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EDM-WSH-STL blockbuster

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Old
09-18-2011, 05:51 PM
  #176
bleedblue1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
The same can be said for Carlson.
Which is why we have never criticized him on here. We haven't watched him play a lot and the things we have read have probably only been good things.

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Old
09-18-2011, 05:53 PM
  #177
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Stats While Pietrangelo is on the ice:

Goals For: 3.14
Goals Against: 2.40
+/-: 0.74

Stats while Pietrangelo isn't on the ice:

Goals For: 2.35
Goals Against: 2.56
+/-: -0.22

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Old
09-18-2011, 06:00 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
GA/60 (On-ice) 2.40
GA/60 (Off-ice) 2.35
Source

GA/60 (On-Ice) 2.40
GA/60 (Off-Ice) 2.56

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#

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Old
09-18-2011, 06:13 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Except the stats show that Carlson faces tougher competition. That's what QualComp and CorsiQoC measure, the strength of competition a player faces when on the ice. Pietrangelo was used in more offensive situations, which often are against the opponents' more defensive forwards, thus the lower levels of competition. Just because he was in a tougher division doesn't mean that he individual faced stronger opponents. Payne sheltered Pietrangelo more than Boudreau sheltered Carlson.
So it is easier to produce offense against defensive forwards?

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Old
09-18-2011, 06:19 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
I watch the Blues (and many other teams) mostly be using streaming sites like myp2p and atdhe. Watched around 10-15 Blues games. I live in Philadelphia, outside of the Caps market, so streaming is necessary to watch just about any non-Flyers hockey. Next season I will likely have Gamecenter Live.
Why lie about it and just be honest. You clearly have not watched the Blues often because your view point proves it. You have to go out of your way to find the Blues games they are not easy to find.

I am a Blues fan that lives out of market. It is not that easy to find Blues games. If I was not a Blues fan then I honestly would not see much point of watching the Blues last season. They were not a good team and they did not play the Flyers or Caps 15 times combined.

Wash at least has a player like Ovi to make fans from other teams seek out his games. The Blues do not have such a player.

You posted wrong stats to support your argument when they are wrong. The Blues were a better team defensively with him on the ice.


Last edited by HooliganX2: 09-18-2011 at 06:36 PM.
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Old
09-18-2011, 06:49 PM
  #181
Mystlyfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grouch View Post
GA/60 (On-Ice) 2.40
GA/60 (Off-Ice) 2.56

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+25+26+27+28#
Doh. Looked in the wrong column. You are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemandan View Post
So it is easier to produce offense against defensive forwards?
I was talking about defensive play. Please read the thread before commenting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Why lie about it and just be honest. You clearly have not watched the Blues often because your view point proves it. You have to go out of your way to find the Blues games they are not easy to find.

I am a Blues fan that lives out of market. It is not that easy to find Blues games. If I was not a Blues fan then I honestly would not see much point of watching the Blues last season. They were not a good team and they did not play the Flyers or Caps 15 times combined.
You apparently didn't try very hard to find them. Many Blues games were on myp2p and other similar streaming sites. Now that myp2p is "on hold," I'm going for gamecenter live next season.
I didn't just watch Caps and Flyers games. I watched hockey games. Caps were obviously my top priority, but I'd often watch a game (or most of) before/after their games or on off days.

I will confess that when I watched the Blues, it was often because they were playing an interesting opponent. But that doesn't mean I didn't pay attention to the Blues.

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Old
09-18-2011, 06:52 PM
  #182
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So now that we established that you had a brain fart, can we just end this whole thing until the season starts? November 29th just became a more interesting game.

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Old
09-18-2011, 07:33 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
That's all well and good, but at the same time, your argument fails as well.

Let's say a Leafs fan (because we know they will) offers a deal like Bradley Ross for Tarasenko.

Are you telling me you wouldn't use the fact that Tarasenko was selected 27 picks before Ross as a reason not to do that deal?
I wouldn't use that as justification. I'd point to how his point totals in the KHL have been on par/better than those of Malkin/Ovechkin when they were his age, and that's with him receiving third line minutes last year. Or I'd point to his dominant WJC performance. Not to his draft position.

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09-18-2011, 07:57 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
I wouldn't use that as justification. I'd point to how his point totals in the KHL have been on par/better than those of Malkin/Ovechkin when they were his age, and that's with him receiving third line minutes last year. Or I'd point to his dominant WJC performance. Not to his draft position.
Why compare his KHL numbers to 2 players who didn't play in that league? Why not compare his numbers to Kuznetsov who played in the same league last year at a (slightly) younger age, and put up better numbers than Tarasenko?

Now I think for sure that Tarasenko is the better prospect, but if you are going to use goal/assist totals as a basis it seems to me that a player who played in the same league, in the same year, is a better comp than 2 guys who played in a different league 5 or 6 years ago.

One of the reasons I can use to say that Tarasenko is the better prospect is that he went 10 spots higher in the draft. Now, 3 years from now that may be a lousy reason when we see how both guys progress, but right now we know that the Blues thought that Tarasenko was the better player because they had the choice of both and picked Vlad.

A few years out a guy's draft position doesn't mean much, but for the first couple it does.

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Old
09-18-2011, 08:33 PM
  #185
bleedblue1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Why compare his KHL numbers to 2 players who didn't play in that league? Why not compare his numbers to Kuznetsov who played in the same league last year at a (slightly) younger age, and put up better numbers than Tarasenko?

Now I think for sure that Tarasenko is the better prospect, but if you are going to use goal/assist totals as a basis it seems to me that a player who played in the same league, in the same year, is a better comp than 2 guys who played in a different league 5 or 6 years ago.

One of the reasons I can use to say that Tarasenko is the better prospect is that he went 10 spots higher in the draft. Now, 3 years from now that may be a lousy reason when we see how both guys progress, but right now we know that the Blues thought that Tarasenko was the better player because they had the choice of both and picked Vlad.

A few years out a guy's draft position doesn't mean much, but for the first couple it does.
Way to bash Tarasenko in a thread not about him and comparing him to a player not even in your hypothetical proposal in Kuzetsov.

Besides we all know that Tarasenko comes at a discount because we don't know if he will ever come over here and actually play.


Last edited by bleedblue1223: 09-18-2011 at 09:00 PM.
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Old
09-18-2011, 08:40 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
I was talking about defensive play. Please read the thread before commenting.
My mistake. After 3 pages or so I started skimming instead of reading every single word.

That said, I'm not prepared to trust stats for defensive play. Too many factors that won't be accounted for.

It looks like there is accounting for which zone the face-off is in, but does it factor in which team wins the face-off, who else is on the ice on your team, who is in goal?

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Old
09-18-2011, 09:19 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Why compare his KHL numbers to 2 players who didn't play in that league? Why not compare his numbers to Kuznetsov who played in the same league last year at a (slightly) younger age, and put up better numbers than Tarasenko?

Now I think for sure that Tarasenko is the better prospect, but if you are going to use goal/assist totals as a basis it seems to me that a player who played in the same league, in the same year, is a better comp than 2 guys who played in a different league 5 or 6 years ago.

One of the reasons I can use to say that Tarasenko is the better prospect is that he went 10 spots higher in the draft. Now, 3 years from now that may be a lousy reason when we see how both guys progress, but right now we know that the Blues thought that Tarasenko was the better player because they had the choice of both and picked Vlad.

A few years out a guy's draft position doesn't mean much, but for the first couple it does.
Because those are comparable players playing in a comparable league? Kuznetsov, as far as I can tell, had more time on the powerplay. And I think Tarasenko was injured for part of the season. I could be incorrect

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Old
09-19-2011, 09:50 AM
  #188
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I can't believe this thread is still going! It started out as a brutal trade proposal. Then turned into, my team is giving up the best players and the ones we get back suck. Then it turns into a Carlson vs. Pietrangelo pissing match. Both players are great young dman, playing in different conference and different systems, it like comparing apples to a giraffe.

Here's the thing to me, they are both(technically) finishing their first years as pros and the realistic judgements should be held off until after this year. What if both suffer from terrible sophomore slumps and get outscored by Schenn. Then leafs fans will say Schenn is the better offensive dman and that he should be crowned king dingle-ling(may have already happened in Hindsight).

All that I'm trying to say is that it is futile to pick the better player after one good year. Let them establish themselves, then make a good comparable argument. Until then both fanbases are just spinning their tires. Now I'm waiting for this thread to turn into a: Tarasenko vs. Kusnetsov debate

Edit: it looks like that is already happening

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Old
09-19-2011, 01:06 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Meatwagon View Post
I can't believe this thread is still going! It started out as a brutal trade proposal. Then turned into, my team is giving up the best players and the ones we get back suck. Then it turns into a Carlson vs. Pietrangelo pissing match. Both players are great young dman, playing in different conference and different systems, it like comparing apples to a giraffe.

Here's the thing to me, they are both(technically) finishing their first years as pros and the realistic judgements should be held off until after this year. What if both suffer from terrible sophomore slumps and get outscored by Schenn. Then leafs fans will say Schenn is the better offensive dman and that he should be crowned king dingle-ling(may have already happened in Hindsight).

All that I'm trying to say is that it is futile to pick the better player after one good year. Let them establish themselves, then make a good comparable argument. Until then both fanbases are just spinning their tires. Now I'm waiting for this thread to turn into a: Tarasenko vs. Kusnetsov debate

Edit: it looks like that is already happening
Lets just go back to yelling NERDS! at people.

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