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Doughty for Hall

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Old
09-18-2011, 10:56 PM
  #101
SDig14
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Well, when I look at the past Cup champions, there hasn't been a single winner without a star forward, yet there has been winners without a top 5 Norris candidate defenseman.

Carolina, Pittsburgh, and Tampa all seemed to find ways to do it with star forwards and solid defense. On the flip side, other teams have won with guys like Lidstrom, Chara, Keith, etc.

I don't think anyone in their right mind will debate whether Doughty is an elite superstar d-man at a young age, but Hall is the face of our franchise, our potential all-star leader, and is our only forward with 90+ point potential IMO.

There are a lot of factors besides pure trade value in this deal. If I was starting a new team I might lean towards Doughty, but we have too much invested in Hall for our future right now.

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09-19-2011, 12:56 AM
  #102
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Edmonton fan here. Value-wise, Doughty for Hall is a deal that the Oilers have to accept. That said, I wouldnt. If Doughty is disgruntled in LA, why would be content if shipped off to Edmonton? Way safer for Edmonton to grow their own core than acquire major pieces from other times imo (esp. at the expense of a kid likely to turn out as a hell of a player)

Wouldnt do it.

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09-19-2011, 01:45 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
Well, when I look at the past Cup champions, there hasn't been a single winner without a star forward, yet there has been winners without a top 5 Norris candidate defenseman.

Carolina, Pittsburgh, and Tampa all seemed to find ways to do it with star forwards and solid defense. On the flip side, other teams have won with guys like Lidstrom, Chara, Keith, etc.

I don't think anyone in their right mind will debate whether Doughty is an elite superstar d-man at a young age, but Hall is the face of our franchise, our potential all-star leader, and is our only forward with 90+ point potential IMO.

There are a lot of factors besides pure trade value in this deal. If I was starting a new team I might lean towards Doughty, but we have too much invested in Hall for our future right now.
Boston doesn't really have a star forward they have some good forwards but no real superstar. New Jersey won a few cups with no star forward either. One player doesn't win you the cup a team wins the cup. Your argument really doesn't hold water.

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Old
09-19-2011, 02:24 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Boston doesn't really have a star forward they have some good forwards but no real superstar. New Jersey won a few cups with no star forward either. One player doesn't win you the cup a team wins the cup. Your argument really doesn't hold water.
Touche but I would rather have Hall he brings more excitement to watch as a player And Doughty seems to think he can hold a team hostage no thanks.

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09-19-2011, 03:09 AM
  #105
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Well for now Doughty > Hall, and most likely into the future as well.

However, Hall is "ours", he is the face of the franchise and whether or not he turns out to be better than Doughty, his lot is cast with the Oilers franchise.

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09-19-2011, 06:22 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by teiam View Post
Doughty is a 'fan' of LA isn't he? And they are having a hard time coming to an agreement.. Hall seems like he really wants to be with Edmonton... Edmonton needs to stay away from any difficult negotiation players if possible.
Lately I've read this so much that I cant take it anymore. Its so ridiculous.

I'm not saying Hall or any other player will have these problems as well, but come back when these players are up for a new contract. I dont know, you dont know.

Yes Doughty seems to like LA but he will like it even more with some extra $$ in his pocket.

and I can fully understand why no Oiler fan would trade Hall for Doughty. Not because the value isnt there but its so much nicer to draft the face of the franchise yourself.

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09-19-2011, 06:33 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
Well, when I look at the past Cup champions, there hasn't been a single winner without a star forward, yet there has been winners without a top 5 Norris candidate defenseman.
Pretty much every NHL team has a star forward, not every team but most have. The odds that a team wins the cup without a star forward are mostly slim to none. Boston was probably the exception to this rule, but they do have Chara on the backline. The odds that a team wins the cup without an elite defenseman is more logical. Elite defensemen are far more difficult to come by.

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09-19-2011, 11:18 AM
  #108
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no thanks rather keep hall and offers sheet doughty
I'm sure LA would love you to offersheet him so they can match it instead of having to negotiate with him.

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09-19-2011, 12:30 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Doughty is an absolute stud, however Hall is already the face of the Oilers, generally speaking when stuff like this breaks down you won't see a superstar for superstar trade particularly when the superstars involved are 20 and 21 years old respectively. I would open up the vaults and trade all kinds of value for Doughty, but I would not be trading Hall or RNH for him (FTR LA is already loaded at center so they'd much prefer Hall to RNH).

I would offer our 2012 1st ++ for Doughty in trade, but making this trade is going ass backwards in too many ways.
Fixed.

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09-19-2011, 12:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Paradingwolves View Post
I'm sure LA would love you to offersheet him so they can match it instead of having to negotiate with him.
7.25M x 4 yrs .. LA would have no choice but match it since the compensation would only be 2 1sts + 2nd +3rd. Works out perfect for Doughty. Lombardi not so much.

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09-19-2011, 01:06 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
7.25M x 4 yrs .. LA would have no choice but match it since the compensation would only be 2 1sts + 2nd +3rd. Works out perfect for Doughty. Lombardi not so much.
Yeah Lombardi has said he won't pay him more than Kopitar, but if it were an offersheet he would and he'd be able to do so without disrespecting Kopitar. So I think this would actually be perfect for Lombardi honestly.

But I honestly don't think Doughty is worth what he's asking for just yet.

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09-19-2011, 01:16 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Paradingwolves View Post
Yeah Lombardi has said he won't pay him more than Kopitar, but if it were an offersheet he would and he'd be able to do so without disrespecting Kopitar. So I think this would actually be perfect for Lombardi honestly.But I honestly don't think Doughty is worth what he's asking for just yet.
It would definately not be 'perfect for Lombardi' considering the length and the amount of the contract but it would get the job done for him.
Agree that Doughty is not going to be worth what he'll make for atleast the next 2-3 yrs especially if it crosses the 6.5M mark.

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09-19-2011, 01:47 PM
  #113
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I won't get into the "who's more valuable" debate, but as an Oiler fan I wouldn't trade Hall because of what he means to Oiler fans. And honestly, without him, we are once again guaranteed to have the worst offense in the league in my eyes. I also wouldn't trade Nugent-Hopkins, simply because he doesn't have the value in this trade that he will to the Oilers. You can say that about a few other players, but I think RNH wouldn't be valued highly be LA, they don't want prospects, they want guys who can jump in right away, and Nugent-Hopkins probably wouldn't be able to make the Kings roster.

I think a Pajaarvi and Whitney + deal would be a good start. Not enough, but a start. Maybe Pajaarvi, Whitney, Omark (or another similarly valued piece) and a conditional 1st in 2013 (Kings and Oilers swap unless Oilers pick is lower, 2013 2nd pick goes to LA if Oilers pick is lower). I know LA fans won't like any deal for Doughty as much as I wouldn't like any proposals for Hall, but I think this would be a fair place to start IF Doughty was actually available and IF Tambellini and Lombardi weren't already feuding.

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Old
09-19-2011, 10:36 PM
  #114
SDig14
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Boston doesn't really have a star forward they have some good forwards but no real superstar. New Jersey won a few cups with no star forward either. One player doesn't win you the cup a team wins the cup. Your argument really doesn't hold water.
Well, you really only looked at 1 part of the entire argument. It's pretty obvious no one player wins a cup and that elite defensemen are harder to find these days, but even if you find just as many examples of teams winning without a star forward as winning without a star D, you are still asking a rebuilding franchise to trade away the face of the their franchise, a kid that was born in Alberta and seems to like it here, for a guy that is holding out of training camp for a new contract.

Like I said earlier, a lot more factors other than value in this deal, and we have too much invested in Hall regardless of how much impact a star D or forward make on an eventual cup winning team.

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