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Rangers Training Camp Discussion (9/30: Sauer returns to practice; Kolarik tears ACL)

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Old
09-17-2011, 04:02 PM
  #126
Crease
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Contract year for Wolski and Avery. They know whats up.

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09-17-2011, 04:12 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
How is that possible? All he does is party and fight cops! He forgot he's a hockey player, I thought.
Avery has always been in great shape. Last year he had the best time on their run.

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09-17-2011, 04:42 PM
  #128
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Why no sticky?

Anyways, I remember reading the exact same things about MDZ last training camp and he played bad. So, when he starts playing good hockey again, I'll believe he has turned the corner. Just because he looks really big now doesn't mean he can play hockey any better than last year.
especially since the wear and tear surely has the player burning muscle over the season.

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09-17-2011, 06:57 PM
  #129
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I still think Dubinsky makes more sense than Wolski on that 1st line, and remain skeptical that Wolski is going to be willing to put in the effort to fix his talented but flawed game.

That being said, nothing would make me happier than being wrong about him. If he can get back on track as a legitimate top 6 offensive weapon and up his compete level, this team will be in phenomenal shape.

Quote:
NYDNRangers Jesse Spector
Wolski opened my eyes. RT @absolutsuedois: Which players shone (and which did not) during the conditioning tests?
Wolski's issue never seemed to be conditioning to me -- it was willingness to compete -- battling for lose pucks, playing to the whistle, etc. Here's to hoping to his improved conditioning is a reflection of a new attitude toward competing harder on the ice.

He literally has millions of reasons to put in the effort, because he's at a crossroads in his career. If he plays like he did last year, he very well may end up like Zherdev, with a short term contract around ~$1m. However, if he gets back on track, he very well could also remain in the $4m salary range that he currently sits.

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09-17-2011, 07:36 PM
  #130
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Regardless of Wolski completely turning it around...

Dubinsky still infinitely makes more sense with Richards and Gaborik.

Wolski would benefit a lot more from two guys like Anisimov and Callahan who can get him the puck and cover for his mistakes.

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09-17-2011, 07:38 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Regardless of Wolski completely turning it around...

Dubinsky still infinitely makes more sense with Richards and Gaborik.

Wolski would benefit a lot more from two guys like Anisimov and Callahan who can get him the puck and cover for his mistakes.
Couldn't agree more, but it seems like Wolski's going to get the first chance on that line. Hopefully he thrives, we win 98 games in a row, and Dubinsky never even gets a chance to play with Richards + Gaborik.

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09-17-2011, 09:40 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Regardless of Wolski completely turning it around...

Dubinsky still infinitely makes more sense with Richards and Gaborik.

Wolski would benefit a lot more from two guys like Anisimov and Callahan who can get him the puck and cover for his mistakes.
Id rather see Dubi stay with ani and cali. If Wolski can even half click with Richards and Gaborik we will have 2 serious scoring lines!

Getting the chance to play with Richards and Gabby as line mates should be motivation enough for Wolski.

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09-17-2011, 09:46 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
How is that possible? All he does is party and fight cops! He forgot he's a hockey player, I thought.
It didn't help him last season...maybe playing for a contract will, though.

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09-17-2011, 09:51 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
We are not into a history lesson here, we are only interested in "what have you done for us lately?"
I get what you are saying, but the puck hasn't been dropped for the first scrimmage game and it seems you have your mind made up.

I assume you have the same mindset for every player and not just Gaborik?

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09-17-2011, 10:03 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by 92hatchattack View Post
Id rather see Dubi stay with ani and cali. If Wolski can even half click with Richards and Gaborik we will have 2 serious scoring lines!

Getting the chance to play with Richards and Gabby as line mates should be motivation enough for Wolski.
I feel the opposite.

I feel if Wolski has turned it around, him being with Anisimov and Callahan turns that line into a complete scoring line. And Dubinsky adds the needed catalyst and physical presence that Richards and Gaborik will need.

Wolski is a "finesse" kind of player, and at the top of his game, is a goal scorer. He would benefit from having a playmaking and defensively responsible center, Anisimov, and a catalyst and physical player like Callahan.

Balance the lines. Avoid creating one-dimensional trios.

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Wolski-Anisimov-Callahan

And when the opposition is locking things down...

Dubinsky-Anisimov-Gaborik
Wolski-Richards-Callahan

...split up Richards and Gaborik to create mis-matches.

Im sure Tortorella will juggle things often enough, anyway.

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09-17-2011, 10:10 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I feel the opposite.

I feel if Wolski has turned it around, him being with Anisimov and Callahan turns that line into a complete scoring line. And Dubinsky adds the needed catalyst and physical presence that Richards and Gaborik will need.

Wolski is a "finesse" kind of player, and at the top of his game, is a goal scorer. He would benefit from having a playmaking and defensively responsible center, Anisimov, and a catalyst and physical player like Callahan.

Balance the lines. Avoid creating one-dimensional trios.

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Wolski-Anisimov-Callahan

And when the opposition is locking things down...

Dubinsky-Anisimov-Gaborik
Wolski-Richards-Callahan

...split up Richards and Gaborik to create mis-matches.

Im sure Tortorella will juggle things often enough, anyway.
I thought we signed BR for Gaborik and now were splitting them up because why? W2-AA-Callahan is still a very strong line that will be a threat and produce.

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09-17-2011, 10:19 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Regardless of Wolski completely turning it around...

Dubinsky still infinitely makes more sense with Richards and Gaborik.

Wolski would benefit a lot more from two guys like Anisimov and Callahan who can get him the puck and cover for his mistakes.
It doesn't make sense in the context that it puts all of our high end scoring depth on the same line, and makes us easier to match up against, especially on road games... The Dubi-AA-Callahan line had undeniable chemistry together and carried the team for a good chunk of last season... If you have 2 dynamic players like Gaborik & Richards on the first line, you don't break up a solid 2nd scoring line that has good chemistry together, you should explore all other options first, like Wolski, Avery, Feds.... Additionally, Gaborik & Richards will draw the other team's top pairing D match-ups, which gives that young 2nd line more favorable match-ups than they were used to seeing last season, so that's another plus... That gives us 2 solid scoring lines and we know what kind of contributions we can get from our bottom 6 forwards on the other lines, that should put us in much better shape than we've been in, in the past. We've never consistently had 2 reliable scoring lines at any time since the lockout... I believe Torts is going to make an effort not to break up that line and try other options first...

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09-17-2011, 10:31 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I thought we signed BR for Gaborik and now were splitting them up because why? W2-AA-Callahan is still a very strong line that will be a threat and produce.
Did you read the whole post?

Matchups. When opposing coaches concentrate on shutting the pair down, and if they're successful, a smart coach would split that pair up to create mis-matches and get the offense going.

Did I suggest splitting them up for no apparent reason?

Please read more thoroughly.

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09-17-2011, 10:42 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Did you read the whole post?

Matchups. When opposing coaches concentrate on shutting the pair down, and if they're successful, a smart coach would split that pair up to create mis-matches and get the offense going.

Did I suggest splitting them up for no apparent reason?

Please read more thoroughly.
listen SM, i respect your opinion your a longtime poster and you usually have great input. I was being, in a sense, sarcastic when i said 'because why?' Reason being is because I'm not worried about matchups. If they do indeed get shut down occasionally, we have a pretty formidable second line backed by a solid 3rd line that can produce as well. Opposing teams top checking lines cant be on the ice at all times. They cant play against the #1 line and the #2 line, I mean they could but that would be ridiculous. I think they will be fine with gaborik and BR on the same line.

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09-17-2011, 10:50 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I feel the opposite.

I feel if Wolski has turned it around, him being with Anisimov and Callahan turns that line into a complete scoring line. And Dubinsky adds the needed catalyst and physical presence that Richards and Gaborik will need.

Wolski is a "finesse" kind of player, and at the top of his game, is a goal scorer. He would benefit from having a playmaking and defensively responsible center, Anisimov, and a catalyst and physical player like Callahan.

Balance the lines. Avoid creating one-dimensional trios.

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Wolski-Anisimov-Callahan

And when the opposition is locking things down...

Dubinsky-Anisimov-Gaborik
Wolski-Richards-Callahan

...split up Richards and Gaborik to create mis-matches.

Im sure Tortorella will juggle things often enough, anyway.
Completely agree.

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09-17-2011, 10:52 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Regardless of Wolski completely turning it around...

Dubinsky still infinitely makes more sense with Richards and Gaborik.

Wolski would benefit a lot more from two guys like Anisimov and Callahan who can get him the puck and cover for his mistakes.
Exactly. Wolski is never going to be that "primary" scorer, IMO -- he does, however, make a great complimentary scorer. Putting him with Callahan and Stepan/Anisimov will help mask his deficiencies, and bring out the best in his game.

However...I still wouldn't be comfortable with Wolski going into the playoffs, even if he does have a 60 point season. He's not a player built for post season play, really.

Honestly, I think a top-6 of:

Dubinsky-Richards-Gaborik
Avery/Fedotenko-Anisimov/Stepan-Callahan

Could do damage in tight checking games.

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Old
09-17-2011, 11:01 PM
  #142
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A number of players have come into camp with something significant to prove. I like that a lot. Can't wait to see what happens w/Wolski, MDZ, Cally, Richards, Avery, etc.

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09-17-2011, 11:02 PM
  #143
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It doesn't make sense in the context that it puts all of our high end scoring depth on the same line, and makes us easier to match up against, especially on road games... The Dubi-AA-Callahan line had undeniable chemistry together and carried the team for a good chunk of last season... If you have 2 dynamic players like Gaborik & Richards on the first line, you don't break up a solid 2nd scoring line that has good chemistry together, you should explore all other options first, like Wolski, Avery, Feds.... Additionally, Gaborik & Richards will draw the other team's top pairing D match-ups, which gives that young 2nd line more favorable match-ups than they were used to seeing last season, so that's another plus... That gives us 2 solid scoring lines and we know what kind of contributions we can get from our bottom 6 forwards on the other lines, that should put us in much better shape than we've been in, in the past. We've never consistently had 2 reliable scoring lines at any time since the lockout... I believe Torts is going to make an effort not to break up that line and try other options first...
I don't value the chemistry that Dubsinsky-Anisimov-Callahan had, over the high priced pair we got for the top line. The number one priority is to have that pair as effective as possible. Wolski can't be relied on to dig for the puck, go hard to the net, control the puck on the boards, or create space for his linemates with his physical play and puck possession. Richards and Gaborik are as finesse as it is. Adding more un-physical finesse makes no sense.

Dubinsky is the player they need, he's the one who could get done what needs to get done so Richards and Gaborik can play their game.

And like Richards and Gaborik, Wolski needs someone to create space for him, needs someone to get him the puck, needs someone to dig for the puck, control it on the boards. Callahan and Anisimov are those guys.

Its my opinion that you can't create one-dimensional lineups. That's more predictive, that's easier to plan against.

Its simple, throw your top physical and defensive players out against Wolski-Richards-Gaborik and that line is in check, and deploy your top offensive players against Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan and suddenly their main focus is on the defensive side. Two lines in check.

Dubinsky can match up with and neutralize the opposing physical players and create space for Richards and Gaborik with his strong board play and ability to hold onto the puck under duress.

Anisimov and Callahan would be able to neutralize opposing offensive players and have a skilled scorer they can use when they force the other team to make a mistake.

I don't see Wolski, a one dimensional offensive player, and not really physical, as the best option for two already mostly offensive and not overly physical players. You need balance.

That said, its obvious several guys will be tried out there. Wolski will get his shot. Ultimately, I feel the best option is Dubinsky.

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09-17-2011, 11:06 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
listen SM, i respect your opinion your a longtime poster and you usually have great input. I was being, in a sense, sarcastic when i said 'because why?' Reason being is because I'm not worried about matchups. If they do indeed get shut down occasionally, we have a pretty formidable second line backed by a solid 3rd line that can produce as well. Opposing teams top checking lines cant be on the ice at all times. They cant play against the #1 line and the #2 line, I mean they could but that would be ridiculous. I think they will be fine with gaborik and BR on the same line.
I respect you as well.

I agree, I don't think they'll need to be split up often. Rarely.

And we have solid depth through our lineup to (hopefully) cover for opposing coaches matchups when/if they're successful.

I was just mentioning it could happen.

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09-17-2011, 11:11 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
A number of players have come into camp with something significant to prove. I like that a lot. Can't wait to see what happens w/Wolski, MDZ, Cally, Richards, Avery, etc.
I agree, its exciting to have a close knit group with a chip on their shoulders.

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09-17-2011, 11:13 PM
  #146
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It doesn't make sense in the context that it puts all of our high end scoring depth on the same line, and makes us easier to match up against, especially on road games... The Dubi-AA-Callahan line had undeniable chemistry together and carried the team for a good chunk of last season... If you have 2 dynamic players like Gaborik & Richards on the first line, you don't break up a solid 2nd scoring line that has good chemistry together, you should explore all other options first, like Wolski, Avery, Feds.... Additionally, Gaborik & Richards will draw the other team's top pairing D match-ups, which gives that young 2nd line more favorable match-ups than they were used to seeing last season, so that's another plus... That gives us 2 solid scoring lines and we know what kind of contributions we can get from our bottom 6 forwards on the other lines, that should put us in much better shape than we've been in, in the past. We've never consistently had 2 reliable scoring lines at any time since the lockout... I believe Torts is going to make an effort not to break up that line and try other options first...
Btw im enjoying the way we are all conversating/debating here. No one is attacking anyone for a change lol.

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09-17-2011, 11:25 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I respect you as well.

I agree, I don't think they'll need to be split up often. Rarely.

And we have solid depth through our lineup to (hopefully) cover for opposing coaches matchups when/if they're successful.

I was just mentioning it could happen.
you know what your prob right just based off of how much torts shuffles lines. how much we will see it happen idk but its a good problem/predicament to have

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09-18-2011, 12:29 AM
  #148
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SM I've been saying this and couldn't agree more. The answer to that top line is Dubi...no Wolski, Avery, Feds or even Boyle...it's just Dubi.

As you said, you need balanced lines. Wolski/BR/Gabby just really isn't physical enough...they all play a similar game...while BR and Gabby obviously are complimentary players, they're gonna need someone to go get the puck, someone for the board work, somebody to worry about playing good D in the rare instance theyre in their own zone...this isn't a diss on Gabby or BR i think both are at least average defensively and you dont win a cup by being bad defensively at center(in Richards' case).

But Dubi is the perfect guy for that role. Let's face it, Gabby isn't great at board work, and in a perfect world (the right linemates)he doesn't have to be. Richards can certainly pkay against the boards and so can Dubi...leaving Gabby to get open...that's really going to be a magical line. Gabby's never had that before and if he's getting open while everyone's focusing on the other 2 it's going to help his game.

Wolski really is a perimeter player and one who is more of a playmaker type...I agree with you SM that he's perfect for that second line. Stepan or Anisimov will easy score 20-25 goals with him and Cally, plus Cally can go get the puck and should score 30 with Wolski's passing ability.

Then line 3 really is that Boyle/Rupp/Prust line, with the last line being secondary scoring in Stepan or Anisimov with Feds and whoever makes it. But those 2 lines really serve different purposes...the Rupp line is forchecking/grinding while the other line could be more offensive oriented with Stepan or more defensively oriented with Anisimov. Either way we're in good shape.

So yea I hope you don't mind me adding on to your points just wanted to lend some support to it.

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09-18-2011, 01:00 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I don't value the chemistry that Dubsinsky-Anisimov-Callahan had, over the high priced pair we got for the top line. The number one priority is to have that pair as effective as possible. Wolski can't be relied on to dig for the puck, go hard to the net, control the puck on the boards, or create space for his linemates with his physical play and puck possession. Richards and Gaborik are as finesse as it is. Adding more un-physical finesse makes no sense.

Dubinsky is the player they need, he's the one who could get done what needs to get done so Richards and Gaborik can play their game.

And like Richards and Gaborik, Wolski needs someone to create space for him, needs someone to get him the puck, needs someone to dig for the puck, control it on the boards. Callahan and Anisimov are those guys.

Its my opinion that you can't create one-dimensional lineups. That's more predictive, that's easier to plan against.

Its simple, throw your top physical and defensive players out against Wolski-Richards-Gaborik and that line is in check, and deploy your top offensive players against Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan and suddenly their main focus is on the defensive side. Two lines in check.

Dubinsky can match up with and neutralize the opposing physical players and create space for Richards and Gaborik with his strong board play and ability to hold onto the puck under duress.

Anisimov and Callahan would be able to neutralize opposing offensive players and have a skilled scorer they can use when they force the other team to make a mistake.

I don't see Wolski, a one dimensional offensive player, and not really physical, as the best option for two already mostly offensive and not overly physical players. You need balance.

That said, its obvious several guys will be tried out there. Wolski will get his shot. Ultimately, I feel the best option is Dubinsky.
Rangers too easy to match up against if you put all your eggs in one basket.... AA & Callahan and another forward won't be nearly as effective without Dubinsky's strong boardwork and play down low.... They won't be as much of a threat.... 3rd line with Stepan and other available forwards won't be very dangerous either... It makes us way too one dimensional up front in terms of a having reliable scoring lines....

Dubinsky makes sense there on paper, but not in the context of the Rangers current depth, which is void of top 6 forwards....

Fedotenko might be a nice fit on that 1st line... While he isn't a noted finisher, he is a moose along the boards and is very reliable defensively.... Him and Richards have been linemates before...

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09-18-2011, 03:32 AM
  #150
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Is it just me, or is this year's TC coverage on the NY Rangers official website really thin and lifeless? Quite dissapointing...

Anyone one find the scrimmage teams yet? Cheers.

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