I think Zibanejad will turn out to be a pretty fair #6 pick. He could well turn out better than Strome and Huberdeau but I still believe that Couturier will have a more productive career than any of them. It's all pretty speculative at this point but I think that the speed Zibanejad demonstrated will at least ensure he won't turn out to be the next Daniel Tkaczuk.
I'd be happy with that. I secretly wish he develops into a 1C in about 5-6 years and then Spezza will be pushed down to 2C at 32 or whatever.
I can't imagine Spezza ever being pushed to 2C unless he becomes even more injury prone than he already is. If MZ were to become the reincarnation of Toews or Kesler we'd simply have 2 solid scoring lines which would almost be interchangeable.
If Mikachu ever surpasses Spezza offensively we'd be up there with the elite teams in terms of centre depth. Think Pittsburgh or Chicago. That would be a dream come true!
I think you have to breakout as a rookie before you get a chance to have the sophomore slump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked
This.
He played well for a 20 game stretch (if that), not a season.
From mid-Dec 2009 to mid-Nov 2010, Regin put up a line of 73-14-24-38.
Actually, what I find more absurd about this line of thinking is that Regin has had a pretty good track record everywhere (SEL, AHL) and had a good rookie season where he just kept getting better and better. Then he puts up 1 point in 29 games in the middle of a disasterous season for his team and he's finished as a prospect... a Sen and an NHL'er.
Last season's Regin/Foligno/Clouston is starting to feel comparable to 07-08's Emery/Gerber/Paddock... where the previous season's young postseason hero is replaced after a hotstreak and proceeds to sulk and struggle through a lacklustre season as rabid Sun readers turn on him.
MacLean named Foligno as one of the leaders on the team, I really doubt Nick will be the odd man out.
IMO Foligno would be a much more effective 3rd liner than Regin would. Foligno is bigger, stronger, more physical, younger and has proven to me more productive than Regin.
Back onto Mika:
I just faxed in my order for a Zibanejad heritage jersey. I don't think that Mika will be the second coming or Gretzky or anything that absurb, I just wanted a name on the back of the jersey that would coincide with the 20th anniversary. I had a good feeling about getting Karlsson on the back of my jersey during the 2009 training camp, I feel the same about Mika as I did back then.
MacLean did mention Foligno, but maybe it is worth considering it happened because Nick was there when that interview took place.
As for your thoughts on Nick being better suited for 3rd line duty, at 6' 208 he isn't bigger than Regin (6'2' 205), he isn't as fast as Regin, he isn't as defensively aware as Regin and while he could be more physical he isn't, primarily because he sees himself as a top six scorer.
The one thing you are right about, he is younger, by a year and a few months.
So Nick isn't assured of anything, any more than Regin, Da Costa, or any of the young guys looking for jobs. What might save some of them is the one-way deals, for the short term
MacLean did mention Foligno, but maybe it is worth considering it happened because Nick was there when that interview took place.
As for your thoughts on Nick being better suited for 3rd line duty, at 6' 208 he isn't bigger than Regin (6'2' 205), he isn't as fast as Regin, he isn't as defensively aware as Regin and while he could be more physical he isn't, primarily because he sees himself as a top six scorer.
The one thing you are right about, he is younger, by a year and a few months.
So Nick isn't assured of anything, any more than Regin, Da Costa, or any of the young guys looking for jobs. What might save some of them is the one-way deals, for the short term
Foligno was third on the team in hits 101, more than triple Regin's total. He also lead the team in blocked shots.
Additionally, if Foligno is 6' 208lbs while Regin is 3 inches taller and weighs less, not only does Foligno have more mass, he is likely more built than Regin.
I guess I was right about more than just his age eh?
Foligno was third on the team in hits 101, more than triple Regin's total. He also lead the team in blocked shots.
Additionally, if Foligno is 6' 208lbs while Regin is 3 inches taller and weighs less, not only does Foligno have more mass, he is likely more built than Regin.
I guess I was right about more than just his age eh?
While I must admit his hit numbers surprise me a little, I just don't see him as a physical player. As a matter of fact, players like Lee, Greening and Winchester all would have been ahead of him in hits had they played 82 games as well. BTW my comment about Nick's physical play wasn't meant as a comparative.
On your second point, Foligno did NOT lead the team in blocked shots, not close.
As far as the mass thing, we are talking about 3 pounds, nothing of any significance, even if their body types are different.
One point you may want to consider when looking at Nicks stats, he was 5th in TOI, which would/should have benefitted his stats in other areas. Nick had almost double the minutes Regin had.
Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 09-16-2011 at 01:56 AM.
The keys to great offence production are skating ability & speed, anticipation (reading the play/ utilizing teamates), vision, creativity, soft hands and determination.
None of these things are a bag of tricks and each of the players you mentioned above possess above average ability in three or more of the above areas. It is the level of the skill they possess that makes their "signature" moves effective, not the other way around.
Comparing Foligno to MZ on any level in an attempt to make a point is really disingenious. While it is true Mike will make 2 or 3 incredible plays over 82 games, he lacks the requisite skills to do it will any consistency.
MZ on the other hand already possess those skills, the only question is how will he utilize them in the development of his game. Therein lies the mystery, only the future will reveal.
I'm not sure what I said to be disingenious here.
Foligno was a 1st round draft pick with some offensive upside when drafted. We've seen enough to know that upside is limited to that of a 20 goal scorer most likely, but that doesn't mean using his skillset as an example of one that can't produce huge numbers isn't a valid one. Keep in mind I'm not say ZBad will be a Folgno either.
As to your grasp of MZ's skills a week into his first games in NA, it's interesting that you have such clear scouting report on his offensive abilities after only a few rookie games. As noted, he hasn't produced elite #'s at any level yet, and while his skillset and size give the indication he could have some higher tier offensive abilities, it hasn't materialized quite yet. Let's not put the cart before the horse here.
And before you jump all over me, I'm not down on the guy at all. But I don't see taking a pass between the legs on the fly in a rookie game as indication this guy has elite level skill in the Forsberg / Jagr territory. Try to remember that is the context of my post and the discussion you jumped into.
Zibbys gonna make the team as I have posted previously. He will produce better than Foligno Regin Greening Filatov and make the Murrays look like geniouses. Look Heres my scouting report: He was the best player at the rookie tournament. PERIOD. Im thinkin several of those players will make there teams and have some success. And he stands out more than anyone. (with possible exception of Da Costa)He still has to go to training camp and go thru the preseason with some success but come on if he makes the team he plays with Alfy on his wing more than likely. Hell do well and be well lead. If we put him into the NHL this year he should realisticly contend for the calder he realy is that damb good. The Murrays know what there doing and would not have waisted a 6th over all pick on him if he wasnt THAT DAMB GOOD.
I'm not sure what I said to be disingenious here. Foligno was a 1st round draft pick with some offensive upside when drafted. We've seen enough to know that upside is limited to that of a 20 goal scorer most likely, but that doesn't mean using his skillset as an example of one that can't produce huge numbers isn't a valid one. Keep in mind I'm not say ZBad will be a Folgno either.
As to your grasp of MZ's skills a week into his first games in NA, it's interesting that you have such clear scouting report on his offensive abilities after only a few rookie games. As noted, he hasn't produced elite #'s at any level yet, and while his skillset and size give the indication he could have some higher tier offensive abilities, it hasn't materialized quite yet. Let's not put the cart before the horse here.
And before you jump all over me, I'm not down on the guy at all. But I don't see taking a pass between the legs on the fly in a rookie game as indication this guy has elite level skill in the Forsberg / Jagr territory. Try to remember that is the context of my post and the discussion you jumped into.
I don't wish to debate why Nick was a first round pick, but if I were to take a wild guess, it probably had more to do with Muckler's history with Mike than Nick's offensive upside. As I recall, Muckler said while explaining the rationale for picking Nick, "Well, he plays very much like his Dad. He’s got the same type of spirit that his father had.” Not sure those words were a strong endorsement of Nick's offensive upside.
Since clarification seems to be in order, I think Nick has a reasonable skill set for a third line player, though I do think his skating could improve. My biggest concern about Nick is after three years in the NHL, he is showing remarkably little progress in understanding how to use his skills to reach his maximum potential. Each year seems to be a carbon copy of the previous one IMO.
Last year Nick had the most ice time of any forward on the team, yet produced 14 goals and 34 points. This type of production doesn't warrant top six minutes, lessen the minutes and PP time, you are probably looking at 6-10 goal scorer at best. Also he needs to improve his defensive awareness to be a solid third liner. While I am not a believer in evaluating solely by stats, it does provide an indicator and Nick did possess the worst puls/minus of any Sens forward.
This is why I suggested comparing Nick to MZ was disingenious. Mika has top six written all over him. His skills are way beyond what Nick posseses now, let alone what Nick had as an eighteen year old.
My opinion on Mika's skills is based on having watched him play in the SEL, at the Sens development camp, the informal workouts and the three recent games. I suppose I see in MZ what Dorion and other members of the Sens management team see, a young kid with size, high compete level, speed and loads of skill.
While your comment about him breaking out is true, there is a difference between possessing skill and utilizing skill to be productive. It is a large part of the development process for any young player, Mika being no exception.
However his production shouldn't be minimized either, in 26 games in the SEL he scored 5 goals and added 4 assists for 9 points in 26 games. His point total was the most by an under-18 player in the league. He also played in 7 playoff games, scoring a goal and an assist. This is against men, in one of the premier leagues in the world.
As well he played for Sweden at the 2011 Under-18 World Junior Championship, scored 4 goals and 4 assists for 8 points in 6 games for the silver medalists. Over a point a game against the top talent in his age group in the world.
I apologize if I offended you by using the word disingenious, however in my mind any attempt to draw any comparison between the two just doesn't fit. They are as different as night and day.
I wasn't jumping all over you, I just find it impossible to believe anyone can predict the future. Nobody knows what the future holds for Zibanejad or how his hockey career will unfold. When it is over he might be in elite company, might not. It is then and only then that comparisons to the likes of Forsberg or Jagr have some value.
Of course it is possible the comparison people talk about is Daigle, or maybe even Foligno.
Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 09-16-2011 at 11:07 AM.
as for Regin's poor year last year.....
3 words, Cory ******* Clouston
"well how come regin was the only one who sucked out of 23 guys?"
I'm with you. Why in the hell did they not start the year with Regin-Spezz-Alfie? They should have and yet CC effed it all up and puts him on the 4th line. he lost that player and I think under MacLean he will rebound. He has too many tools and the mental aspect of hockey is huge. Guys like Gonchar, Foligno, Regin, Kuba and Lee will benefit the most from the new coaching staff.
I'm still trying to find a player that reminds of of Zibanejad, but I love the way he plays the game.
His two way game is pro caliber as he backchecks pretty hard. Very good on faceoffs, excellent skater and love his creativity. The guy has great playmaking ability. Excellent shot too.
Maybe Fisher but with an actual brain to play hockey. Peter Forsberg is a pretty good comparison too.
Im a bit late to the party, but I'll throw in my 2 cents:
-what impressed me most about Zibanejad was that he was a hound on the puck. To me, that speaks not only to his tenacity, but also his anticipation, which is a great attribute to have. It makes him seem faster than he really is (not that he's lacking in footspeed to begin with)
-He showed great vision, and in my mind, that's going to have to be his bread and butter if he ever develops into a top line scoring threat. He didn't overwhelm me with much in the way of scoring prowess, he doesn't have a lightning release, or incredible velocity on his shot. He's also not content to try and find open shooting lanes, his primary concern is to have the puck on his stick. Those skills are the hallmark of top flight goal scorers (30+). His willingness to drive the net, and above average shooting ability will make him a consistent 20-25 goal scorer IMO, but I don't see him having much goal scoring potential beyond that.
-At the moment I can't think of any glaring weaknesses to his game. I see his upside as being a ~25 goal, 70-80 point centre, who excels both on the cycle and in transition, and can play in any situation. He'll absolutely be a physical force, as he not only has a very large frame, but a willingness to use it. I'm gonna go against the grain here and suggest Ryan Getzlaf as a stylistic comparison of his upside.
Im a bit late to the party, but I'll throw in my 2 cents:
-what impressed me most about Zibanejad was that he was a hound on the puck. To me, that speaks not only to his tenacity, but also his anticipation, which is a great attribute to have. It makes him seem faster than he really is (not that he's lacking in footspeed to begin with)
-He showed great vision, and in my mind, that's going to have to be his bread and butter if he ever develops into a top line scoring threat. He didn't overwhelm me with much in the way of scoring prowess, he doesn't have a lightning release, or incredible velocity on his shot. He's also not content to try and find open shooting lanes, his primary concern is to have the puck on his stick. Those skills are the hallmark of top flight goal scorers (30+). His willingness to drive the net, and above average shooting ability will make him a consistent 20-25 goal scorer IMO, but I don't see him having much goal scoring potential beyond that.
-At the moment I can't think of any glaring weaknesses to his game. I see his upside as being a ~25 goal, 70-80 point centre, who excels both on the cycle and in transition, and can play in any situation. He'll absolutely be a physical force, as he not only has a very large frame, but a willingness to use it. I'm gonna go against the grain here and suggest Ryan Getzlaf as a stylistic comparison of his upside.
totally in agreement with this post, except for "Great vision" ... does he have a 20/20 eye sight?
Just kidding, I prefer to use the word awareness which imply vision without the puck as well.
You know, he will always do the right play at the right time. His plus/minus should be way up there.
Another person he kept reminding me of was a less physical Nathan Horton. Hopefully his offensive game develops a bit more then Horton but even if it doesn't, Horton was a huge part of the B's cup win and a pretty damn good player.
