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Good Alexander Avtsin article on Canadiens.com

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Old
09-18-2011, 11:41 AM
  #51
Gustave
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Gagnon's character assassination on Avtsin continues from his twitter. Now it's not his speed that is lacking, it's his heart.

Exact quote in french: "J'en doute beaucoup. le talent est là, mais il manque de coeur RT @malemieux1980: @GagnonFrancois avstin serais tu prêt pour la LNH?"

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09-18-2011, 11:49 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Gagnon's character assassination on Avtsin continues from his twitter. Now it's not his speed that is lacking, it's his heart.

Exact quote in french: "J'en doute beaucoup. le talent est là, mais il manque de coeur RT @malemieux1980: s@GagnonFrancois avstin serais tu prêt pour la LNH?"
Im just curious..what does gagnon know about avstin?..

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09-18-2011, 11:54 AM
  #53
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Im just curious..what does gagnon know about avstin?..
That's what I'm wondering. I don't want to imply it, but at the same time I feel like it's because he's.... russian. Shocking I know. Maybe I'm way off but I don't like comments that seem gratuitous.

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09-18-2011, 12:00 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Im just curious..what does gagnon know about avstin?..
Well he probably know that Avtsin is russian, so accusing him lack of heart is a safe bet.

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09-18-2011, 12:11 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
That's what I'm wondering. I don't want to imply it, but at the same time I feel like it's because he's.... russian. Shocking I know. Maybe I'm way off but I don't like comments that seem gratuitous.
Why is that? Gagnon is there looking at him play. I'd say is in a better position to comment about him than we are.

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09-18-2011, 12:18 PM
  #56
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I was also at camp yesterday, and I disagree with Gagnon's comment. So I called him out on it via twitter. Avtsin was playing his game, maybe he just needs to learn how to use his teammates better. That's all. However, that doesn't mean he's lacking heart.

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09-18-2011, 12:29 PM
  #57
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It seems to be me like no one ever accuses North American players of "lacking heart". When Palushaj was a disappointment at rookie camp, nobody brought up his heart.

The fact that Avtsin was willing to leave home as a teenager and come to a place like Hamilton where he knew nobody, didn't speak the languange, and didn't have a single teammate who spoke his language says plenty to me about his dedication.

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09-18-2011, 12:30 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Why is that? Gagnon is there looking at him play. I'd say is in a better position to comment about him than we are.
yah right, pretty sure he's seeing his heart while he's scrimmaging

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09-18-2011, 12:33 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Game View Post
I was also at camp yesterday, and I disagree with Gagnon's comment. So I called him out on it via twitter. Avtsin was playing his game, maybe he just needs to learn how to use his teammates better. That's all. However, that doesn't mean he's lacking heart.
People from the media, since they have a larger group of listener, should always keep in mind that they have great influence on how they can manipulate our perception of the fact about a player because its human nature to come up with our own interpretation if none is provided.

For this reason they should provide a least a valid explanation for why he feel "he lack of heart" just like you did. This way people would not attach a negative emotion to him because of the comment "he lack of heart".

Innocence is futile.

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09-18-2011, 12:34 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Why is that? Gagnon is there looking at him play. I'd say is in a better position to comment about him than we are.
Because Gagnon is a meathead much like most Quebecois reporters out here. If Avs' name was Tremblay or Lavoie, he'd commend his talent and say he's a surefire 2nd liner at least and has a bright future with le tricolore.

And don't even try the "you're Anglo-biased" bull. I'm both.

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Old
09-18-2011, 01:26 PM
  #61
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I'm pretty sure Gagnon meant Avstin lacked drive but he only has 140 characters or less to relay his opinion. But I guess you guys never used a wrong word to describe something when on the spot.

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09-18-2011, 01:49 PM
  #62
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I'm pretty sure Gagnon meant Avstin lacked drive but he only has 140 characters or less to relay his opinion. But I guess you guys never used a wrong word to describe something when on the spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
Exact quote in french: "J'en doute beaucoup. le talent est là, mais il manque de coeur RT @malemieux1980: @GagnonFrancois avstin serais tu prêt pour la LNH?"
I don't know what your French is like, but what he says cannot be misinterpreted. It's clear and he's way off. He's a puck hog and has little defence, but he plays hard.

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09-18-2011, 02:20 PM
  #63
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I don't know what your French is like, but what he says cannot be misinterpreted. It's clear and he's way off. He's a puck hog and has little defence, but he plays hard.
I know he said that yesterday, but when somebody tweeted him today to stop the Avstin bashing (probably somebody here) he said he had the talent but "manque d'intensité". The same was said about Kovalev, how he had all the talent in the world but had "no heart". I'm sure Kovalev cared a lot but he showed lack of drive or intensity from time to time. The problem is in french "no heart" is wrongly used as a synonym for lack of intensity. C'est tout.

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Old
09-18-2011, 02:26 PM
  #64
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We're talking about a 4th round pick here. If he becomes a 20-30-50 player in the NHL. That's a ****ing steal.
Who cares where he was drafted?

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09-18-2011, 03:04 PM
  #65
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Who cares where he was drafted?
You dont judge the success of a 4th round pick the same way you judge the success of a 1st round pick.

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09-18-2011, 03:10 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I wouldn't say he lost a year of development, but if he was going to cross the pond, he should've played in the QMJHL.
Why should a pro hockey player step down to juniors? He played one full season as pro in Russia, junior hockey for him would be a step backwards

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You dont judge the success of a 4th round pick the same way you judge the success of a 1st round pick.
It depends from the point of view. As I am not a Montreal Canadiens fan, but a Russia fan, I judge Avtsin as what he was: one of the best players of his year of age, and other players - less talented than Avtsin - are surpassing him. Hopefully this year he will rebound back.

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Old
09-18-2011, 04:34 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Why should a pro hockey player step down to juniors? He played one full season as pro in Russia, junior hockey for him would be a step backwards



It depends from the point of view. As I am not a Montreal Canadiens fan, but a Russia fan, I judge Avtsin as what he was: one of the best players of his year of age, and other players - less talented than Avtsin - are surpassing him. Hopefully this year he will rebound back.
At the same time though it's to be expected playing at a higher level with a nagging injury or at least a different level depending on where he would have been. AHL isn't easy to adapt to over night for a lot of euros and doing it with an injury certainly can't help.

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09-18-2011, 06:12 PM
  #68
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Why should a pro hockey player step down to juniors? He played one full season as pro in Russia, junior hockey for him would be a step backwards
Maybe because he couldn't produce at the pro level. Players that can't produce (Pacioretty) get sent back down a level to the AHL and it helps their game by going down a level.

Avtsin couldn't produce in the KHL against men. There is no doubt he has the skill but I think he would have adjusted a lot better to the North American game playing against Jrs. He's never dominated on North American ice with North American rules, with him having a thin frame and struggling in the KHL to produce, I think playing a year in NA in Jr would have helped his confidence and adjustment level.

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09-19-2011, 04:43 AM
  #69
Alessandro Seren Rosso
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Struggling to produce? He was playing on the fourth line! And even while playing on the fourth line for probably less than 10 minutes a night he managed to score about 0.33 pts/game, I'd hardly call this "couldn't produce".

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09-19-2011, 08:17 AM
  #70
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Struggling to produce? He was playing on the fourth line! And even while playing on the fourth line for probably less than 10 minutes a night he managed to score about 0.33 pts/game, I'd hardly call this "couldn't produce".
This. Just because because he only got 9 points in 30 games doesn't mean he wasn't producing, if anything it means he was doing pretty good until he got injured. And he was just called from the junior team and was still learning how to play against men.

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09-19-2011, 08:47 AM
  #71
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Great short article.
Can't wait tosee him in the show.
I first read this as "can't wait to see him in the shower."

I am among those who think that attitude doesn't matter one bit. It's all about how fast your body can move.

It's quite simply about what your muscles, tendons and other fibers can do.

I know this encourages the idea that our hockey heroes are just pieces of meat... perhaps it's not 100% the case, but on the other hand, all this talk about heart and desire and determination seems a little overdone in these discussion forums.

I also think a ton of players have been training like crazy all summer and been enjoying additional 'supplements' in order to do that more effectively.


Last edited by Megaforce: 09-19-2011 at 08:56 AM. Reason: (wanted to imply that athletes are just pieces of meat on steroids)
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Old
09-19-2011, 09:56 AM
  #72
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It seems to be me like no one ever accuses North American players of "lacking heart". When Palushaj was a disappointment at rookie camp, nobody brought up his heart.

The fact that Avtsin was willing to leave home as a teenager and come to a place like Hamilton where he knew nobody, didn't speak the languange, and didn't have a single teammate who spoke his language says plenty to me about his dedication.
This. I'm tired of these hags making stupid comments like this founded on bias against Euros. It's sad and pathetic that in this day in age people still do this.

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Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Struggling to produce? He was playing on the fourth line! And even while playing on the fourth line for probably less than 10 minutes a night he managed to score about 0.33 pts/game, I'd hardly call this "couldn't produce".
On top of playing with a nagging injury... on top of adapting to a smaller ice surface... on top of being very young for the AHL.

This is why I think people calling him a bust or saying he lacks heart are extremely premature.

In NHL 12 I did a rebuild just for fun in GM mode even though we're in win now. Low and behold the guy who has impressed the most and developed the most by the start of my 2013-14 season is Avtsin already being a huge part of my 2nd lines success! Now obviously this is just a video game but premonition?

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09-19-2011, 08:34 PM
  #73
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Hey Alessandro,

Can you tell me where Avtsin would rank with other Russian prospects in the NHL and can you give me a good comparable as I wasn't really sure who to compare him to? Also can you tell me which Russian/ Euro that is worth a look in the upcoming draft that the Habs could draft (besides Yakupov, Galchenyuk, and Grigerenko)?

Thanks


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Old
09-19-2011, 09:41 PM
  #74
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Not too crazy about this guy, and i feel he gets alot more love then he should be

if he pans out , GREAT, if he doesnt, i wont lose sleep over it

im more interrested in kristo and ghallager atm.

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09-19-2011, 10:47 PM
  #75
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Not too crazy about this guy, and i feel he gets alot more love then he should be

if he pans out , GREAT, if he doesnt, i wont lose sleep over it.

im more interrested in kristo and ghallager atm.
Well, he is a sleeper so we don't know wheter he pans out or not, but right now it doesn't matter what others think. All we can do now is check up on his development and compare to other NHLers and talk about his potential. It will only matter when we know where his path has gone.

I understand your thinking, and respect it but I disagree with as I think he has good potential to surprise and do well in the NHL in a few years. You're entitled to your opinion, like I have my own. Neither of us are right or wrong.

Same here, if he doesn't pan out, we still have Kristo and Gallagher to develop, and if he does in fact do well, all the better as we will have great depth on the RW.

And since Gallagher impressed at the training camp and Avtsin and Kristo can only do better than their last respective years, we are on the right path.


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