and the Rangers are going to be the ones to develop them.

They're home grown.

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09-15-2011, 08:13 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Gemma View Post
That's not what I'm saying, 29 other teams passed on him at least 6 times before he was selected, same with Lundqvist. You do not do that if you have a sure fire can't miss prospect. It's a crapshoot, you can equate it to I go to Vegas play roulette and win big. Doesn't mean I'm an expert in the spinning wheel, it just means I'm extremely lucky and had a very good day. Detroit happen to be the big winner that day.

Do you really want to go through the list of players from the 7th round and see how many of them actually make it to the NHL let alone become a superstar?

A broken clock is also right twice a day.
Again, if it's luck and chance, fire the scouts. There's no need for talent evaluation. Theres no value in seeing kids and being able to project what they'll be in two years. Or five. It's chance, luck and guessing. Guess the Wings arent better. Just luckier. Or is there clock just somehow right more often — somehow.

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09-15-2011, 08:43 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Again, if it's luck and chance, fire the scouts. There's no need for talent evaluation. Theres no value in seeing kids and being able to project what they'll be in two years. Or five. It's chance, luck and guessing. Guess the Wings arent better. Just luckier. Or is there clock just somehow right more often somehow.

http://*******************/articles/...-years/page/31

Detroit ranks in at #15, middle of the league in drafting players that become NHL regulars over the last 10 years. A whopping 13.5% of their picks, Rangers are ranked #23 with 11.9%, Montreal ranks #1 with 21.6%. So basically 1 out every 5 picks they make, become regular NHL'ers, and that's the best team in the league at drafting over the past 10 years!

Yes you need to identify talent, yes you have to try and project where they will be in 2 or 5 years, but no one has a crystal ball that tells them that. Hence their is no science to it, it's mostly based around gut feeling.

Any way you slice it, a 7th round pick is a throwaway pick. No one is expecting a regular nhl'er to come out of that round let alone a superstar.

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09-15-2011, 09:37 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Regarding the topic of the thread, I'm in agreement with most on the "results = praise" front. Does the team look posied to be a strong, potential contender? Absolutely. Does Sather deserve credit before the team proves so, however? Absolutely not.
*sigh* I really didn't want to weigh in on this again, but I feel the uncontrollable need to throw out a couple of things.

First of all, can we give Sather credit for building a team that looks "poised to be a strong, potential contender" without saying Sather has done a great job as GM? I think we can. I think we can even do this while viewing anything Sather does through a veil of cynicism.

Second of all, I think the entire "results=praise" crowd vastly exaggerates what the other side thinks of Sather's job and his tenure. No one is ready to call Sather's job a great one or even a good one on a wholistic level. Most of us on this side of the argument say "good lately, but not good enough to change my overall opinion of him"

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09-15-2011, 09:57 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
Not that it matters but home grown means you were drafted by the Team..We didnt draft either we traded for them..Im glad we have both.
Girardi isn't homegrown?

Homegrown, to me, means that team developed him at the Pro level.

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09-15-2011, 09:59 PM
  #106
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I often wonder how much the salary cap has played into Sather's success (relative to what he did here pre-lockout) since 2005. An NHL with no cap could have meant even more bad free agent signings and fewer young players who the Rangers drafted and developed.

Don't understand the accusations of people being "haters." They're not hating, they're just not interested in "what could be" and other potential scenarios some time off in the future. They're interested in concrete results. Nothing wrong with that. Progress and development, like winning divisions and proceeding deep into the playoffs. Sather was hired 11 years ago, not last month. Yet a few fans out there are still content to look towards the future and all the promise it holds. It didn't take Chiarelli in Boston this long to turn around a terrible Bruins team.

Like people have said before, the Rangers should have entered the post-lockout era with a new GM.

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09-15-2011, 10:24 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Neither Callahan nor Staal are superstars.

Like I said, we have a lot of young, likeable, solid players. Nothing untouchable though. No Weber, Doughty, Stamkos, Perry, etc.




I see a lot of words here, but no valid points regarding why anyone should applaud Sather for continuously failing year after year, for 11 season's now. :Facepalm:
In ten years, twenty years, and fifty years from now, are you going to remember this team if it doesn't accomplish anything? If we continue to squeek into the playoffs and get ousted without making any noise, what does it matter?

Some people are pleased making 36K a year. Others, not so much. Some people are satisfied finishing at 4th or 6th place in a race. Others, not so much.

Some people are copacetic with mediocrity. Others, not so much. All you did was paint a picture about the things that matter to you with this franchise. What you didn't do, is pay any tribute by what other people rightfully care about. In this case, results.
Hmm maybe b/c I dont give a crap about Sather I care about the team. Hmm what a unique concept looking at the team instead of the moron GM. The TEAM is great. I love my TEAM. The TEAM I love is achieving despite the moronic GM. The moronic Gm has not been in the way for 3 years now and now that he's gotten out of his own teams way the team looks great. So cry like a little girl and demand results as if you matter but that fact is you don't matter so your demand just sounds like the pathetic whining of some1 who needs to live vicariously through his teams stanley cup victory and anything less is worthless. That's sad that you and several "fans" around here seem so desperate for a cup that it takes precedence over loving your team...I mean you aren't doing crap except sitting on your coach alone staring at the TV so why do you need so desperately to watcha bunch of guys who don't know you win the cup? You clearly don't give a damn about them without a cup so why so big on needing to see them win it? That "I demand satisfaction" attitude's the line between passion and needing to live vicariously through your team. My suggestion is get a good hobby and be proud of your individual success and then go love and enjoy every second of great hockey you get. Because you might as well stare at a wall and demand a cup from it you'll get the same amount of caring and attention.

Since 1940 there are no teams besides the 94 that people remember? Please you are starting to sound like the biggest pathetic bandwagon fan ever.

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09-15-2011, 10:41 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Call me close-minded but I just don't see any point in praising a guy for assembling a team that hasn't even played a game yet.

Praising a GM for doing what any competent GM would do just seems kind of trivial. We're at the point where we give Sather a pat on the back for not ****ing things up. I think that in itself is telling of his success (or lack thereof) as a GM.
But clearly many others see the point in whining (Most much moreso than you personally) and complaining no matter what outcome if it doesn't result in a cup. In fact manys eem to be whining about this years team...so I guess it makes sense to question people for being excited about a good team but what you fail to question are the people who whine that this team won't win anything. So their Nostradamus act makes more sense I guess for some arbitrary reason. And only the most irrational of fans would claim that success is tied solely to championship rings as many on here do. Think of all time greats like Bobby Mercer, the GAG guys, JD, Curtis Martin, Wayne Chrebet, Piazza, guys who are worthy of praise and fan affection. They earned our respect and admiration and so has this team of guys. It's sad to see how many fairweather bandwagoners seem to be on these boards although maybe I'm overgeneralizing everybody based on a comment only boom boom made but the rest of you certainly seem to be indicating similar feelings...cup or ur worthless.

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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The haters choose to judge a GM on the success of the team.
It's not haters we're dealing with. Sather hate is one thing. It's the Ranger hate that shows how a lot of these fans are just bandwagon babies who only care about seeing a cup victory. No player loyalty, no appreciation for the game or as Boom proved no appreciation for the franchise history and amazing players that have been apart of it simply because they didn't get a cup. It's not about love for the team and hating a GM for standing in the team's way no it's about the fact that many seem intent on pretending they actually are the team so the GM let them down personally the GM got in their way of "winning".

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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
*sigh* I really didn't want to weigh in on this again, but I feel the uncontrollable need to throw out a couple of things.

First of all, can we give Sather credit for building a team that looks "poised to be a strong, potential contender" without saying Sather has done a great job as GM? I think we can. I think we can even do this while viewing anything Sather does through a veil of cynicism.

Second of all, I think the entire "results=praise" crowd vastly exaggerates what the other side thinks of Sather's job and his tenure. No one is ready to call Sather's job a great one or even a good one on a wholistic level. Most of us on this side of the argument say "good lately, but not good enough to change my overall opinion of him"
Perfectly said. Rational. Logical. Quite frankly I still feel Sather blows but I'm not so blinded by my hatred of Sather that I fail miserably to separate the team from my own selfishness and hatred as many in this thread seem to.
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
I liken Sather to an artistic painter. He's gone out and procured the best brushes, paints, and canvases. He's brought in people who have a keen eye for supplies. He has all the tools to the produce a truly magnificent painting. But he has yet to paint a single stroke let alone a masterpiece. However, there are those who are willing to call him one of the best artists of the decade...because they like his brushes.
And yet nobody claimed he's painted a masterpiece so your speaking out of your butt. It'd be a good analogy if half the people weren't acknowledging that Sather finally got out of his own way and that Sather was cap strapped and MAYBE learned his lesson. Oh yes clearly the words of people worshipping at Sather's feet.

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Originally Posted by surf View Post
Not that it matters but home grown means you were drafted by the Team..We didnt draft either we traded for them..Im glad we have both.
So by this logic Favre is not a Packer and Curtis Martin is not a Jet. McD could become a HOF but he'd never be a Ranger. Really by your definition homegrown is a worthless term. The point is are they Rangers or not? Was Naslund? No. Is McD if he spends his career here? Yes. Are Boyle or Prust if they continue to be what they've been? Yes. Was Messier? Yes? Honestly for what he brought it's iffy but I consider Jagr a Ranger too. Thlough I'm not stupid enough to say they were only Rangers I appreciated and admired what they brought here too much to pretend like they were just also rans.


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Old
09-15-2011, 11:13 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Let's give Sather credit? Thank you Sather, for realizing after over 10 years that this is how to run a team.

What we're seeing now is the fruit of years of better drafting.


I have high hopes for this team. Many here think they are mediocre but I think they are better than that. I think they are generally undervalued.

It might be seen as wishful thinking, but I really believe its a great team that has been missing a scoring spark to ignite more offense all down the lines.

Add that spark + a maturing defense + Henke = A winner.

Young teams take a while to get there and the way the cap and free agency work now you have to time those acquisitions perfectly to capture a window of opportunity.

For all their amazing talent acquired from the draft Washington struggles to get past the Rangers. Would anyone be surprised if we pulled an upset over the Bruins in the playoffs, because they struggle to beat the Rangers as well...

This team is better than many of you think. You've been down on the team so long you can't see the rose is about to blossom.

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Old
09-16-2011, 01:04 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JimmyStart View Post
The TEAM is great. I love my TEAM. The TEAM I love is achieving despite the moronic GM.That's sad that you and several "fans" around here seem so desperate for a cup that it takes precedence over loving your team...
What a bunch of baloney.

On what planet is the team great? Just because your perception of the word great deviates largely from the accepted definition for the term doesn't mean that you love the team anymore than anyone else. To date, the team has achieved NOTHING, primarily because of the moronic GM.

IMO, it's quite sad that you can't figure out that virtually no one believes that it's "cup or bust," but rather that most people are simply desperate to see a cup contending team, because that inherently would allow them to watch a great hockey team, something that has never come even close to happening during the reign of Sather. For people with a deeper love of the sport than yours may be, loving a particular edition of a team is next to impossible unless that team is capable of consistently playing great, world class hockey.

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Originally Posted by JimmyStart View Post
And only the most irrational of fans would claim that success is tied solely to championship rings as many on here do. They earned our respect and admiration and so has this team of guys. It's sad to see how many fairweather bandwagoners seem to be on these boards although maybe I'm overgeneralizing everybody based on a comment only boom boom made but the rest of you certainly seem to be indicating similar feelings...cup or ur worthless.
Only the most irrational fan would assert that this team is great, when this team has eluded greatness in favor of pure mediocrity as if success were a fatal disease. It isn't even rational to predict greatness from this team this coming season. A prediction of "good" is fair.

Your posts on this matter have done little other than overgeneralize. I'm a fairweather bandwagon fan because I'm tired of watching boring, predictable, beer league style hockey? Tremendously entertaining hockey tends to include displays of hockey strategy, particularly at the offensive end, executed to perfection, and a good deal of it to boot. I was in elementary school the last time that was the case for the Rangers. Teams that lack skill and talent, as has been the case for the duration of Sather's tenure due to his illogical approach to teambuilding, play far less entertaining hockey.

Quote:
no appreciation for the game or as Boom proved no appreciation for the franchise history and amazing players that have been apart of it simply because they didn't get a cup. It's not about love for the team and hating a GM for standing in the team's way no it's about the fact that many seem intent on pretending they actually are the team so the GM let them down personally the GM got in their way of "winning".
AFAIC, being thoroughly entertained by mediocre hockey; interpreting that to be "great," is nothing if not a signal of a lack of appreciation for the game. If you truly treasure hockey in its finest form, you can't possibly believe that what you've seen to this point is worth loving. It simply isn't the same thing. The GM didn't get in my way of winning, but he sure got in the way of my opportunity to love a team that plays hockey the way it's meant to be played, and he's been doing it from the moment he got here till the moment the last season ended.

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09-16-2011, 04:29 AM
  #111
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I agree we need to see results before we anoint Sather........but the thing that he has done that I like is that he has changed the entire philosophy of this franchise.......from a franchise of mercenaries to a franchise that values scouting and player development. Also as an lifetime NYer I admire that he has tried to field a competitive team every year...no tanking for a quick fix. Good to see pride shown.

You blame the GM when things are crap...you also have to give the GM credit when things turn around.........as they certainly appear to be.

I see his tenure here as a two part story...pre and post lockout...nightmare pre lock out... and although the book isnt closed yet...looking like very good post lock out.

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09-16-2011, 06:24 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by morffin View Post
I see his tenure here as a two part story...pre and post lockout...nightmare pre lock out... and although the book isnt closed yet...looking like very good post lock out.
Even post lockout the team has been mediocre, as I showed on page 4.

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09-16-2011, 07:00 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Gemma View Post
http://*******************/articles/...-years/page/31

Detroit ranks in at #15, middle of the league in drafting players that become NHL regulars over the last 10 years. A whopping 13.5% of their picks, Rangers are ranked #23 with 11.9%, Montreal ranks #1 with 21.6%. So basically 1 out every 5 picks they make, become regular NHL'ers, and that's the best team in the league at drafting over the past 10 years!

Yes you need to identify talent, yes you have to try and project where they will be in 2 or 5 years, but no one has a crystal ball that tells them that. Hence their is no science to it, it's mostly based around gut feeling.

Any way you slice it, a 7th round pick is a throwaway pick. No one is expecting a regular nhl'er to come out of that round let alone a superstar.
I'm talking about players who make become NHL regulars. I'm talking about player who become stars.

I'm also not talking about a 7th round pick.

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09-16-2011, 07:01 AM
  #114
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I see his tenure here as a two part story...pre and post lockout...nightmare pre lock out... and although the book isnt closed yet...looking like very good post lock out.
I fail to see what is so extraordinary about the second part. He finally didn't waste away draft picks either by including them in trades or by drafting poorly.

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09-16-2011, 07:44 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I fail to see what is so extraordinary about the second part. He finally didn't waste away draft picks either by including them in trades or by drafting poorly.
Our 2nd round and beyond drafting post lockout has been great. Our first rounders a lot less so, but as an organization we've been very successful in getting NHLers out of the draft.

Not saying anything about Sather but I do agree with the marked difference pre and post lockout.

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09-16-2011, 09:09 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Our 2nd round and beyond drafting post lockout has been great. Our first rounders a lot less so, but as an organization we've been very successful in getting NHLers out of the draft.

Not saying anything about Sather but I do agree with the marked difference pre and post lockout.
This I agree with, and its also the main reason why the team continues to develop complimentary/role players instead of the cheap, elite talent thats needed to win in the league today.

The jury is obviously still out on Del Zotto, Kreider, McIlrath, and Miller (although a lot of people here will mindlessly spew that they are all the next big thing), but the second biggest indictment on Sather's tenure here has been his lack of success in the first round. Besides Staal, its been just really, really poor when it comes to players you can evaluate years after their draft year since 2000.

The single biggest indictment on Sather's tenure have been his ridiculous free agent signings, most of which have come post-lockout, the same timeframe people are trying to say hes done a good job.

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09-16-2011, 09:19 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
thats a cute little analogy but it doesnt actually work

first, sather doesnt coach or play...he's a general manager...his job is to assemble the pieces, moniter how they progress, and make changes when necessary, but at the end of the day hes not the one doing the "painting" as you describe...so your analogy actually paints a picture of him doing a good job (see what i did there? )

You're over-thinking it. At the end of the day, he has a job to do. When the team starts bearing the fruit of his efforts (as it should, right?), then we can start labeling him a successful GM. That was the point of the anology. Would you call anyone great/successful if they weren't producing the results required of their position?


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secondly, no one (in their right mind) is willing to call him the best anything of the decade
"One of the best GMs since the lockout" (which is now, what, 7 years ago?) isn't thrown around here whenever these threads spring up?

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people are merely saying (or should be saying) that he has assembled what appears to be some good pieces at this point in time...and thats a fact, regaurdless of any history or anyones personal opinions on how the last decade has played out
Saying U2 sucks Donkey Balls but thinking Bloody Sunday is a good song is one thing. Only listening to Blood Sunday's drum track and claiming it's a great song is something else. I'm arguing against the latter not the former.

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09-16-2011, 09:33 AM
  #118
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I don't really get how people can't seem to strike a middle ground when it comes to Sather.

Yes he made a lot of bad moves, the team hasn't been very good, there's no reason to heap praise on him like he has been a successful GM here

At the same time, it's not like the things he has done pretty well can't be acknowledged. He did revive a scouting team and player development system that was in absolute shambles. It may not be the best in the NHL, though I like the guys in charge now for the most part, but it has been supplying the Rangers with quality prospects for years now and helped them build up a homegrown core of the team. It has its flaws, in that they haven't drafted a top flight offensive star, though again for all the people really getting on their case about that, I point at Cherepanov and ask you to realize we'd have our first line LW right now this very second if he hadn't tragically died...that was a great pick of a very good player with a ton of skill that would have been a great weapon for this team for years...some things you just can't control.

I also think the Cherepanov incident scared the Rangers off from drafting someone like Tarasenko...if they can't have control over their prospects development I think that makes the Rangers nervous now. Omsk doctors ****ed up in treating Cherepanov, made things worse, and he died. From a business perspective I'm sure the Rangers look at that and go "what the christ, why would we ever want to leave important **** like this in the hands of other people"

I still really wish they'd drafted Tarasenko though...I think that's gonna be a mistake no matter how McIlrath turns out.

ANYWAYS. blah. Sather has done some good things and some bad things, but in the end it looks like the Rangers have a solid team that is young and moving forward and has a chance to be a contender soon. I give him credit for assembling some good pieces, but now I want to see some success come from that. No need to declare him the best or the worst or anything like that

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09-16-2011, 09:38 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by JimmyStart View Post
And yet nobody claimed he's painted a masterpiece so your speaking out of your butt. It'd be a good analogy if half the people weren't acknowledging that Sather finally got out of his own way and that Sather was cap strapped and MAYBE learned his lesson. Oh yes clearly the words of people worshipping at Sather's feet.

I accused people of whorshipping at Sather's feet? Whoa...bummer.

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09-16-2011, 09:50 AM
  #120
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How about this:

This is the first offseason - ever - since Sather joined the organization where he hasn't done a single thing that I disagreed with. The team has a lot of good, young homegrown players that are the result of good drafting (outside of the first round) since the lockout. I am more excited for this team than I have been for any team since the late 90s.

This is a good thing. I applaud the front office for the efforts that got us here. (Mind you, I say the front office, because I think that Gorton and Torts had more to do with it than Slats.) I am happy with the team now and I give kudos for the work done in the offseason and for much of the work done in previous years that have led to this point.

None of this, however, mitigate the mistakes of the past - including mistakes as recently as last year when the team made a stupid first round pick and signed an enforcer to a stupid contract. I am not prepared to say that Sather has done a good job overall and it would require another 3 to 5 years of serious playoff contention before I would be willing to say that he had managed to make up for all the bad he had done in the first half of his career.

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09-16-2011, 09:55 AM
  #121
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How about this:

This is the first offseason - ever - since Sather joined the organization where he hasn't done a single thing that I disagreed with. The team has a lot of good, young homegrown players that are the result of good drafting (outside of the first round) since the lockout. I am more excited for this team than I have been for any team since the late 90s.

This is a good thing. I applaud the front office for the efforts that got us here. (Mind you, I say the front office, because I think that Gorton and Torts had more to do with it than Slats.) I am happy with the team now and I give kudos for the work done in the offseason and for much of the work done in previous years that have led to this point.

None of this, however, mitigate the mistakes of the past - including mistakes as recently as last year when the team made a stupid first round pick and signed an enforcer to a stupid contract. I am not prepared to say that Sather has done a good job overall and it would require another 3 to 5 years of serious playoff contention before I would be willing to say that he had managed to make up for all the bad he had done in the first half of his career.
i wasnt thrilled at bringing back Fedotenko, but after watching Traverse City, I think he made the right decision.

He's done a good job this offseason, so i'll just choose to focus on that.

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09-16-2011, 09:56 AM
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I give him credit for assembling some good pieces, but now I want to see some success come from that. No need to declare him the best or the worst or anything like that
This is essentially where I stand now. I don't like Sather as a GM...I don't trust his abilities. However, he's surrounded himself with people whose abilities I do trust and moves have beend made that I do like. As far as I'm concerned, Phase I of the rebuild is over. Time to start Phase II.

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09-16-2011, 09:56 AM
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What a bunch of baloney.

On what planet is the team great? Just because your perception of the word great deviates largely from the accepted definition for the term doesn't mean that you love the team anymore than anyone else. To date, the team has achieved NOTHING, primarily because of the moronic GM.

Great is arbitrary find something rational to debate. I love this team and stand by it. What they did last year and the organization as a whole as it is constituted is great to me because it provides me with great hockey and excitement. I don't define great by the ridiculous cup only criteria of certian bandwagoners. I agree the GM is a moron I clearly said that.

IMO, it's quite sad that you can't figure out that virtually no one believes that it's "cup or bust," but rather that most people are simply desperate to see a cup contending team, because that inherently would allow them to watch a great hockey team, something that has never come even close to happening during the reign of Sather. For people with a deeper love of the sport than yours may be, loving a particular edition of a team is next to impossible unless that team is capable of consistently playing great, world class hockey.

As I said maybe I was overgeneralizing I sorta said that. When you discount the 54 years pre 94 and say nobody remember those players because they didnt accomplish something well that's called cup or bust. Again though i said it was Boom's comment tho many SEEM to share that feeling. I said that.

Only the most irrational fan would assert that this team is great, when this team has eluded greatness in favor of pure mediocrity as if success were a fatal disease. It isn't even rational to predict greatness from this team this coming season. A prediction of "good" is fair.

Sorry didn't know great had a strict definition as far as how fans are allowed to characterize their professional sports teams. Did you release dictionaries and an encyclopedia for us to read so we know how to fall in line with your definitions your eminence? Sounds pretty arbitrary. A prediction of bad-great falls in there for this team. I thought they'd be bottom 5 last year myself. Personally feeling anything in that range is OK. Questioning others for loving the team and claiming the team is worthless and never has or will achieve anything is irrational.

Your posts on this matter have done little other than overgeneralize. I'm a fairweather bandwagon fan because I'm tired of watching boring, predictable, beer league style hockey? Tremendously entertaining hockey tends to include displays of hockey strategy, particularly at the offensive end, executed to perfection, and a good deal of it to boot. I was in elementary school the last time that was the case for the Rangers. Teams that lack skill and talent, as has been the case for the duration of Sather's tenure due to his illogical approach to teambuilding, play far less entertaining hockey.

Did I say your name? No...oh ok so it sounds like guilty conscience then. Did I say you were a bandwagon fan for the reasons you listed? No I said that if you dsicount all the history of this team simply for not winning a cup...y'know what go read I mean seriously... didn't I say I may be overgeneralizing? Did I not admit this? DO you read?

AFAIC, being thoroughly entertained by mediocre hockey; interpreting that to be "great," is nothing if not a signal of a lack of appreciation for the game. If you truly treasure hockey in its finest form, you can't possibly believe that what you've seen to this point is worth loving. It simply isn't the same thing. The GM didn't get in my way of winning, but he sure got in the way of my opportunity to love a team that plays hockey the way it's meant to be played, and he's been doing it from the moment he got here till the moment the last season ended.
Ah so on that point we are now only allowed to love our team if they win the cup or play the hockey style that we arbitrarily deem worthy of the ice. It sounds like "My kid is not an honor student so I don't love him." Only you're even more broad. "My hockey team does not play according to my style so not only do I not love them but nobody is allowed to love them" Sounds like a lonely selfish, miserable way to think. GL with that.

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I accused people of whorshipping at Sather's feet? Whoa...bummer.
No but you did something called EXAAAAAGERATING which I then did back to you. You really couldn't figure that out? Geez I don't mean to talk down to ya kid but it was pretty obvious there...Gj ignoring the important parts that obliterated your awfully bad, poorly thought out comparison b/t masterpieces, fan support ( that doesn't exist in the way you were suggesting it does) and Sather


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09-16-2011, 10:04 AM
  #124
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Ah so on that point we are now only allowed to love our team if they win the cup or play the hockey style that we arbitrarily deem worthy of the ice. It sounds like "My kid is not an honor student so I don't love him." Only you're even more broad. "My hockey team does not play according to my style so not only do I not love them but nobody is allowed to love them" Sounds like a lonely selfish, miserable way to think. GL with that.
Superfan, its certainly not impossible to love the players and the sweater while criticizing management and the direction they've taken this franchise over the past decade+ (especially when it definitely merits criticism like Sather's tenure has). Judging by your often incoherent rants, maybe this sort of cognitive thinking if above your paygrade.

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09-16-2011, 10:14 AM
  #125
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Superfan, its certainly not impossible to love the players and the sweater while criticizing management and the direction they've taken this franchise over the past decade+
Gee whiz maybe since I'm only talking about Boom's comments and several others comments that indicated cup or bust for the TEAM (not the GM) and maybe since I'm saying Sather sucks but I love this TEAM. maybe I agree... You missed the point completely I'm argueing against the viewpoint that 54 years of franchise history are remembered by no one b/c there was no cup. If we routinely manage to make the playoffs and be in the top 6 for the next years to come... maybe an ECF or SCF appearance this is all worth remembering, it's worth cheering, it's worth loving as a fan but i'm argueing against the viewpoint that this is not worth a damn. I'm saying what you just said only I'm also criticizing what is clearly a bandwagon viewpoint by a few fans. Not all. A few. Again I even said I may be overgeneralizing so don't take it that way because I was referring mostly to Boom...which I said... If you agree with that cup or bust then I'm talking to you. If you feel it is possible to love your team and hate the GM I am NOT talking to you.

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