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Avs get Konowalchuk

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Old
10-22-2003, 07:14 PM
  #26
Jon Burke
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Originally Posted by Super_Joe
I know the Canucks are getting better every year but , they aren't a playoff team IMO.
TROLL ALERT.

Please explain why you think that the Canucks aren't a playoff team. I have no problem with you posting here and you can even criticize the Canucks, but do explain why you think so please.

Thank you.

 
Old
10-22-2003, 07:16 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by quat
It doesn't really look like goal is the position the Avs are struggling with. Is Konowalchuck better than Battaglia? I remember him being great on that shut down line. It would seem that he is an upgrade, in that he is a veteran presence.
Konowalchuk is better than Battaglia, but not by THAT much. Certainly not enough to justify throwing in a good prospect like Johansson. I know prospects have proven zilcho and I've even used that argument a few times myself, but I think prospects hold some value because of their potential. And Battaglia and Johansson's value could fetch more than Konowalchuk, who is not a huge upgrade over Battaglia, IMO.

 
Old
10-22-2003, 07:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BeantownBilly
Arvedson?? hehe
My thoughts exactly. Arvedson is not gritty. Maybe in comparison to other Europeans he is, but in comparison to a lot of NHLers, he's quite soft.

I like his good defensive play, though. We could use a few more players like him who know their way around in their own end and can put up some points.

 
Old
10-22-2003, 07:41 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Danrik
My thoughts exactly. Arvedson is not gritty. Maybe in comparison to other Europeans he is, but in comparison to a lot of NHLers, he's quite soft.

I like his good defensive play, though. We could use a few more players like him who know their way around in their own end and can put up some points.
Definitely.

Magnus Arvedson is among the top 10 wingers in the league when it comes to defensive ability and awareness. However, to imply that Arvedson is gritty and Dan Hinote is not, much like BCF did, is an absolute joke.

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10-22-2003, 10:02 PM
  #30
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Commenting on the Avs versus Canucks' toughness(try and stay with me here)

I think the Canucks have more guys who are gritty than the Avs do, but I think the gritty guys the Avs have are grittier than the gritty guys the Canucks have. :p If that makes any sense. For example, Cummins and Worrell are tougher customers than anyone on the Canucks. But that's two tough players as opposed to the several the Canucks have.

Super Joe, I'm not going to make wild proclamations and say the Canucks are better than the Avalanche, but the Canucks are certainly a playoff team. They improve every year; 4 games, to 6, to 14. That shows steady improvement. And didn't our games played in the playoffs last year double the Avalanche's?

I'm not saying the Canucks are better, but you're no better than BCF when you make such huge detractory statements to the Canucks...

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10-22-2003, 10:36 PM
  #31
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I like Steve Konawalchuk but I didn't like this trade. They didn't give Bates Battaglia much of a chance before they decided to ship him out. The Avs lose yet another touted prospect in Johanson, but they still have a rookie coach and an inexperienced goalie tandem. Something just doesn't sit well with me regarding this team and it's not a team that I would be particularly confident in. When you change the personell that drastically, it takes awhile before the team finds a unified identity and by that time, it may be too late to recover from that.

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10-22-2003, 10:43 PM
  #32
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Tanguay/Skoula is going to be shipped out before you know for a G or another G... Cujo??

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10-22-2003, 10:53 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by PhillyNucksFan
Tanguay/Skoula is going to be shipped out before you know for a G or another G... Cujo??
*grin*

Silly 'Nuck fan.

The Red Wings will not get *one damn thing* of value in return for Curtis. He will rot in the AHL for a while until around Christmas times rumors will come back up. He'll eventually find a team and choke again come playoff time.

That's just how Cujo is.

Keep in mind that Joseph is familiar with a stint in the minors with a stint in Las Vegas prior to his Edmontan arrival.

Your idea on the Avs trading those two for Joseph is ridiculous.

If anything, today's trade signifies that Pierre Lacroix and George McPhee are indeed on each other's speed dial, and come deadline time... Olaf Kolzig could *indeed* be an Av. I'd part with Tanguay, Skoula and Sauve for Kolzig and a decent defenseman. With Kolzig earning $6.75 M this year and the Caps likely shopping Jaromir Jagr as well, they could look to dump salary in the Avs way.

I'm sorry, but throw Kolzig on the Avs and the annual acquisiton of a defenseman(Bourque-Blake-Kaspairaitisisisiisisisisisisi-Morris-Marchment), there will be a solid defender acquired... the Avalanche could be a *frighteningly* dangerous team.

All speculation though, compadre.

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Old
10-22-2003, 11:37 PM
  #34
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^Something we agree on. He's playing in the AHL at $8 million for goodness' sakes. However, if Avs fans think that Theodore will come for Tanguay and/or Skoula, they've got another thing coming, especially given how Theo's been looking of late. The whole Habs team for that matter.

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10-23-2003, 01:21 AM
  #35
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The Avs probably have enough grit when you consider guys like Foote and Blake. However their true toughness is tied up in two players -Cummins and Worrell. The problem here is that neither can really play hockey - especially Cummins. You can't play them both without totally screwing up your 4th line. All you can really do is park one of them on the bench and wheel them out if someone begins to take liberities with your stars. If you use them much more than that you get into serious penalty problems or big trouble in your own end.

Thus it's difficult to play a gritty, four line, in your face style. What grit the Canucks do have can actually play well enough - such as May - so as not to hurt you elsewhere. I would say that, in the end, the Canucks have more grit that can actually play.

The big problem in Colorado is obviously between the pipes. From what I saw of Sauve vs. the Oilers he is totally not ready. He is down on everything and leaves the top of the net absolutely exposed. Reminded me of Brochu. He was horrible. Any game he plays in this year will be up for grabs. It won't take long your NHL shooters to get the book on this guy. That means that Aebisher will have to carry the load. That's bad news for the Avs. He is not that good to start with and he has never had to play the amount that will be required of him this year. He grind down as the year goes on. Without goaltending no team goes anywhere.

Probably PL will make a move to shore this huge deficiency. Probably the key to the Avs season is whether PL can work out a deal that brings in someone more adequate without giving up too much.

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10-23-2003, 04:46 AM
  #36
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Wow so they traded Battaglia who they were playing 10 minutes a game for Konowalchuk who'll do the the same. They are nearly the same player.

And it doesn't fix the fundamental problem the Avs have....depth. It was a one for one deal up front and they've now lost Kariya for a time and once again LaCroix decides to throw in his first round pick from 2002.

Is Konowalchuk + 3rd throw in really worth Battaglia AND a 20 year old first round pick in 2002? I don't think so. A good deal by Washington who cut a bit of salary and they also have bigger problems to solve but a good deal nonetheless.

You think LaCroix would like to have the talented Vrbata who he traded for Battaglia, in the lineup now with Kariya injured? Or perhaps Reinprecht and even Nedorost.
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10-23-2003, 06:20 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
The Canucks did play 7 games more than the Avs in the playoffs LAST year . If you want to go back a couple years then I can but , there's no need .
Sorry, I'm confused...what were you saying here?

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10-23-2003, 07:21 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeantownBilly
Arvedson?? hehe
Ask Barret Jackman how gritty Magnus Arvedson is Absolutely crushed him into the boards last night.

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10-23-2003, 07:34 AM
  #39
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Arvedson played very gritty last night. I think he plays a gritty game, but doesn't hang around in it too much. He'll get in the corners, but doesn't get involved in the stupid stuff, which perhaps gives the illusion that he is not gritty.

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10-23-2003, 08:19 AM
  #40
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Colorado gave up far too much in trading a former 1st round draft pick, but don't even compare Konawalchuk and Battaglia. Konawalchuk is one of the best character players and gritty defensive 3rd liners in the league. Battaglia is a player that didn't fit for the Avs as he's not going to play in the top six, and is miscast as a checking line player. Just because Bates had a couple decent years on the BBC line in Carolina doesn't make him a budding power forward. Trust me, any GM in the NHL would rather have Konawalchuk than Battaglia.

The only thing that should bother Avs fans is Konawalchuk's injury prone nature and the fact yet another good young player has been shipped out by Lacroix. However, the Avs now have an excellent shutdown 3rd line of Nikolishin, Konawalchuk, and Hahl. Granato can now comfortably roll 3 lines on a regular basis. The 4th line is horrible however (until Svatos returns).

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10-23-2003, 09:17 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Super_Joe
"The Canucks did play 7 games more than the Avs in the playoffs LAST year . If you want to go back a couple years then I can but , there's no need ."

Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead17
Sorry, I'm confused...what were you saying here?

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I think he's probably referring to the 2001 playoffs when the Avalanche SWEPT the Canucks in the 1st round.

 
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10-23-2003, 10:25 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ColAvsFan
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
"The Canucks did play 7 games more than the Avs in the playoffs LAST year . If you want to go back a couple years then I can but , there's no need ."


I think he's probably referring to the 2001 playoffs when the Avalanche SWEPT the Canucks in the 1st round.
And the Canucks of 2001 are comparable to the present day Canucks how?

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10-24-2003, 09:36 PM
  #43
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I am a big Canucks fan, but I actually believe that the Avs are better than the Canucks.
I think it is only a matter of time before their new players start to click.
Getting Konawalchuk to me means that they are looking for a player to put them over the top. The Kariya injury doesn't help matters, but it is early in the season and they have a lot of depth.

This move means that they are ready to morgage the future for the present. This is a gamble, but sinse Forsberg is leaving the club in the not too distant future, the gamble may be worth it.

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10-25-2003, 01:39 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Over on the Avs board, there are lot's of comments relating to the Avs present lack of grit (whether it means anything or not is debated!), and the fact that Forsberg pisses all you guys off when he dives. You are correct that Cooke did draw a fine for diving, but does that realisticly convince anyone that Cooke dives more than Forsberg? And being that he got called earlier than someone else means...? What exactly? I got my speeding ticket in June, but you got your speeding ticket in September... therefore I speed more than you! Makes complete sense. :p
Forsberg never got fined for diving, so based on your argument, Cooke got a speeding ticket while Forsberg never got pulled over.

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10-25-2003, 01:45 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by tantalum
Wow so they traded Battaglia who they were playing 10 minutes a game for Konowalchuk who'll do the the same. They are nearly the same player.

And it doesn't fix the fundamental problem the Avs have....depth. It was a one for one deal up front and they've now lost Kariya for a time and once again LaCroix decides to throw in his first round pick from 2002.

Is Konowalchuk + 3rd throw in really worth Battaglia AND a 20 year old first round pick in 2002? I don't think so. A good deal by Washington who cut a bit of salary and they also have bigger problems to solve but a good deal nonetheless.

You think LaCroix would like to have the talented Vrbata who he traded for Battaglia, in the lineup now with Kariya injured? Or perhaps Reinprecht and even Nedorost.
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Battaglia and Konowalchuk aren't even close to being the same player. Yes they are both bottom 2 line guys, but Kono never takes a shift off and plays very well on the PK while Bates can't even string together a couple good games in a row and doesn't contribute offensively or defensively (to the Avs, was good in the playoffs for Canes). I think the Avs overpaid, but this trade will help them dramatically in the PK and leadership departments.

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10-25-2003, 04:34 AM
  #46
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I realise Konowalchuk is a better player but they are still both third liners and the difference isn't great enough to make a tangible difference for the Avs IMO. Konowalchuk is not a main penalty killer. He had about 1 minute a game last year in that role. He's a second unit penalty killer at best as Battaglia is. They don't gain much there. Konowalchuk never takes a shift off? I wouldn't say that. I really used to like him as a player but frankly his quality of play has been on the decline for the past couple of seasons. Maybe that changes with a new team but I don't see a third line player having any sort of major effect for the Avs. Atleast not the needed one.

Leadership? Is this not the team with Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne, Blake and Foote? If the Avs need more leadership in a room full of those veterans with their resumes and Konowalchuk makes a difference the Avs truly are in trouble. Those are your leaders...if they aren't leading the team is going nowhere fast.

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