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How much practice for 12-14 y/o?

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Old
09-13-2011, 06:19 AM
  #1
krax
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How much practice for 12-14 y/o?

How much practise is considered ok for 12 to 14 y/o at elite level?

Where I live, players hit the ice 6 times per week during 75 minutes + 1-2 games per week. Add 4-6 hours of off-ice training.

They started ice practices end of July and will carry on until April. Summer off-ice training begins in May, 4 times a week.

What do you see at your location?

k.

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09-14-2011, 12:53 PM
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Trojan35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krax View Post
How much practise is considered ok for 12 to 14 y/o at elite level?

Where I live, players hit the ice 6 times per week during 75 minutes + 1-2 games per week. Add 4-6 hours of off-ice training.

They started ice practices end of July and will carry on until April. Summer off-ice training begins in May, 4 times a week.

What do you see at your location?

k.
At 12-14... as much as the kid wants to practice. No more.

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09-14-2011, 02:16 PM
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krax
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At 12-14... as much as the kid wants to practice. No more.
Hm, I don't think it is as easy as this. Some kids always want to practice. But in the long run, this can be a disaster. They still grow, you can damage quite a lot of things and sometimes kill the hunger for hockey.

I asked, because I am worried about the quantity of practice I see here and would rather see less, putting the accent on quality.

So how much practice is imposed on 12-14y/o in your region?

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09-14-2011, 03:10 PM
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at 12-14, he is about to hit his growth spurt. put him on a decent strength regimen at the gym. 3-4 days a week, squat/deadlift/press. keep it simple, add 2-5 pounds of weight every workout, and make sure he gets enought protein.

in addition to that, if he gets out on the ice 2 times a week, and messes around stickhandling/shooting in the garage/basement a couple of times, he will be well ahead of most kids.

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09-14-2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
at 12-14, he is about to hit his growth spurt. put him on a decent strength regimen at the gym. 3-4 days a week, squat/deadlift/press. keep it simple, add 2-5 pounds of weight every workout, and make sure he gets enought protein.

in addition to that, if he gets out on the ice 2 times a week, and messes around stickhandling/shooting in the garage/basement a couple of times, he will be well ahead of most kids.
Isn't 12 years old a little young to be lifting weights? I was taught that 14 is probably the youngest you should get a kid lifting.... maybe 13 if he seems to be maturing at an early age. Of course, that doesn't mean the kid can't do bodyweight exercises or callisthenics.

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09-14-2011, 05:25 PM
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Isn't 12 years old a little young to be lifting weights? I was taught that 14 is probably the youngest you should get a kid lifting.... maybe 13 if he seems to be maturing at an early age. Of course, that doesn't mean the kid can't do bodyweight exercises or callisthenics.
no, all that stuff about growth plates has been largely debunked. there are numerous benefits to weightlifting, and especially doing so before and during a growth spurt.

http://stronglifts.com/does-weight-l...-stunt-growth/

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09-15-2011, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
at 12-14, he is about to hit his growth spurt. put him on a decent strength regimen at the gym. 3-4 days a week, squat/deadlift/press. keep it simple, add 2-5 pounds of weight every workout, and make sure he gets enought protein.

in addition to that, if he gets out on the ice 2 times a week, and messes around stickhandling/shooting in the garage/basement a couple of times, he will be well ahead of most kids.
He hits the ice 6 times a week + 1-2 games already. Add 4 hours of off-ice training in the gym. I was worried that this could be too much.

So what you say is, 2 times a week on the ice + 3-4 times a week in the gym for players at elite level?

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09-15-2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by krax View Post
He hits the ice 6 times a week + 1-2 games already. Add 4 hours of off-ice training in the gym. I was worried that this could be too much.

So what you say is, 2 times a week on the ice + 3-4 times a week in the gym for players at elite level?
i didn't actually mean better for elite level hockey players, but general elite level athletes. let me elaborate a bit.

for general athletic ability, kids need to gain strength. period. don't worry about body fat or height or top skating speed or point scoring or whatever else. at 12-14, everyone is a beginner, even if they have already hit the gym for a couple of years. "beginner" does not mean how much weight they can move, but in terms of linear strength gains in the posterior chain lifts (squats/deadlifts/cleans). While on a basic beginner lifting program they should be adding weight every workout and almost never stall, provided their technique is ok, they are getting a decent caloric surplus, what's going on during their recovery periods, and some other factors (most injury).

if you have a typical middle school/junior high athlete, elite level doesn't really mean very much in terms of strength. they do not need to get fancy specialized programming, and it will only slow down their gains anyway. hockey players are not different.

finally, let's make this specifically for hockey players. say you have a kid who has 6 organized practices + 1-2 games, and 4 hours at the gym per week. if he is doing what i described above at the gym, and still has the will to go on the ice two additional times and train on his own (perhaps an individual coach, or stick-n-puck, or whatever), more power to him. if not, but he still puts in decent work at the gym and keeps making strength gains, he will be fine. maybe he'll get more (or less) serious about hockey in a couple of years. that's really not that important. it's plenty of workload, and he should focus on doing the best he can during practice and at the gym, rather than squeezing in another hour or two of ice time per week.

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09-15-2011, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
at 12-14, he is about to hit his growth spurt. put him on a decent strength regimen at the gym. 3-4 days a week, squat/deadlift/press. keep it simple, add 2-5 pounds of weight every workout, and make sure he gets enought protein.

in addition to that, if he gets out on the ice 2 times a week, and messes around stickhandling/shooting in the garage/basement a couple of times, he will be well ahead of most kids.
You have it backwards. If he is on the ice 2x per week he will be about as far behind his peers as he can possibly be. My 8 year old skates 5-6x per week.

I think age 12 is still too young to do squat/deadlift type excercise. I would focus more on core strength and agility excercises.

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09-15-2011, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by krax View Post
He hits the ice 6 times a week + 1-2 games already. Add 4 hours of off-ice training in the gym. I was worried that this could be too much.

So what you say is, 2 times a week on the ice + 3-4 times a week in the gym for players at elite level?
Krax....IMO you should focus on what the practices are like and how you, as a parent, encourage him as a player.

Are the practices well done or is it done by an old school coach who has the kids standing in lines to do sprints? Or have they adopted new, station/skills type practices?

As a parent are you a guy who keeps encouraging through positivity? Do you see signs of burnout with your guy? There is a balance you have to acheive that goes between encouragement and gentle pushing and overbearing.

If your kid is having a good time, go with it. People get overly dramatic about the burnout factor because they know a kid who probably had a d-bag dad who went over the top and made the kid hate it. There is nothing wrong with desire and drive for a sport a person loves.

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09-15-2011, 10:28 PM
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time is running out fast for a 12 year old if he really wants to play in the show. I know I feel the pressure with a 10 year old. Jr Draft is at 15 and the scouts know who they are gunning for by age 13. There is just as much pressure if you are looking to get a scholarship to a good uni. you just get a bit more time to make it.

I believe that Ice, Ice, and more Ice then concentrate on stamina and reflexes from 12 to 13 then mid 13 start a 3 day a week weight training and focus on diet and adding as much weight (muscle mass) as possible.

that is just what I have learned from a guy named Bowler.

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09-15-2011, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
You have it backwards. If he is on the ice 2x per week he will be about as far behind his peers as he can possibly be. My 8 year old skates 5-6x per week.

I think age 12 is still too young to do squat/deadlift type excercise. I would focus more on core strength and agility excercises.
first bolded is not what i said.

re: second bolded -- what do you think squat/deadlifts develop?

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09-16-2011, 09:12 AM
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Bruwinz37,
Thanks for the input.
No, no worries with the coaching, also much support without pressure. No signs of burnout. He's an underager and he'll do anything the coach ask him for, highly motivated, always asking for more. He's having a hell of a good time.

My worries are more on the long term run. I do not see any medical adviser having a look at those kids. What about mental fatigue? Those kids still go to school. I have seen too many talents quit at age 15-17. Just because they had enough of it. I'd like to avoid that.

Basically, I just asked for a comparison. How does a weekly hockey program look like for a 12-14 y/o who plays at the highest possible level?


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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
Krax....IMO you should focus on what the practices are like and how you, as a parent, encourage him as a player.

Are the practices well done or is it done by an old school coach who has the kids standing in lines to do sprints? Or have they adopted new, station/skills type practices?

As a parent are you a guy who keeps encouraging through positivity? Do you see signs of burnout with your guy? There is a balance you have to acheive that goes between encouragement and gentle pushing and overbearing.

If your kid is having a good time, go with it. People get overly dramatic about the burnout factor because they know a kid who probably had a d-bag dad who went over the top and made the kid hate it. There is nothing wrong with desire and drive for a sport a person loves.


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09-16-2011, 10:01 AM
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I know there's a lot of possible points to discuss about how and how much kids should practice.
But I was just looking for comparisons:

How much ice time and off-ice time does a 12-14 y/o playing at the highest possible level get per week in your region?

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09-17-2011, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
first bolded is not what i said.

re: second bolded -- what do you think squat/deadlifts develop?
Yea, but you didnt answer the guy's question. Its like you passed a weekend personal trainer course and wanted to tell him about that. You absolutely DID suggest that he would be ahead of most kids if he was on the ice 2x per week but the OP clearly mentioned that he was in an elite level program. 2x per week is freakin' house league.

Re: squats and deadlifts...I probably worded my response wrong. I meant to say agility and core excercices. Squats and deadlifts at 12 arent as crucial.

At the end of the day any kid who has committed to an elite level program is going to need to commit at least 3 practices per week plus games. That is why it is important to choose the program based on their practices. Also, the kid has to have the right mindset and accept being pushed.

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09-17-2011, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by krax View Post
Bruwinz37,
Thanks for the input.
No, no worries with the coaching, also much support without pressure. No signs of burnout. He's an underager and he'll do anything the coach ask him for, highly motivated, always asking for more. He's having a hell of a good time.

My worries are more on the long term run. I do not see any medical adviser having a look at those kids. What about mental fatigue? Those kids still go to school. I have seen too many talents quit at age 15-17. Just because they had enough of it. I'd like to avoid that.

Basically, I just asked for a comparison. How does a weekly hockey program look like for a 12-14 y/o who plays at the highest possible level?
IMO if you are worried about the long term run you have to watch what he does in the summer. Dont camp him to death and jump at every tournament that comes your way. Let him be a kid, refresh and maybe do some skating as the season gets closer. During the season, however, you are going to want him skating what he does now if you want to keep him up at the elite level. Dont overdue it in the offseason. Just my opinion.

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09-17-2011, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
Yea, but you didnt answer the guy's question. Its like you passed a weekend personal trainer course and wanted to tell him about that. You absolutely DID suggest that he would be ahead of most kids if he was on the ice 2x per week but the OP clearly mentioned that he was in an elite level program. 2x per week is freakin' house league.

Re: squats and deadlifts...I probably worded my response wrong. I meant to say agility and core excercices. Squats and deadlifts at 12 arent as crucial.

At the end of the day any kid who has committed to an elite level program is going to need to commit at least 3 practices per week plus games. That is why it is important to choose the program based on their practices. Also, the kid has to have the right mindset and accept being pushed.
i obviously cannot tell this guy at what point his kid is going to burn out. he might burn out at 4 ice practices a week, or he might still be hooked on hockey doing 2-a-days without rest. in my personal opinion, let the kid decide how much ice time is too much.

BUT, i AM telling you that to be at elite levels in the sport (any sport), the kid will need more strength than your typical kid (not typical elite kid). the strength aspect will contribute to him being better at everything, skating, shooting, checking, explosiveness, endurance. once you get to high school age, you'll see that elite kids have much higher than average strength, and if they have enough talent, dedication, and results, they will get looks from higher level programs. sure, there will be rare exceptions to the rule, where a genetic freak will dominate without pushing a lot of weight in the gym, but it's more rare than you think.

12-14 is the perfect growth spurt age for a lot of kids who show early promise. use it to their advantage. get their muscle mass/squat/deadlift numbers up to respectable/advanced/elite levels, and it will become apparent that it was a wise investment of time. it will not make them woefully behind, but on the contrary it will make them stronger, more athletic players, less prone to injury.

considering that weightlifting is only 3-4 days a week for 1-1.5 hours, can be done in the comfort of your own home/garage/basement, and provided enough calories at that age will not affect the recovery time until they approach some pretty advanced limits, it's really a no brainer.


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09-18-2011, 09:00 AM
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i obviously cannot tell this guy at what point his kid is going to burn out. he might burn out at 4 ice practices a week, or he might still be hooked on hockey doing 2-a-days without rest. in my personal opinion, let the kid decide how much ice time is too much.

BUT, i AM telling you that to be at elite levels in the sport (any sport), the kid will need more strength than your typical kid (not typical elite kid). the strength aspect will contribute to him being better at everything, skating, shooting, checking, explosiveness, endurance. once you get to high school age, you'll see that elite kids have much higher than average strength, and if they have enough talent, dedication, and results, they will get looks from higher level programs. sure, there will be rare exceptions to the rule, where a genetic freak will dominate without pushing a lot of weight in the gym, but it's more rare than you think.

12-14 is the perfect growth spurt age for a lot of kids who show early promise. use it to their advantage. get their muscle mass/squat/deadlift numbers up to respectable/advanced/elite levels, and it will become apparent that it was a wise investment of time. it will not make them woefully behind, but on the contrary it will make them stronger, more athletic players, less prone to injury.

considering that weightlifting is only 3-4 days a week for 1-1.5 hours, can be done in the comfort of your own home/garage/basement, and provided enough calories at that age will not affect the recovery time until they approach some pretty advanced limits, it's really a no brainer.
I dont disagree with any of this but he wasnt really asking about weights. He was asking about how much ice time/practice is the norm...and what is considered too much.

You essentially told him that weight lifting and 2x per week would keep him ahead of most kids. That is nonsense.

I would say that at age 14 weights are a must for sure. At age 12-13 I would say that plyometrics and agility should be the key.

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09-18-2011, 01:34 PM
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I dont disagree with any of this but he wasnt really asking about weights. He was asking about how much ice time/practice is the norm...and what is considered too much.

You essentially told him that weight lifting and 2x per week would keep him ahead of most kids. That is nonsense.

I would say that at age 14 weights are a must for sure. At age 12-13 I would say that plyometrics and agility should be the key.
i did say 'most kids' not 'elite kids'. and although i don't work with elite kids, i still stand by it. if 'elite' in his area means an X number of hours on the ice then that's what his kid will have to do.

what's nonsense is the answer to these types of questions is almost always more practice, more advanced skills and progressions and assistance exercises like plyo, because everyone thinks that the answer is almost always something hockey-specific. in fact, basic general strength gives you a lot more in return than other programming. in large groups of kids of almost any sport (and most people in general), the limiting factor is almost always strength and GPP.

the problem is that agility and plyometrics are relatively advanced assistance exercises. if he likes them, go ahead and do them. but it won't build significant muscle mass or strength.

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09-18-2011, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
i did say 'most kids' not 'elite kids'. and although i don't work with elite kids, i still stand by it. if 'elite' in his area means an X number of hours on the ice then that's what his kid will have to do.

what's nonsense is the answer to these types of questions is almost always more practice, more advanced skills and progressions and assistance exercises like plyo, because everyone thinks that the answer is almost always something hockey-specific. in fact, basic general strength gives you a lot more in return than other programming. in large groups of kids of almost any sport (and most people in general), the limiting factor is almost always strength and GPP.

the problem is that agility and plyometrics are relatively advanced assistance exercises. if he likes them, go ahead and do them. but it won't build significant muscle mass or strength.
We are going around in circles. The question he specifically stated was about elite level play. Why would you give an answer about "most kids"? What does that offer?

Plyo and agility excercises can range from basic to complex and everything in between.

You can feel free to reply but this is my last post in this mind numbing conversation.

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09-19-2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
We are going around in circles. The question he specifically stated was about elite level play. Why would you give an answer about "most kids"? What does that offer?

Plyo and agility excercises can range from basic to complex and everything in between.

You can feel free to reply but this is my last post in this mind numbing conversation.
don't feel frustrated on my account.

elite hockey kids at that age all skate a ton and do little in the gym. on the ice, they are elite. in the gym, they are little more than "most kids". it seems to me that he has a choice of adding more skating practice in hopes of getting diminishingly better skating, or spend that time gaining muscle mass at novice rates, which is huge.

you haven't explained why you think 12 is too young for squats. if at 14 they are a must, why not give him an edge by starting earlier than everyone else?

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09-20-2011, 12:21 AM
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elite hockey kids at that age all skate a ton and do little in the gym. on the ice, they are elite. in the gym, they are little more than "most kids". it seems to me that he has a choice of adding more skating practice in hopes of getting diminishingly better skating, or spend that time gaining muscle mass at novice rates, which is huge.
This is a valid point and one of the reasons I asked. Instead of having 6 sessions on the ice, I'd rather see them having 4-5, replacing one session with working on their core strength, balance etc.

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09-20-2011, 06:57 PM
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This is a valid point and one of the reasons I asked. Instead of having 6 sessions on the ice, I'd rather see them having 4-5, replacing one session with working on their core strength, balance etc.
I would think most programs (if you are looking for a comparison) do off ice for Elite players.

They are introducing it at the Mite Major level where my son plays. I am interested in seeing what types of excercises they have them doing at age 8, but I think like you said...core, balance, agility.

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09-26-2011, 04:39 PM
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My son is 10 (11 in early January) and is in Grade 6 (a year ahead academically to his peer group and hence all the kids he plays against). The school he attends offers a Hockey Canada Skills Academy. He is on the ice 3 times a week for 1.5 hours and in the gym (core and endurance - not lifting) 2 times a week. This schedule rotates every week, ie. the following week 3 times at the gym, and 2 ice sessions. This is in addition to his 2 x 1 hour practices and 1 to 2 games per weekend.

He says he enjoys it now, i'm also curious how much fun it will be when April/May rolls around.

Of course this is in addition to Spring Hockey and summer camps. I keep telling him to slow down but he says he can't get enough and doesn't refuse ice??? Crazy kid!!!

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09-26-2011, 10:18 PM
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I know for my highschool we start in June for summer training. We probably skate 3-4 times a week, while lifting/dryland 3-4 times a week as well. That goes till around Late July and then their is a bit of a break. Captains starts basically mid august and we skate twice a week, while lifting 3 times a week.

Practices are generally 1.25 hours to 1.5 hours. Sometimes 2 hours. Than another 1-2 hours for dryland/lifting.

Once, the season actually starts we practice 5 times a week not including any games. (We practice everyday after school.)


To me, this seems like plenty. Although, I wish we were skating a bit more (Probably 3x a week instead of 2) although it's not really a big deal.

I live in Minnesota so we generally have a lot more available ice time than other areas. During the season we probably skate anywhere from 5-7 and sometimes more times a week. Which is fantastic, but you do get burnt our for period during the summer and near the end of the season.


Your kids doing plenty.

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